British Photog's have frighting experience in US

[gLeckenby]

David,

I don't trust GWB or his cabinet. Didn't Hitler have a minister of "homeland security"? Stalin did. And how about the AG Ashcroft with his more moral than thou attitude? I'sn't it great that information is hidden from us for our own good? What's being hidden must be the truth about the administration which the polititions are afraid of. But we know how this present administration started... with the subversion of the Florida voting results. "comes the revolution comrade, comes the revolution!". We'll all be sent to the camps for "thinking about things independant of the powers to be", ignored.

A couple of things. Just the fact that someone asks for proof is
not an illigitimate question. In the Muslim world all sorts of
theories abound. The problem with these theroies is Osama bin Laden
himself. All these people listen to Al Jizzera. So Osama gets up
and release three tapes where he did everything but say I did it.
He praised to suicide pilots. He promised more planes, he promised
other attacks. The only thing he actually didn't do was say point
blank that he did it.

No one has to believe the tape the government released. Personally
I do but I would concede that our goverment is capable of forging
such a tape.

What kills me is that the people who listen to Al Jizzera about the
whole thing being a CIA plot etc, who use Al jizzera for all their
news absolutely ignore the intervierws which bin Laden himeself
released.

Finally, I disagree with your last point, "what if we lose." We
can't lose, we're confronted with a handfull of fanatics who are
dangerous to individuals but not a threat to America. This of
course is the difference between WWll and this mess.

I personally am appalled that many Americans are running around in
terror and I'm someone who lives in what was the frozen zone and
saw the towers burn.

Americans are being urged to stand up but the goverment is urging
us to hide under the bed - No questions please - Leave everything
to us - If you question us your aiding the enemy - You're hurting
the war effort and so on ad nauseum.

Dave

One point about 9/11: what I find frightening is that for security
reasons we know nothing about who, how and most important why. No
evidence, no proof, no public hearing.That is not our civilization.

Let me help you

Who: al Qaeda

Proof: The World Trade Center, all there is a now a big hole in
the ground. So I am asking you to believe me that there where
two skyscapers there full of people

Public hearing: Plenty if you choose to read and newspaper.

Why? Well did the Jews ask the **** why they were being sent to a
death camp. Or maybe the **** are evil like al Qaeda.

That is not our civilization

Well you can answer to your new masters, al Qaeda, if we loss.

Bill

 

[William C]

A couple of things. Just the fact that someone asks for proof is
not an illigitimate question.

Proof? The embassy bombing in Africa, the attack on the Cole, the attack of our service personal in Saudi Arabia and the first attack of the first WTC. And let not forget the attack that almost happen in Settle's airport if it was not for quick thinking border patrol officer. If see the same person slaps you in the face do you still question who it and you need proof? So
you still want to ask the govenment who it is?

Americans are being urged to stand up but the goverment is urging
us to hide under the bed - No questions please - Leave everything
to us - If you question us your aiding the enemy - You're hurting
the war effort and so on ad nauseum.

What hell are your talking about. It is the press screaming to the
government "your not telling us"! Then as soon as press finds out about
something, then they go screaming "what are you doing about it", to
the government. It is a Federal law the government must inform the public
of a terrorist threat, no matter how vague it is. Then the press has
a field day with all the speculating on the vague threat. Those cable news
networks have to have some news to talk about for day, then the next
day and so on.

Bill

A couple of things. Just the fact that someone asks for proof is
not an illigitimate question. In the Muslim world all sorts of
theories abound. The problem with these theroies is Osama bin Laden
himself. All these people listen to Al Jizzera. So Osama gets up
and release three tapes where he did everything but say I did it.
He praised to suicide pilots. He promised more planes, he promised
other attacks. The only thing he actually didn't do was say point
blank that he did it.

No one has to believe the tape the government released. Personally
I do but I would concede that our goverment is capable of forging
such a tape.

What kills me is that the people who listen to Al Jizzera about the
whole thing being a CIA plot etc, who use Al jizzera for all their
news absolutely ignore the intervierws which bin Laden himeself
released.

Finally, I disagree with your last point, "what if we lose." We
can't lose, we're confronted with a handfull of fanatics who are
dangerous to individuals but not a threat to America. This of
course is the difference between WWll and this mess.

I personally am appalled that many Americans are running around in
terror and I'm someone who lives in what was the frozen zone and
saw the towers burn.

Americans are being urged to stand up but the goverment is urging
us to hide under the bed - No questions please - Leave everything
to us - If you question us your aiding the enemy - You're hurting
the war effort and so on ad nauseum.

Dave

One point about 9/11: what I find frightening is that for security
reasons we know nothing about who, how and most important why. No
evidence, no proof, no public hearing.That is not our civilization.

Let me help you

Who: al Qaeda

Proof: The World Trade Center, all there is a now a big hole in
the ground. So I am asking you to believe me that there where
two skyscapers there full of people

Public hearing: Plenty if you choose to read and newspaper.

Why? Well did the Jews ask the **** why they were being sent to a
death camp. Or maybe the **** are evil like al Qaeda.

That is not our civilization

Well you can answer to your new masters, al Qaeda, if we loss.

Bill

 

[Ted B.47613]

Pure, unadulterated absurdity. Hitler had an army and tanks. Does that make the USA like **** Germany, because WE have an army and tanks? Hitler had two arms and legs, and, hey, so do YOU! That makes you seem suspicious to me. Hardly. But your comparison is just as trite.

Can we afford to live without a Federal agency to coordinate the effort to protect us from Osama and the like? When that dirty bomb goes off in a major US city, and makes it uninhabitable for decades+, you might wish then that someone HAD been more concerned about 'homeland security'. Where will the 6+ million New Yorkers live after that? How will the hospitals handle all the sick and dying, after so many are exposed to lethal doses of radiation. Add a few more big cities and the USA will become just a footnote in world history, while it strives to rebuild a collapsed economy and can't afford to wage a war to protect itself, let alone the rest of the world, from fanatics like Osama. Better dust off your Arabic dictionary and grow a beard. If things go your way, you'll need it.

BTW, only half the country believes the voting in Fla. was subverted. The half that lost. The other half believes that justice prevailed. Winners never cry foul and losers always do. Tomayto, tomahto. You may as well be debating the Kennedy assasination. It's old news, move on.

A couple of things. Just the fact that someone asks for proof is
not an illigitimate question. In the Muslim world all sorts of
theories abound. The problem with these theroies is Osama bin Laden
himself. All these people listen to Al Jizzera. So Osama gets up
and release three tapes where he did everything but say I did it.
He praised to suicide pilots. He promised more planes, he promised
other attacks. The only thing he actually didn't do was say point
blank that he did it.

No one has to believe the tape the government released. Personally
I do but I would concede that our goverment is capable of forging
such a tape.

What kills me is that the people who listen to Al Jizzera about the
whole thing being a CIA plot etc, who use Al jizzera for all their
news absolutely ignore the intervierws which bin Laden himeself
released.

Finally, I disagree with your last point, "what if we lose." We
can't lose, we're confronted with a handfull of fanatics who are
dangerous to individuals but not a threat to America. This of
course is the difference between WWll and this mess.

I personally am appalled that many Americans are running around in
terror and I'm someone who lives in what was the frozen zone and
saw the towers burn.

Americans are being urged to stand up but the goverment is urging
us to hide under the bed - No questions please - Leave everything
to us - If you question us your aiding the enemy - You're hurting
the war effort and so on ad nauseum.

Dave

One point about 9/11: what I find frightening is that for security
reasons we know nothing about who, how and most important why. No
evidence, no proof, no public hearing.That is not our civilization.

Let me help you

Who: al Qaeda

Proof: The World Trade Center, all there is a now a big hole in
the ground. So I am asking you to believe me that there where
two skyscapers there full of people

Public hearing: Plenty if you choose to read and newspaper.

Why? Well did the Jews ask the **** why they were being sent to a
death camp. Or maybe the **** are evil like al Qaeda.

That is not our civilization

Well you can answer to your new masters, al Qaeda, if we loss.

Bill

--
'Think Outside The Box.........Once you're in the box, it's too late.'

My Galleries: http://home.attbi.com/~keylargographics/

 

[David Barkin]

Hi William

What I stated was that it's not wrong to ask for proof. I gave some proof and you just added more. So I think that question is settled.

Proof? The embassy bombing in Africa, the attack on the Cole, the
attack of our service personal in Saudi Arabia and the first attack
of the first WTC. And let not forget the attack that almost happen
in Settle's airport if it was not for quick thinking border patrol
officer. If see the same person slaps you in the face do you still
question who it and you need proof? So
you still want to ask the govenment who it is?

Americans are being urged to stand up but the goverment is urging
us to hide under the bed - No questions please - Leave everything
to us - If you question us your aiding the enemy - You're hurting
the war effort and so on ad nauseum.

What hell are your talking about. It is the press screaming to the
government "your not telling us"! Then as soon as press finds out
about
something, then they go screaming "what are you doing about it", to
the government. It is a Federal law the government must inform the
public
of a terrorist threat, no matter how vague it is. Then the press has
a field day with all the speculating on the vague threat. Those
cable news

This is something I believe you are confused about. We were told that the government had NO KNOWLEDGE, NO FACTS that could have prevented 9/11. This turns out to be a big lie. Don't get me wrong, I'm not accusing the government of letting 9/11 happen because of evil intentions, rather plain simple incompetency. More over thjis stretches back before the Bush administration came to power.

Are you happy that you didn't know about this incompitency. Would you have prefered to remain ignorant? You imply that you do. The press is of course due for alot of criticism but revealing the truth about out intelligence agencies isn't one of them.

Let me add another point. Every revelation about goverment incompitency is immediately followed by announcements that an attack is inevitable. Or for example, Bush opposed creating a reorganization of intelligence and then suddenly this halfassed plan emerges, put together by four people in one week. This reorganization is ludicrous but we are being asked to buy it IMMEDIATELY or the world will end. I do believe you are being a bit naive here.

Finally, Bill - We are on the same side! What we are debating is the best way to send these people to hell, where they belong. The goverment is saying, no debate - trust us.

Bill

 

[David Barkin]

Hi Bogey

While I certainly don't agree with what Mr. Leckenby wrote the Bush administration to my mind has blown it big time. After 9/11 this country was united as never before. Then was the time for them to admit the intelligence errors that in fact have been going on for a long time before Bush came to power. Instead we've been treated to a barrage of statements asking us to keep out mouths shut, to accept all and everything the goverment does or "you're helping the enemy.

As it becomes apparent that the intelligence agencies blew it - That they had the legal authority to stop 9/11 from happening we are being told that we have to many freedoms, that we need more and more power given to the police and in fact the goverment is now saying that if THEY UNILATERALLY DECLARE YOU TO BE AN ENEMY YOU CAN BE HELD INDEINITELY, NO LAWYER NO NOTHING!

In essense we are being told that we have to give up our freedom (basically for ever) in the name of freedom. Some people define freedom as the ability to choose which commercial logo they can wear on their t-shirts. These people just want to "feel safe."

As far as the new bogey (no pun intended) of a dirty bomb, it's not that big a deal. I say that living right on one of their proposed targets. You have to listen to scientists and not the recent government scare tactics, given out to cover up their incompitency. I say that knowing that people will die, that's called the price you pay for freedom - And having a police state run by incompitents is far more dangerous then a free country where these questions can be debated.

Dave

Can we afford to live without a Federal agency to coordinate the
effort to protect us from Osama and the like? When that dirty bomb
goes off in a major US city, and makes it uninhabitable for
decades+, you might wish then that someone HAD been more concerned
about 'homeland security'. Where will the 6+ million New Yorkers
live after that? How will the hospitals handle all the sick and
dying, after so many are exposed to lethal doses of radiation. Add
a few more big cities and the USA will become just a footnote in
world history, while it strives to rebuild a collapsed economy and
can't afford to wage a war to protect itself, let alone the rest of
the world, from fanatics like Osama. Better dust off your Arabic
dictionary and grow a beard. If things go your way, you'll need it.

BTW, only half the country believes the voting in Fla. was
subverted. The half that lost. The other half believes that
justice prevailed. Winners never cry foul and losers always do.
Tomayto, tomahto. You may as well be debating the Kennedy
assasination. It's old news, move on.

David,
I don't trust GWB or his cabinet. Didn't Hitler have a minister of
"homeland security"? Stalin did. And how about the AG Ashcroft with
his more moral than thou attitude? I'sn't it great that information
is hidden from us for our own good? What's being hidden must be the
truth about the administration which the polititions are afraid of.
But we know how this present administration started... with the
subversion of the Florida voting results. "comes the revolution
comrade, comes the revolution!". We'll all be sent to the camps for
"thinking about things independant of the powers to be", ignored.

 

[Michael11945]

I would much rather have the authorities err on the side of caution
than not arrest those photogs or someone else. In that case I don't
think you could even call it erring. Considering 9/11 and other
threats that have been made, they're doing the right thing by
scrutinizing people who photograph or spend too much time around
government installations, or power stations, industrial sites, etc
without a permit or some kind of authorization.

This is silly. If anyone's serious it's far easier cheaper and less obvious to buy commercial satellite images from the web of such places - only this week there was a story about key sites owned by the UK government being available this way .e.g. GCHQ were the UK government intercepts and decryts signals. The clownish efforts of local American police forces are likely to more annoy and atagonize law abiding folks.

Being from somewhere were terrorism has been a daily part of life for a long time I've never been so harassed by the police - even in sensitive border areas.

Michael http://www.360sphere.com

By the time many of you read this, you will have heard about the
brief scare in D.C. when the White House had to be evacuated
briefly when an unauthorized civilian plane flew too close to the
White House, which is a restricted area. He got an escort from 2
F-16s back to the airport he had left from. You think security's
tight now? Wait till the July 4th weekend.

I thought I'd share this with you...thoughts??? writen by: Neil Ward

From: http://www.pdnonline.com

Police Blotter

Brit Shooters Get Suspicious Treatment In New Jersey

New Jersey police twice detained British stock shooter Neil C
Robinson and his assistant after they photographed the area?s
trademark industrial landscapes. Robinson was held and questioned
for suspicion of being engaged in possible terrorist activities. On
one occasion they were shooting a public highway, on another, a
water tower. Robinson was shooting images on spec for Image 100, a
royalty free stock agency.

On May 15, Robinson was on an overpass of the New Jersey turnpike
near Linden, New Jersey, using a hand-held Hasselblad when five
squad cars pulled up. Robinson tells the Newswire: "Despite
producing our passports and documents, as well as explaining our
business, we were escorted to Linden Police Station, where we were
held and questioned for two and a half-hours. At no time was our
equipment examined, and though we were released without charge, it
was a frightening experience. "

Four days later, Robinson was shooting in Rutherford. "We drove
past a water tower, which I thought made a great abstract form. We
were possibly a little naïve, as we noticed that the local
residents were taking an interest in our activity. Five minutes
later, we were stopped by police and taken to Rutherford PD."

Police officers told Robinson that they had received at least ten
phone calls from people who had spotted the photographer?and either
thought he looked suspicious, or couldn?t understand the photogenic
potential of the local sights. "It was the busiest Sunday morning
for some time," says Robinson. "Despite asking them to contact a
named officer at Linden PD, the whole procedure was repeated."

Robinson did not account for the amount of time he would be held by
police when he planned a nine-day photo shoot in New York and New
Jersey. "Everything was fine in New York, and shooting in Manhattan
was not a problem. It was the moment that we set foot in New Jersey
that we encountered trouble." He did, however, manage to photograph
the perimeter of Newark International Airport without arousing
suspicion. After his encounter with the cops, Robinson says, "With
hindsight, perhaps we should have presented ourselves at the local
police station and declared our presence and intentions, prior to
shooting. This was something that we were not expecting."

--Neil Ward

--

 

[Michael11945]

I have photographed a little in Eastern Europe in the good old days
of communism, and have never been questioned. We tried not to be
obtrusive though ? and gave up photographing whenever there was a
possible sensitive target, like railway stations, bridges,
airports, military camps.

Oh dear, dear I know someone who went a few weeks ago to the formerly closed Russian naval town of Kronstadt and shot merrily (with a fairly wretched it must be said) disposible camera. No-one stopped this National Security risk or harassed him one little bit - and the Chechens are equivalent to al-Queda.

Being serious whilst 911 was an awful event, I don't think Americans have an idea just how awful terrorism of say the Northern Irish variety can be - with which I'm familiar. It's not the headline bomb attacks or anything; it's the traffic jams because the police and army are mounting a VCP on a main arterial route into town, it's getting searched going into shops, it's having to explain to the man at the check point enroute into the city centre by car that one's going to church. For my country much of this is in the past but I'd suggest that whilst big terrorism like 911 is scary and awful, the daily dam-nableness of smaller terrorism is in some ways worse. Of course the state can always harden potential targets - and the check points and so on are part of it, but in so doing they're causing dislocation - which the terrorists want. People in Israel of course have it much much worse - but that's another story.

Returning to the policemen in NJ, in my experience (outside the US) policemen and security guards are often just highly officious people who given any excuse will throw their weight around - and what an excuse 911 has been...

Michael

It was just a matter of commonsense

behaviour and a few tips. I would not park to take photos on any
European motorway though: I am sure it would cost me a big fine,
anywhere.
One point about 9/11: what I find frightening is that for security
reasons we know nothing about who, how and most important why. No
evidence, no proof, no public hearing.That is not our civilization.

Fabio

 

[John Burns]

There is no such law.

John

It is a Federal law the government must inform the
public
of a terrorist threat, no matter how vague it is.

 

[kevin keller]

Clownish Nothing funny about 9/11/01. You might have this problem in the uk but we wont put up with it here and will stop it. Trust me when I say the The United States is not clowning around.

I would much rather have the authorities err on the side of caution
than not arrest those photogs or someone else. In that case I don't
think you could even call it erring. Considering 9/11 and other
threats that have been made, they're doing the right thing by
scrutinizing people who photograph or spend too much time around
government installations, or power stations, industrial sites, etc
without a permit or some kind of authorization.

This is silly. If anyone's serious it's far easier cheaper and less
obvious to buy commercial satellite images from the web of such
places - only this week there was a story about key sites owned by
the UK government being available this way .e.g. GCHQ were the UK
government intercepts and decryts signals. The clownish efforts of
local American police forces are likely to more annoy and atagonize
law abiding folks.

Being from somewhere were terrorism has been a daily part of life
for a long time I've never been so harassed by the police - even in
sensitive border areas.

Michael http://www.360sphere.com

By the time many of you read this, you will have heard about the
brief scare in D.C. when the White House had to be evacuated
briefly when an unauthorized civilian plane flew too close to the
White House, which is a restricted area. He got an escort from 2
F-16s back to the airport he had left from. You think security's
tight now? Wait till the July 4th weekend.

I thought I'd share this with you...thoughts??? writen by: Neil Ward

From: http://www.pdnonline.com

Police Blotter

Brit Shooters Get Suspicious Treatment In New Jersey

New Jersey police twice detained British stock shooter Neil C
Robinson and his assistant after they photographed the area?s
trademark industrial landscapes. Robinson was held and questioned
for suspicion of being engaged in possible terrorist activities. On
one occasion they were shooting a public highway, on another, a
water tower. Robinson was shooting images on spec for Image 100, a
royalty free stock agency.

On May 15, Robinson was on an overpass of the New Jersey turnpike
near Linden, New Jersey, using a hand-held Hasselblad when five
squad cars pulled up. Robinson tells the Newswire: "Despite
producing our passports and documents, as well as explaining our
business, we were escorted to Linden Police Station, where we were
held and questioned for two and a half-hours. At no time was our
equipment examined, and though we were released without charge, it
was a frightening experience. "

Four days later, Robinson was shooting in Rutherford. "We drove
past a water tower, which I thought made a great abstract form. We
were possibly a little naïve, as we noticed that the local
residents were taking an interest in our activity. Five minutes
later, we were stopped by police and taken to Rutherford PD."

Police officers told Robinson that they had received at least ten
phone calls from people who had spotted the photographer?and either
thought he looked suspicious, or couldn?t understand the photogenic
potential of the local sights. "It was the busiest Sunday morning
for some time," says Robinson. "Despite asking them to contact a
named officer at Linden PD, the whole procedure was repeated."

Robinson did not account for the amount of time he would be held by
police when he planned a nine-day photo shoot in New York and New
Jersey. "Everything was fine in New York, and shooting in Manhattan
was not a problem. It was the moment that we set foot in New Jersey
that we encountered trouble." He did, however, manage to photograph
the perimeter of Newark International Airport without arousing
suspicion. After his encounter with the cops, Robinson says, "With
hindsight, perhaps we should have presented ourselves at the local
police station and declared our presence and intentions, prior to
shooting. This was something that we were not expecting."

--Neil Ward

--

 

[kevin keller]

You are so full of it. If you believe that are Goverment allowed the attacks then........... This post is so wrong and you are so way of base. I am not naive about the US goverment but I dont think they would even consider something like that. They may be politicians but they also are human beings.

... Ref this thread and the 9/11

America, your own CIA LIED to you - you ignored or USED warnings
from the Israelis to your advantage – you ignored or used warnings
from MI6 to your advantage. You ignored information that would have
had a half assed regime arrest the culprits by accident – never
mind the abysmal excuse about agencies not talking to each other –
BS.

Some eerily common threads surround the bombing of the WTC and
Pearl Harbour – ignored warning – dammit even the invading Japanese
planes we spotted on US radar and instructed to be ignored.

In both cases I think your government wanted to be attacked so as
they could rally the nation and declare war against an enemy who
had perpetrated such a dastardly act.

But, the day to day living in your country seems to have gone
totally bananas. Get a grip, USA – spies can use your own
satellites to download anything they want, buy tourist videos and
interactive maps – there is no intelligence that can be usefully
gathered by a tourist’s snapshot – unlike Pearl pre 1941 where
tourist’s photographs were in reality espionage – we all have moved
on from that a bit – don’t you think?

Have a nice day and please – cool down – the USA is a lovely place.

 

[David Barkin]

Hi Kevin

I am not particulerly trusting of the government, as my posts clearly indicate. However I absolutely agree with you on this. (Aside from this reaction, the plain fact is that members of the US rulling class were killed in this attack, and no matter what else they do, they don't kill each other.) And of course Ger Bee reads one book and knows everything there is to know on a subject.

Furthermore I also absolutely support our intervention in Afghanistan.

Saying all this I can keep in mind the following:

1. We got into the Vietnam war in a major way through the attack on two of our destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin. This resulted in the Tonkin Gulf resolution which gave Johnson a free hand to elarge the war from a handfull of US personal to over half a million American troops. Turns out that the attack never happened at all. This by the way is from the official Pentagon study of the war not some left wing propaganda.

2. We put the Taliban into power, we even paid their saleries until '96. Obviously I'm not blamming Bush for this - It's been US forign policy since the Reagan years. Furthermore the present administration is presently blowing it in Afghanistan. This is going to cost innocent lives and give us trouble down the road in that part of the word. But no matter what the future holds for Afghanistan, Al Quaida isn't going to set up shop there in the future - They have to many enemies...

At any rate, while I was ready to put my personal agenda aside after 9/11 the Bush administration is actually playing a game with this war. They're using it to silence domestic critics, more tax relief for the rich (while screaming that there's a war on), removing many constitutional protections, which protect us all, and so on.

Dave

You are so full of it. If you believe that are Goverment allowed
the attacks then........... This post is so wrong and you are so
way of base. I am not naive about the US goverment but I dont
think they would even consider something like that. They may be
politicians but they also are human beings.

 

[SteveB]

Two observations from a U.K. viewpoint...

1. A lot of Brits died in the 911 tragedy.

2. You probably have more to fear from perfectly legal U.S. residents acting as subversives. Terrorists don't just fly to the U.S., take a few photos, and fly back.

I thought I'd share this with you...thoughts??? writen by: Neil Ward

From: http://www.pdnonline.com

Police Blotter

Brit Shooters Get Suspicious Treatment In New Jersey

New Jersey police twice detained British stock shooter Neil C
Robinson and his assistant after they photographed the area’s
trademark industrial landscapes. Robinson was held and questioned
for suspicion of being engaged in possible terrorist activities. On
one occasion they were shooting a public highway, on another, a
water tower. Robinson was shooting images on spec for Image 100, a
royalty free stock agency.

On May 15, Robinson was on an overpass of the New Jersey turnpike
near Linden, New Jersey, using a hand-held Hasselblad when five
squad cars pulled up. Robinson tells the Newswire: "Despite
producing our passports and documents, as well as explaining our
business, we were escorted to Linden Police Station, where we were
held and questioned for two and a half-hours. At no time was our
equipment examined, and though we were released without charge, it
was a frightening experience. "

Four days later, Robinson was shooting in Rutherford. "We drove
past a water tower, which I thought made a great abstract form. We
were possibly a little naïve, as we noticed that the local
residents were taking an interest in our activity. Five minutes
later, we were stopped by police and taken to Rutherford PD."

Police officers told Robinson that they had received at least ten
phone calls from people who had spotted the photographer–and either
thought he looked suspicious, or couldn’t understand the photogenic
potential of the local sights. "It was the busiest Sunday morning
for some time," says Robinson. "Despite asking them to contact a
named officer at Linden PD, the whole procedure was repeated."

Robinson did not account for the amount of time he would be held by
police when he planned a nine-day photo shoot in New York and New
Jersey. "Everything was fine in New York, and shooting in Manhattan
was not a problem. It was the moment that we set foot in New Jersey
that we encountered trouble." He did, however, manage to photograph
the perimeter of Newark International Airport without arousing
suspicion. After his encounter with the cops, Robinson says, "With
hindsight, perhaps we should have presented ourselves at the local
police station and declared our presence and intentions, prior to
shooting. This was something that we were not expecting."

--Neil Ward

 

[Michael11945]

Clownish Nothing funny about 9/11/01. You might have this problem
in the uk but we wont put up with it here and will stop it. Trust
me when I say the The United States is not clowning around.

Local state police forces are, they're not renowned for their intelligence but are renowned for their often gross over reaction. I come from a particular part of the UK heavily affected by terrorism, please God it never affects the US the same way. To minimise the effects of terrorism police can make a start by smart policing - which does not involve jumping down the throats of every tom **** and harry who waves a camera - it more particularly involves better use of intelligence and seeking not to make new enemies e.g. folks taking pictures.

If ever the US is really affected by terrorism it will be very bad news (which in saying I don't mean to say 9/11 wasn't as awful as it was) you will have to deal with all sorts of grief: vast epic traffic jams as the police search every vehicle going into town, cordoned off city centres, shopping malls that search everyone going in and so on.

Michael http://www.360sphere.com

Michael wrote:

 

[David Barkin]

Violence in America is actually a pretty common thing and that includes terrorism. Any one remember Oklahoma City?

What's usual about American violence or terrorism is that usually it has a political agenda. Whether of the left or the right, there's always someone who is to frustrated or crazy to expound their views peacefully.

The people who pulled off 9/11 are neither of the right or the left. They have a religious agenda.. They're political ideas are so conservative that it would be absurd to compare them to the political right. They basically want to return to the a view of life held during the middle ages and their romantic view didn't exist. Early Islam was generally much more tolerant then these people are.

 

[David Barkin]

Violence in America is actually a pretty common thing and that
includes terrorism. Any one remember Oklahoma City?

What's usual about American violence or terrorism is that usually
it has a political agenda. Whether of the left or the right,
there's always someone who is to frustrated or crazy to expound
their views peacefully.

The people who pulled off 9/11 are neither of the right or the
left. They have a religious agenda.. They're political ideas are so
conservative that it would be absurd to compare them to the
political right. They basically want to return to the a view of
life held during the middle ages and their romantic view didn't
exist. Early Islam was generally much more tolerant then these
people are.

Sorry, I cut myself off and posted by mistake.

What I wanted to add is that I doubt if there are more then a handful of people in the US who actually sympathise with Al Quaida and of this handful, only one or two AT MOST would actually take part in a suicide mission. Certainly no Americans took part in 9/11. So the threat is external and limited. The war will end when the religious promises do not appear. When it is seen that the prophosys do not arise.

Dave

 

[Jon J. Both (Edgeman)]

Mmmm...I thought I'd share this with all of you ...but I didn't think it would stir such contraversy..but just the same it must have been a frightning experience..try putting yourselves in their shoes.

Jon J. Both (Edgeman) "Happy shooting for all of you"

I thought I'd share this with you...thoughts??? writen by: Neil Ward

From: http://www.pdnonline.com

Police Blotter

Brit Shooters Get Suspicious Treatment In New Jersey

New Jersey police twice detained British stock shooter Neil C
Robinson and his assistant after they photographed the area’s
trademark industrial landscapes. Robinson was held and questioned
for suspicion of being engaged in possible terrorist activities. On
one occasion they were shooting a public highway, on another, a
water tower. Robinson was shooting images on spec for Image 100, a
royalty free stock agency.

On May 15, Robinson was on an overpass of the New Jersey turnpike
near Linden, New Jersey, using a hand-held Hasselblad when five
squad cars pulled up. Robinson tells the Newswire: "Despite
producing our passports and documents, as well as explaining our
business, we were escorted to Linden Police Station, where we were
held and questioned for two and a half-hours. At no time was our
equipment examined, and though we were released without charge, it
was a frightening experience. "

Four days later, Robinson was shooting in Rutherford. "We drove
past a water tower, which I thought made a great abstract form. We
were possibly a little naïve, as we noticed that the local
residents were taking an interest in our activity. Five minutes
later, we were stopped by police and taken to Rutherford PD."

Police officers told Robinson that they had received at least ten
phone calls from people who had spotted the photographer–and either
thought he looked suspicious, or couldn’t understand the photogenic
potential of the local sights. "It was the busiest Sunday morning
for some time," says Robinson. "Despite asking them to contact a
named officer at Linden PD, the whole procedure was repeated."

Robinson did not account for the amount of time he would be held by
police when he planned a nine-day photo shoot in New York and New
Jersey. "Everything was fine in New York, and shooting in Manhattan
was not a problem. It was the moment that we set foot in New Jersey
that we encountered trouble." He did, however, manage to photograph
the perimeter of Newark International Airport without arousing
suspicion. After his encounter with the cops, Robinson says, "With
hindsight, perhaps we should have presented ourselves at the local
police station and declared our presence and intentions, prior to
shooting. This was something that we were not expecting."

--Neil Ward

 

[Veniamin Kostitsin II]

With a village idiot for a president - you are.

cheers

veniamin kostitsin

I would much rather have the authorities err on the side of caution
than not arrest those photogs or someone else. In that case I don't
think you could even call it erring. Considering 9/11 and other
threats that have been made, they're doing the right thing by
scrutinizing people who photograph or spend too much time around
government installations, or power stations, industrial sites, etc
without a permit or some kind of authorization.

This is silly. If anyone's serious it's far easier cheaper and less
obvious to buy commercial satellite images from the web of such
places - only this week there was a story about key sites owned by
the UK government being available this way .e.g. GCHQ were the UK
government intercepts and decryts signals. The clownish efforts of
local American police forces are likely to more annoy and atagonize
law abiding folks.

Being from somewhere were terrorism has been a daily part of life
for a long time I've never been so harassed by the police - even in
sensitive border areas.

Michael http://www.360sphere.com

By the time many of you read this, you will have heard about the
brief scare in D.C. when the White House had to be evacuated
briefly when an unauthorized civilian plane flew too close to the
White House, which is a restricted area. He got an escort from 2
F-16s back to the airport he had left from. You think security's
tight now? Wait till the July 4th weekend.

I thought I'd share this with you...thoughts??? writen by: Neil Ward

From: http://www.pdnonline.com

Police Blotter

Brit Shooters Get Suspicious Treatment In New Jersey

New Jersey police twice detained British stock shooter Neil C
Robinson and his assistant after they photographed the area?s
trademark industrial landscapes. Robinson was held and questioned
for suspicion of being engaged in possible terrorist activities. On
one occasion they were shooting a public highway, on another, a
water tower. Robinson was shooting images on spec for Image 100, a
royalty free stock agency.

On May 15, Robinson was on an overpass of the New Jersey turnpike
near Linden, New Jersey, using a hand-held Hasselblad when five
squad cars pulled up. Robinson tells the Newswire: "Despite
producing our passports and documents, as well as explaining our
business, we were escorted to Linden Police Station, where we were
held and questioned for two and a half-hours. At no time was our
equipment examined, and though we were released without charge, it
was a frightening experience. "

Four days later, Robinson was shooting in Rutherford. "We drove
past a water tower, which I thought made a great abstract form. We
were possibly a little naïve, as we noticed that the local
residents were taking an interest in our activity. Five minutes
later, we were stopped by police and taken to Rutherford PD."

Police officers told Robinson that they had received at least ten
phone calls from people who had spotted the photographer?and either
thought he looked suspicious, or couldn?t understand the photogenic
potential of the local sights. "It was the busiest Sunday morning
for some time," says Robinson. "Despite asking them to contact a
named officer at Linden PD, the whole procedure was repeated."

Robinson did not account for the amount of time he would be held by
police when he planned a nine-day photo shoot in New York and New
Jersey. "Everything was fine in New York, and shooting in Manhattan
was not a problem. It was the moment that we set foot in New Jersey
that we encountered trouble." He did, however, manage to photograph
the perimeter of Newark International Airport without arousing
suspicion. After his encounter with the cops, Robinson says, "With
hindsight, perhaps we should have presented ourselves at the local
police station and declared our presence and intentions, prior to
shooting. This was something that we were not expecting."

--Neil Ward

--

--
Veniamin Kostitsin II
http://www.digitalimage.at/

 

[kevin keller]

what ever, that is your opion and like elbows and $%^ holes every one has one.

cheers

veniamin kostitsin

I would much rather have the authorities err on the side of caution
than not arrest those photogs or someone else. In that case I don't
think you could even call it erring. Considering 9/11 and other
threats that have been made, they're doing the right thing by
scrutinizing people who photograph or spend too much time around
government installations, or power stations, industrial sites, etc
without a permit or some kind of authorization.

This is silly. If anyone's serious it's far easier cheaper and less
obvious to buy commercial satellite images from the web of such
places - only this week there was a story about key sites owned by
the UK government being available this way .e.g. GCHQ were the UK
government intercepts and decryts signals. The clownish efforts of
local American police forces are likely to more annoy and atagonize
law abiding folks.

Being from somewhere were terrorism has been a daily part of life
for a long time I've never been so harassed by the police - even in
sensitive border areas.

Michael http://www.360sphere.com

By the time many of you read this, you will have heard about the
brief scare in D.C. when the White House had to be evacuated
briefly when an unauthorized civilian plane flew too close to the
White House, which is a restricted area. He got an escort from 2
F-16s back to the airport he had left from. You think security's
tight now? Wait till the July 4th weekend.

I thought I'd share this with you...thoughts??? writen by: Neil Ward

From: http://www.pdnonline.com

Police Blotter

Brit Shooters Get Suspicious Treatment In New Jersey

New Jersey police twice detained British stock shooter Neil C
Robinson and his assistant after they photographed the area?s
trademark industrial landscapes. Robinson was held and questioned
for suspicion of being engaged in possible terrorist activities. On
one occasion they were shooting a public highway, on another, a
water tower. Robinson was shooting images on spec for Image 100, a
royalty free stock agency.

On May 15, Robinson was on an overpass of the New Jersey turnpike
near Linden, New Jersey, using a hand-held Hasselblad when five
squad cars pulled up. Robinson tells the Newswire: "Despite
producing our passports and documents, as well as explaining our
business, we were escorted to Linden Police Station, where we were
held and questioned for two and a half-hours. At no time was our
equipment examined, and though we were released without charge, it
was a frightening experience. "

Four days later, Robinson was shooting in Rutherford. "We drove
past a water tower, which I thought made a great abstract form. We
were possibly a little naïve, as we noticed that the local
residents were taking an interest in our activity. Five minutes
later, we were stopped by police and taken to Rutherford PD."

Police officers told Robinson that they had received at least ten
phone calls from people who had spotted the photographer?and either
thought he looked suspicious, or couldn?t understand the photogenic
potential of the local sights. "It was the busiest Sunday morning
for some time," says Robinson. "Despite asking them to contact a
named officer at Linden PD, the whole procedure was repeated."

Robinson did not account for the amount of time he would be held by
police when he planned a nine-day photo shoot in New York and New
Jersey. "Everything was fine in New York, and shooting in Manhattan
was not a problem. It was the moment that we set foot in New Jersey
that we encountered trouble." He did, however, manage to photograph
the perimeter of Newark International Airport without arousing
suspicion. After his encounter with the cops, Robinson says, "With
hindsight, perhaps we should have presented ourselves at the local
police station and declared our presence and intentions, prior to
shooting. This was something that we were not expecting."

--Neil Ward

--

--
Veniamin Kostitsin II
http://www.digitalimage.at/

 

[LCD]

LOL. Well, I thought it was funny.

I recall hearing about a photographer who had an appointment to do
a portriat of the Bishop of Rome. When the guys at the gate asked
him what he wanted, he said, "I'm here to shoot the Pope."

Very quickly he found out that those little skirts didn't mean the
Swiss guards are sissys.

--
LCD

 

[LCD]

What did he say to the Swiss Guard? Say 'cheese'!!

LCD