Underwhelming 7D review from Dpreview

[The Davinator]

Nope,

D300s native ISO is 200 so this would hamper the D300s.

You must gear the test to favor the Nikon so it would have to be 9 bracketed frames or something if AF so that we can show just how superior the Nikon AF is. wink wink

There is only one AF test that I'm interested in and I think I'll go to my local shop and do it.

Put my Nikkor 50 f1.2 on the 7D with AF confirm adapter and see how accurate the focus is at 1.2.

Funny how people like to list specs all the time, count numbers of AF, number of bracket.

Personally, I want Nikon to give my an AF with 12 million AF cross sensor points. I want to scroll and select just the pixel I want because per-pixel sharpness is so critical for me

I always have fun with these comparisons. Really...for most work, at normal sizes, no one could tell the difference between these cameras....and nor should they care.

As to pixel sharpness....I want to view each pixel filling the LCD....I want to see the bucket in this well we keep hearing about!

Put both on a tripod, mount excellent glass on each, photograph a landscape at iso 100, and print to 20x30. Compare.

See....wasn't that easy?

 

[bloomoose]

I find the OP´s assumptions very interesting and if they point towards dpreview being less thorough with their reviews, I would love to see Phil commenting on this.
--
Greetings from Germany,
Pam



Some of my casual D3 images @ Stany´s photoforum
http://www.fotografie-forum.be/n3-galleryPMeier-1.htm

 

[Kevin Peters]

Here we go again with your learning disability! I never said I'd post Canon soft images, I said I took some with the 7D and looked soft, like most Canons do.

Canon BOY, why dont you just go back to your Canon forum and leave us all alone with your inaccurate assumptions. Go play with your 7D--lol

You got caught lying about your "test" regarding the Canon 7D soft images, I'm still waiting for your "test"

As Tom pointed out you make up things, unbelievable!! You must either be
a) psychotic

Ouch, whatever you say Nikon boy, you should go seek helps if you still blindly follow him

b) have an extreme learning disability

From a guy you can't read and comprehend, it must be true

c) please just do us ALL a favor and go back to your little 7D forum, you add nothing here whatsoever!

Good Day Canon BOY!
lol

"LOL" are you 15 years old?

Everything posted on the internet must be true, your level of ignorance just amazes me.

CANON FANBOY--

I am finding many of reviews that are quiet negative on the 7D, maybe you should return yours?? I think you are a want to be NIKON BOY!
Look
http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=870853

Quote from the review

"Canon says it consulted with 5000 photographers for the design of the EOS 7D, its most feature packed DSLR camera yet. David Kilpatrick finds out if they got it right"

The review was written by David Kilpatrick, just incase you don't know this person is, he's the biggest Sony fanboy in the world, while his knowledge about photography is amazing but his bias againsts everything not Sony is well known in the Sony DSLR forum before he got banned, but ofcourse you don't know that, because the Nikon religion brainwashed you to believe otherwise.

and another!
http://darwinwiggett.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/the-canon-7d/
and another! This time focus problems

Wow, if I can get a penny for every so call "review" I would be very rich by now, for every negative review about the 7D, I can find 5 positive reviews about the 7D beating the D300s hand down, but since we at the DPR, the most influential website in the world about digital photography, why don't we take a look at their SCIENTIFIC TESTS, shall we?

Noise test
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos7d/page15.asp

To see your beloved D300s blows away as ISO goes higher is heart breaking i know, but again since you're so blind following Nikon God I thought I would let you know
Image test
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos7d/page22.asp

Once again, it looks like Nikon cranked up its NR to make Nikon extremist like you to beleive that less noise is better, but it's actually not, the D300s exhibits more noise and A LOT LESS details. A 18M sensor that kills the 12M sensor in both noise and details is an amazing accomplishment if you ask me

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos7d/page21.asp

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=33495689
and apparently the video has problems too!

What problem? Reading is not your strong suite is it? My 6 year old boy can read and comprehend better than that, but if that was true, the 7D video is still amazingly better than the mee-too D300s crippled video features

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1019&thread=33651188

I dont see review like this on a D300s

Ofcourse you don't because there's a lot more 7D users than D300s, who would buy a D300s when you can get the 7D cheaper as a system? you have to pay more than 2 grants to get to the same fps with the 7D, with crippled video features...etc and by the way, Canon users are not like Nikon users, we don't worship a camera company, we're more critical with our cameras and we don't afraid to voice our dissatisfaction with a company let alone a camera

 

[Tom Christiansen]

Thanks for everyone’s help; posters who’ve been rude,insulting,lying,or simply illegible are all now on my ignore list.

• 1: 7D effective pixel density is 5 MP/cm² not 3¼ MP/cm² like D300; base ISO only half as sensitive as Nikon and raw sensor noise (chroma,grey‐patch) notably worse. DPR chroma‐noise graphs at calibrated sensitivities show:

C (n/a) ≠ N “100”
C (n/a) ≠ N 200
C 100 ≅ N 250
C 200 ≅ N 400
C 400 ≅ N 550
C 800 ≅ N 1100
C 1600 ≅ N 1800
C 2000 ≅ N 2000
C 2500 ≅ N 2200
C 3200 ≅ N 2500
C “4000” ≅ N 3200

• 2: Camera speed at mercy of battery level per 7D PDF: “When battery level is low, continuous shooting speed will be slightly slower.”
• 3: Merely 19+0 selectable AF points, not 15+36 as on Nikon pro lines
• 4: Canon’s AF range 1½ EV narrower than Nikon’s
• 5: Supports center‐spot metering (1 point) only, not true spot metering linked to any of 51 AF points
• 6: Can’t assign spot/center/matrix metering to a button
• 7: Can’t decouple AF‐L from AE‐L in AF‐S shooting, like on P&S; on Nikon they are by default decoupled
• 8: Mirror‐up buried in menus and cannot be assigned a button
• 9: Only one preset white balance supported not four, and cannot assign name to preset as on Nikon
• 10: Setting of manual/preset white balance exceedingly complicated
• 11: Can’t assign white balance preset measuring to a button
• 12: Can’t make AE lock sticky across multiple shots without holding button; Nikon AE‐L Hold does this
• 13: Very limited bracketing support totally unsuitable for HDR work; works more like P&S; cannot assign bracketing to a button; limited to 3 exposures only ⅓,½ EV apart; Nikon shoots 9 frames ⅓,½,⅔,1 EV apart with unattended shooting
• 14: Can’t bracket flash exposure and cannot use exposure bracketing at all if flash enabled
• 15: Can’t use manual mode with exposure bracketing
• 16: Because you cannot use autoexposure lock in manual mode to lock current auto‐ISO setting, AE lock does not actually lock exposure in manual mode
• 17: Can’t use exposure compensation in manual mode to bias meter
• 18: Any flexible‐program shift in P mode cancelled by every single shutter release
• 19: Flexible‐program shift in P mode cannot be used with flash
• 20: Timer does not lock autoexposure so must use separate eyepiece cover
• 21: Flash‐sync to 1/250s not to 1/320s
• 22: Little control of flash for balanced fill‐flash vs subject illumination
• 23: LCD panel blacks out at power off, including auto power off, but Nikon never auto powers off nor costs you not to & on manual power off continues to display shots remaining on memory card
• 24: No AF assist light separate from popup
• 25: No built‐in interval timer, thus no unattended shooting
• 26: Auto‐display of last shot not full review mode, eg, “Magnified view is not possible during the image review immediately after the image is taken.”
• 27: Can’t pick own 3-letter filename prefix, stuck with IMG_ for sRGB and silly MG for AdobeRGB; Nikon allows full XYZ_ and XYZ selection
• 28: No matrix metering for non‐CPU lenses because cannot set aperture and focal length for non‐CPU lenses
• 29: Per 30D review: “Picture Style tone curve not indicated in camera menu (contrast is an offset, not absolute)”
• 30: Can’t assign names to user‐defined picture styles on Canon, but can on Nikon
• 31: No automatic in‐body correction of lateral chromatic aberrations, so at mercy of lens’s color fringing and sharpness loss
• 32: 7D supports 3 user memories which you change fly without changing memorized values as annoyingly occurs on Nikon, but Nikon’s banks more flexible because can save and load banks from card, assign names to all 8 banks, and separately apply 4 shooting banks + 4 settings banks to any of PSAM modes for 64 possibilities
• 33: Only 26 custom functions, not 48
• 34: Highly restricted edit/retouch menu on Canon compared with Nikon and applicable to printing only; does not create new, edited image
• 35: No support for in‐camera raw‐file editing as on D300s
• 36: No one‐touch zoom to AF point
• 37: No support for multiple dust‐reference images because current dust‐ref data are embedded in each raw image
• 38: No support for standard time; neither TZ offset nor DST flag is recorded so impossible to collate images on standard time; even P&S cameras often do this better
• 39: No MRU recent settings menu
• 40: Can’t save or load camera settings using memory card
• 41: Mode dial has 3 user setting modes (C1,C2,C3), 2 automatic modes (Auto,C‐Auto), and 5 others (P,Tv,Av,M,B); most positions lock out access to various settings changes and buttons
• 42: Custom (preset) white balance records measured WB only between 2k and 10k Kelvin (p70 7D PDF) instead of actual measured red/blue levels if outside that range
• 43: Setting WB to Kelvin temp does not follow mired increments only uneven 100K increments, so on Nikon is 31 even steps, but on Canon is 76 uneven ones
• 44: More long‐exposure noise; NR kicks in for exposures ≥1s (≥8s on D300) but Canon warns setting to On may be less effective at ISO ≥1600 than setting to Off or Auto
• 45: High ISO NR may not be reflected in playback view: “If you playback a RAW or RAW+JPEG image with the camera or print image directly, effect of high ISO speed noise reduction may look minimal. You can check noise reduction effect or print noise‐reduced images with Digital Photo Professional (provided software).” (p208 7D PDF)
• 46: No TIFF support; Nikon supports raws at 2 bit‐depths (12- and 14-bit) at 3 compressions (none, lossless, compressed), jpeg in 3 sizes (small, medium, large) at 3 compressions (basic, normal, fine) and 2 styles (size priority vs optimal quality), so will record NEF (6 formats), JPEG (18 formats), NEF+JPEG (72 combos), or TIFF (1)

--tom

 

[dennis tennis]

Ha ha.. agreed

What we should devise a testing proceudre whereby we can ook into each photobucket and count the photons. Tell the photons to stay put, check that there are no neutrinos free loading on these buckets, taking up space and pushing out a photon. I don't want homeless neutrinos squatting on my sensors.Only then, do we tell the cameras to count the photons and flush.

After flushing, I want to check to make sure all the old photons are flushed away, much as I do when I check my toilet after doing number 2. All gone, nice and clean Ready for another load.

Until DPR can come up with type of detailed testing, I have to conclude that I can't trust their results.

We have to accont for quantum uncertainy and slightly parallel near universe because their will be photons that have equal chance to going into one bucket versus another and we would to make sure we collapse the probabilly function.

Nope,

D300s native ISO is 200 so this would hamper the D300s.

You must gear the test to favor the Nikon so it would have to be 9 bracketed frames or something if AF so that we can show just how superior the Nikon AF is. wink wink

There is only one AF test that I'm interested in and I think I'll go to my local shop and do it.

Put my Nikkor 50 f1.2 on the 7D with AF confirm adapter and see how accurate the focus is at 1.2.

Funny how people like to list specs all the time, count numbers of AF, number of bracket.

Personally, I want Nikon to give my an AF with 12 million AF cross sensor points. I want to scroll and select just the pixel I want because per-pixel sharpness is so critical for me

I always have fun with these comparisons. Really...for most work, at normal sizes, no one could tell the difference between these cameras....and nor should they care.

As to pixel sharpness....I want to view each pixel filling the LCD....I want to see the bucket in this well we keep hearing about!

Put both on a tripod, mount excellent glass on each, photograph a landscape at iso 100, and print to 20x30. Compare.

See....wasn't that easy?

 

[Tom Christiansen]

I find the OP´s assumptions very interesting and if they point towards dpreview being less thorough with their reviews, I would love to see Phil commenting on this.

Thanks. I appreciate that now and then someone sees through to the point.

Please let me be perfectly clear: I mean no disrespect to the DPR staff, and I find their reviews useful in many ways, just not in all. I found Phil's reviews to pay closer attention to real-world handling issues and to be more aware of how this compared across vendor lines than we see in current reviews. I miss that.

The current reviewers are different people with different skills and emphases than Phil's, so it is perfectly possible to account for all differences in coverage to nothing more than that alone, and so no pecunious conspiracy theory is needed (nor alas, can be ruled out).

The DPR reviews tell you much, but there is also much that they do not tell you. There's always room for improvement. DPR has constantly improved its reviewing system throughout its history, and I believe they shall continue to do so.

--tom

 

[dennis tennis]

No, Nick was claiming that NIkon is superior because for NIkons when you turn the camera OFF it shows how many shots remaining. IF you dont' have a card, it shows "E". They both show how many shots when ON.

This feature for Nick is one the many defining superiority of the Nikon over Canons.

My response is, I don't need a camera to tell me how many shots it has remaining when the camera is off because my workflow pretty much assure me that my camera either has no card or the card is formatted with maximum capacity remaining. So, my Nikons (Fuji) isn't giving me any "extra value" when it is OFF compared to my Canons or Pany or Olympus.

I'm confused Dennis....every Canon I've ever owned shows how many shots on the LCD on top of the camera. Did I read what you wrote incorrectly?

 

[Tom Christiansen]

Interesting how your message is not getting across.

We call men blind those who cannot see, but there are none so blind as those who will not see.

--tom

 

[AndrewPL]

Just so you know, unless I am missing somthing the 7D is $1800 at amazon and the Nikon D300s (better camera) is only $1550.

The Canon IS NOT better IQ at all, i tested it the other day, still soft Canon images! That's why I left Canon. emoticon - smile "

Did you or did you not "test"? Why are you lying?

And again, you wrote

Agreee, nikon can be high priced at times as can any brand and then adjust accordingly. My test was very unoffical and non-scientific. To me in general all Canon images are soft.

Care to post your findings about "all Canon images are soft"? but wait a minute, you don't have any because you LIE!!!

 

[Tom Christiansen]

Tom's list has some valid points on it. However, there are a lot of mistakes too.

No, there are not, nor ever were there "a lot of mistakes". I have amended my list as possible based on user input and my own investigations. Very few actual errors existed in the original, but a number of points have been clarified.

Anyone who only reads Tom's list will get an incorrect idea about the 7D.

I don't believe that's true. At most, the context is far more on what the Nikon D300 and D300s pro bodies provide over the Canon sub-pro 7D and not coming at it from the other direction. That means it focuses more on what the Nikon shooter would miss on the Canon body.

I specifically exempted user interface issues that would resolve themselves with experience, such as the confusing hieroglyphic menu system on the Canon compared with the clean, language-based, tabbed-menu system of the Nikon. I also mostly ignored the shifting meanings of buttons and their variously limited availability in the highly non-orthogonal Canon UI, since eventually you can overcome this confusing situation.

What I found most curious were the very heavy ad hominem attacks that shot the messenger instead of examining the message's contents. The pathetic insults that I am somehow an angry or depressed person, or one insecure about his camera, are the most revealing of all. I quite assure you nothing could be further from the truth, nor have I any reason to be any of those. Every such sniping insult projected the snipe's own inner hang-ups in a facile and self-revealing way that most of us beyond junior high school all easily recognize.

I think I have served some good here, which was always and only my intent. Even my detractors' coproloquies have been put to good use since they've all been > > ~ /.killfile for good riddance.

Oft evil will will evil mar.

--tom

 

[Kevin Peters]

I had a 20D and was talking about the 7D. I have TONS of 20D images..they are all soft, soft, soft, booring!
Now, go away Canon BOY!
lol

Just so you know, unless I am missing somthing the 7D is $1800 at amazon and the Nikon D300s (better camera) is only $1550.

The Canon IS NOT better IQ at all, i tested it the other day, still soft Canon images! That's why I left Canon. emoticon - smile "

Did you or did you not "test"? Why are you lying?

And again, you wrote

Agreee, nikon can be high priced at times as can any brand and then adjust accordingly. My test was very unoffical and non-scientific. To me in general all Canon images are soft.

Care to post your findings about "all Canon images are soft"? but wait a minute, you don't have any because you LIE!!!

 

[The Davinator]

No, Nick was claiming that NIkon is superior because for NIkons when you turn the camera OFF it shows how many shots remaining. IF you dont' have a card, it shows "E". They both show how many shots when ON.

This feature for Nick is one the many defining superiority of the Nikon over Canons.

My response is, I don't need a camera to tell me how many shots it has remaining when the camera is off because my workflow pretty much assure me that my camera either has no card or the card is formatted with maximum capacity remaining. So, my Nikons (Fuji) isn't giving me any "extra value" when it is OFF compared to my Canons or Pany or Olympus.

I guess it needs to be pointed out that when the camera is off.....no matter how many times one tries to press the shutter button, the # of shots left doesn't really matter.

Great, now I have to throw away my 7D!

Of course, these comments come from the same crowd that shouted full frame isn't necessary....until of course, Nikon got one ;-)

I'm confused Dennis....every Canon I've ever owned shows how many shots on the LCD on top of the camera. Did I read what you wrote incorrectly?

 

[The Davinator]

I had a 20D and was talking about the 7D. I have TONS of 20D images..they are all soft, soft, soft, booring!

Then might I suggest you learn how to use a camera and process the images.

Now, go away Canon BOY!
lol

Just so you know, unless I am missing somthing the 7D is $1800 at amazon and the Nikon D300s (better camera) is only $1550.

The Canon IS NOT better IQ at all, i tested it the other day, still soft Canon images! That's why I left Canon. emoticon - smile "

Did you or did you not "test"? Why are you lying?

And again, you wrote

Agreee, nikon can be high priced at times as can any brand and then adjust accordingly. My test was very unoffical and non-scientific. To me in general all Canon images are soft.

Care to post your findings about "all Canon images are soft"? but wait a minute, you don't have any because you LIE!!!

 

[Tom Christiansen]

Last post.

--tom

 

[AndrewPL]

as many of these have been debunked.....D300s is a yesterday camera Tommy, Canon won this round with the 7D

 

[The Davinator]

...now try a shot at iso 100 or 200, and blow it up to 20x30. Then come back shouting if you still like the D300s better.

Honestly, considering that most people will spend most of their time at the 100, 200, or 400 iso end of the dial, not only is the high iso not much of a badge of honor,....it's not even really relevant for most photographic use.

Picking the best quality settings on each will show the 7D to provide better image quality....not that it really matters consider it only really becomes apparent at 16x24 and larger.