Fujifilm - next favourite company to go bankrupt?

[tbcass]

The micro 4/3 are the most promising.

In what way? They are nice, no doubt, but what makes them more promising than something with a larger sensor?

I guess because the lens body combo can be made much smaller than APS-C.

--
Tom

Look at the picture, not the pixels

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/

 

[gama]

so what's stopping you to buy the current micro 4/3 camera? there are plenty out there.

 

[Ciprian]

Just like everyone thinks they could do better than whoever is President of the US at any given time (or leader of any country). It's easier said than done.

--
Tom

Thinking of (your?) Bush administration I cannot disagree more. Almost anyone reading these forums could have done better.

On a side note European countries stopped occupying other countries and robbing them of their resources long ago.. maybe it's time for the US to get civilized too..
End of politics..

 

[xavozin]

The micro 4/3 are the most promising.

In what way? They are nice, no doubt, but what makes them more promising than something with a larger sensor?

I guess because the lens body combo can be made much smaller than APS-C.

also because:

m4/3 allows fuji to manufacture almost all body components by themselves much like they do in compacts, in contrast with DSLRs which require mirror, OVF, PDAF, SLR-shutter, ...etc which fuji have to import from others reducing their profits.

it is an established system so fuji dont need to start from scratch and if --god forbids-- things go wrong fuji can withdraw without having to leave their customers abandoned. also because it is an established system, fuji can skip doing certain products that they dont prefer to compete on (lenses all or some categories of them for example, could be left to Oly&Pana).

Fuj said in an interview with dpreview (PMA2008) that their EXR sensor is designed to overcome weaknesses of small sensor, and that large sensor like APS-C are already good enough and wouldnt benefit much from an EXR design, 4/3 being smaller than APS-C would benefit more. On the other hand 4/3 & m4/3 systems have always had the sensor as their weakest point, in part because of the small size and in part 'cos of the manufacturing quality & characteristics from panasonic may not be as good as Canon & sony's large sensors (regardless of size), no one knows for sure which of these two factors (size or quality) accounts more to the difference in performance between 4/3 and APS-C sensor, since pana never made an APS while canon/sony never made 4/3.

--
Xavo

image is the only validation and most of their life isn't real.
modified from Sam Sparro - Black and Gold.

 

[Ciprian]

Let's wait for the reviews on the D3000 ... I agree on the D40x, I had the chance to grab one for $325cad and hesitated ...

There are already some reviews for it. I looked very closely at Nikon offerings not long ago and it seemed to me not worthy;
At that kind of price I wouldn't have..

I used my S6500 as a back-up camera at wedding photography;

Wow ... a scary thought ...

my main camera was a Canon 20D with frustrating flash (I've tried 3.. the last one a BIG Metz); the Canon took great pictures as long as I did not use the flash in darker rooms/churches.. there it had gone berserk; the LCD on 20D was horrible; the one on my S6500 was decades ahead.

But the sensor was well behind ... for wedding shooting at least.

Depends on your expectations on IQ. I think the S6500 did just fine; it was much more "safer" in churches.

 

[Ciprian]

so what's stopping you to buy the current micro 4/3 camera? there are plenty out there.

The steep (early adopters) price for a start.

 

[tdkd13]

Have you tried a dedicated Canon flash, that should fix any of these issues as it can operate based on TTL data from the camera itself. Haven't used Canons much but have never encountered this with my Nikon and SB800's or the few times I have used a Canon with a 580 EX flash.
Ted

I used my S6500 as a back-up camera at wedding photography; my main camera was a Canon 20D with frustrating flash (I've tried 3.. the last one a BIG Metz); the Canon took great pictures as long as I did not use the flash in darker rooms/churches.. there it had gone berserk; the LCD on 20D was horrible; the one on my S6500 was decades ahead.

--
http://photobucket.com/albums/y260/tdkd13/

 

[Kim Letkeman]

manufacturing quality & characteristics from panasonic may not be as good as Canon & sony's large sensors (regardless of size), no one knows for sure which of these two factors (size or quality) accounts more to the difference in performance between 4/3 and APS-C sensor, since pana never made an APS while canon/sony never made 4/3.

The latest 4/3 cam (GH1 I think) actually competes quite well ... although the best APS-C are still ahead by a stop ...

The laws of physics are not possible to overcome, given the same generation of sensors and the same quality of design ... so it is possible that Fuji could do a nice 14mp 4/3EXR and come up with a seriously good 7mp cam ... who knows ...

--
http://letkeman.net/Photos
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com

 

[Ciprian]

Have you tried a dedicated Canon flash, that should fix any of these issues as it can operate based on TTL data from the camera itself. Haven't used Canons much but have never encountered this with my Nikon and SB800's or the few times I have used a Canon with a 580 EX flash.
Ted

Thanks for the suggestion. It's not my Canon and I don't plan on buying Canon flashes.. but I used a Metz 3i with a Canon SCA adapter... it should have worked just fine. My friend the owner of both the 20D and the Metz has also a Nikon SCA adapter for the Mtez so when I'll have the chance I'll try it on a Nikon. The Metz 3i is one powerful flash.

 

[Kim Letkeman]

Just like everyone thinks they could do better than whoever is President of the US at any given time (or leader of any country). It's easier said than done.

--
Tom

Thinking of (your?) Bush administration I cannot disagree more. Almost anyone reading these forums could have done better.

You won't find a lot of disagreement on Bush being a sub-optimal leader .... but of course it's just bluster (or hallucination) to think that the average forum reader could step into his place.

On a side note European countries stopped occupying other countries and robbing them of their resources long ago.. maybe it's time for the US to get civilized too..

Rather juvenile .... naive too.

End of politics..

Thank you.

--
http://letkeman.net/Photos
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com

 

[Kim Letkeman]

There are already some reviews for it. I looked very closely at Nikon offerings not long ago and it seemed to me not worthy;

Yeah .... and you think any forum reader could be the president and you think the US should get civilized because Europe did long ago ...

Frankly ... I think your analysis skills leave something to be desired ...

At that kind of price I wouldn't have..

I have no idea what you are talking about ... but if "on the cheap" is your promary consideration, yes, stay away from dSLRs ...

my main camera was a Canon 20D with frustrating flash (I've tried 3.. the last one a BIG Metz); the Canon took great pictures as long as I did not use the flash in darker rooms/churches.. there it had gone berserk; the LCD on 20D was horrible; the one on my S6500 was decades ahead.

But the sensor was well behind ... for wedding shooting at least.

Depends on your expectations on IQ. I think the S6500 did just fine; it was much more "safer" in churches.

Safer ... whatever that means. I think that people are generally aware that weddings are photographed and the bride and groom expect a reasonably covert performance from the photographer ... but they also expect seriously good imagery, which a bridge cam will not deliver under wedding conditions inside churches etc ...

--
http://letkeman.net/Photos
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com

 

[Ciprian]

There are already some reviews for it. I looked very closely at Nikon offerings not long ago and it seemed to me not worthy;

Yeah .... and you think any forum reader could be the president and you think the US should get civilized because Europe did long ago ...

Frankly ... I think your analysis skills leave something to be desired ...

You shouldn't have taken my words ad literam; anyway I think Bush the second was the worst president of USA; of course it all depends on what you think as good.. if robbing people's liberty trough "patriotic acts" and terrorising other countries is good than by all means he was an "awesome" president. End of any of my political inclined comments. I hate politics and politicians.

I don't think the D3000 is better than the D60; of course you are free to disagree.

At that kind of price I wouldn't have..

I have no idea what you are talking about ... but if "on the cheap" is your promary consideration, yes, stay away from dSLRs ...

I think your "missed opportunity" D40x was 325 CAD? "Mine" was almost 500 CAD; excuse me for having such inclinations when I was earning around 200 Euros/ month. Depending on your location/income photography can turn out to be quite an expensive hobby.

Depends on your expectations on IQ. I think the S6500 did just fine; it was much more "safer" in churches.

Safer ... whatever that means. I think that people are generally aware that weddings are photographed and the bride and groom expect a reasonably covert performance from the photographer ... but they also expect seriously good imagery, which a bridge cam will not deliver under wedding conditions inside churches etc ...

I meant safer when the intended image was the one being recorded and not blown images or dark ones (pure lottery); believe me it was quite annoying.

I took photographs as a hobby.. I always liked taking photographs; the wedding photography was more from pleasure than for money. I got less than 40 Euros for a wedding ... surely the "employers" were not expecting me to have 5000 Euros worth of photographic equipment. It may also come as a surprise for you but many people do not have limos, fireworks or other fancy stuff at their weddings. It all comes down to what they can afford. Also quite a lot of weddings do not have a photographer but some guests taking photos with their cheap compacts.

I'm pretty sure there are lots of areas where my skills leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[joseph farrugia]

you know why everything is turning upside down for us fuji owners? because we just blabb against fuji all the time in our own forums....yes keep going like that...nikon, canon, pentax etc (owners) are in heaven hearing us blabbing against our own cameras..i dont own much..i own a f 100fd and a fuji f 210 and am happy with it. what does other cameras do magics? it seems like in this (our forum) nikon, canon etc dominates the scenes.

 

[mihaitzateo]

Well S200EXR have no competion at the moment in the bridge segment.

At the first look the price seems pretty close to a DSLR but if you consider also the 14.5X zoom for which the cheapest option in a DSLR would be Tamron 18-250 the price (for S200EXR) is normal for what it offers.
The competition for S200EXR are the second hand DSLRs.

The only thing that I would like more for S200EXR would be 20X optical zoom.

I have at the moment a s8000fd and I am waiting for the prices on S200EXR to go on the normal level in Romania (at the moment S200EXR is about 600 Euros ) so I will get one to replace my s8000fd.

If someones asks what is so much zoom needed it for well it is needed for shooting wildlife:

cats,birds,flowers,insects and others.And here DR 400% with ISO 400 would be quite excelent also.

 

[Ciprian]

you know why everything is turning upside down for us fuji owners? because we just blabb against fuji all the time in our own forums....yes keep going like that...nikon, canon, pentax etc (owners) are in heaven hearing us blabbing against our own cameras..i dont own much..i own a f 100fd and a fuji f 210 and am happy with it. what does other cameras do magics? it seems like in this (our forum) nikon, canon etc dominates the scenes.

And why is that: is it because Fujifilm's products are not so good anymore or is it that we have higher expectations of IQ? Should we praise the images even if we're not please by their IQ as probably others are doing? I'm not a fan.. if I'm not satisfied by one thing why should I lie about it? And why should someone be committed to a company no matter what? It's not like we're married or something.

If they (Fujifilm bosses) don't correct what I think is wrong with their products and insist on this direction than maybe they deserved to go extinct.

Long ago the Panasonic compact sensors were quite bad.. and now they are close to the IQ of Fujifilm sensors which should be quite embarrassing for Fuji. Kudos to Panasonic for their technological advancements.

 

[Ciprian]

The competition for S200EXR are the second hand DSLRs.

Competition which will probably creamed it in most cases.

 

[Kim Letkeman]

You shouldn't have taken my words ad literam;

You mean I should take them ad illiteram? Nyuk nyuk nyuk ...

anyway I think Bush the second was the worst president of USA; of course it all depends on what you think as good.. if robbing people's liberty trough "patriotic acts" and terrorising other countries is good than by all means he was an "awesome" president. End of any of my political inclined comments. I hate politics and politicians.

You need to read more carefully ... I did not disagree that Bush was not very good for the USA or the world ... on the other hand, I completely disagreed that any forum member could have done better. You debated the wrong point ...

I don't think the D3000 is better than the D60; of course you are free to disagree.

Since I have no idea what you value in a camera, I will. Thank you.

I think your "missed opportunity" D40x was 325 CAD? "Mine" was almost 500 CAD; excuse me for having such inclinations when I was earning around 200 Euros/ month. Depending on your location/income photography can turn out to be quite an expensive hobby.

I was agreeing with you on the quality of the D40x and on how unfortunate it is to miss an opportunity on a great camera ... in my case at a great price.

I really wasn't looking for a record of your prior hardships ... I can infer them from some of your comments ...

I meant safer when the intended image was the one being recorded and not blown images or dark ones (pure lottery); believe me it was quite annoying.

Ah ... so you are alluding to problems you had with the 20D and the fact that the S6500 had no such problems ... of course, it had others ... like slow focus and small sensor generated noise ... no TTL ... etc ...

I took photographs as a hobby.. I always liked taking photographs; the wedding photography was more from pleasure than for money. I got less than 40 Euros for a wedding ... surely the "employers" were not expecting me to have 5000 Euros worth of photographic equipment.

There have been many arguments about wedding photography on this forum ... I take the viewpoint that a wedding is a once in a lifetime event and that anyone who agrees to photograph a wedding, and especially if there is pay involved, is in fact obligated to use professional or semi-professional grade equipment. Even if it is rented.

It may also come as a surprise for you but many people do not have limos, fireworks or other fancy stuff at their weddings. It all comes down to what they can afford. Also quite a lot of weddings do not have a photographer but some guests taking photos with their cheap compacts.

I understand ... and it does not come as a surprise. And in such cases, it is acceptable to use consumer equipment on the understanding that the couple will tend to get what they pay for ...

I'm pretty sure there are lots of areas where my skills leaves a lot to be desired.

We are all on a learning curve ... we can all learn something every day ... and it never ends ...

--
http://letkeman.net/Photos
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com

 

[Kim Letkeman]

The competition for S200EXR are the second hand DSLRs.

Competition which will probably creamed it in most cases.

Agreed ... the laws of physics are not to be denied ...

--
http://letkeman.net/Photos
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com

 

[Kim Letkeman]

Long ago the Panasonic compact sensors were quite bad.. and now they are close to the IQ of Fujifilm sensors which should be quite embarrassing for Fuji. Kudos to Panasonic for their technological advancements.

Panny sensors are only close to Fuji sensors in the minds of Panny owners

Shoot the F70 for a while in all kinds of light ... then try it with a Panny compact ...

The people who swear by Pannys seem to shoot mainly in brutal daylght and with flash ....

--
http://letkeman.net/Photos
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com

 

[SkyShoot2]

most Japan digicam vendors already "own each other" to put it oversimplified

and have strong connections with US financial circles and Japan military industry.

so before something hurt Fuji/Oly/Pany/Nikon/Pentax, we should expect Godzila invasion, or asteroid hit

p.s.

thats why current state of "competition" on DC's market is just [poorly-made]game.