Cropped vs Straight Out of the Camera

bumblejelly

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I am curious what the percentage of photos you take and deliver during the course of your job are cropped vs uncropped.

Looking at newspapers, pj blogs, sports, even wedding blogs I see the majority of photos have size ratios that would suggest they are uncropped and straight out of the camera, so that the composing in the camera is very deliberate. Obviously that would be the goal but I still find that I need to crop at least 30-50% of my photos to obtain the strongest composition and story telling. I am constantly trying to reduce that percentage which requires a more thoughtful and deliberate approach but often times the fast pace of shooting does not allow that. Comments?
 
Practice, practice , practice, and study, study, study both composition and framing. Look at paintings as well as photographs. Some photos need t obe cropped and some do not, just remember that what you leave out is as important as what you leave in and what you leave in should only reinforce what you want to communicate with the photographic image. Always ask yourself: why is this in my photo?
 
Thanks for your comments. So getting back to my question, what would you say is the percentage of uncropped photos you use in the end?
 
For commercial work, where the usage size is specified by the client for the project; 90%

For photo-J work: near zero is cropped by me. Keep in mind that most magazines print at 8.5x11 inches (full page bleed) or 11x17 inches (double truck bleed) so sometimes a photo editor or art director will crop. If I have a say and disagree with their choice I'll put my case forward for not cropping. If it has been commissioned by a publication for a cover then I know when I am shooting I have to take into account the final reproduction ratio when building the composition and setting the framing

For documentary and personal work: it depends. I strive to make the best coposition/ framing I can but if the framing is off but the emotional and intellectual content works then yes I'll try to find the best crop that creates the most powerful photo.
Thanks for your comments. So getting back to my question, what would you say is the percentage of uncropped photos you use in the end?
 
I aim for 100% out of the camera, but rarely get above 80% -- but these are tweaks to the overall composition (cropping in 5-10%) as much viewfinder-blamable as anything else -- in other words shots are not dramatically recomposed in the cropping process.

I'm very particular about my composition so I always laugh when one of my publishers gets them and crops them in all kinds of ways I never intended. Sometimes I get frustrated, and other times I admit it provides another interesting take on the same shot.

Relatedly, I do often shoot two shots -- a vertical and horizontal -- of the same scene, cognizant of publications to want full-size one-page shots.
 
Because I am trained a printer (Noritsu), I know more or less how to crop from looking through the viewfinder.

One of my employees asked me, "How is it that your images never need cropping but other photographers requires a lot of cropping?" The answer is through experience.

When I look at a subject through the viewfinder, I leave a bit of room around them to take into consideration that I may have to crop it. It is easier to crop this way than to add canvas in Photo Shop.

I train my photographers who to get exact crop when we shoot youth sports. This cuts down on the time my printers have to do to crop every image. Thus we can get the orders out to the families really fast.
 
Great information everyone, thanks. I have forced myself to think about this more recently, going so far as to only shoot with my 50mm prime lens which I feel forces me to think about how my shots are composed through the view finder. I'd love to hear others' comments on this as well.
 
Well that depends if it is a 1.6 sensor or a 35 mm sensor you are always gong to crop to get an 8x10 print I would say 50 % of my wedding pictures are tweaked but kept at 8x12 file size until I print as 8x10 or 5 x7 then I try and make each picture look the same because if you size for 8x10 it will still be a little different than sized to a 5x7
 
Great information everyone, thanks. I have forced myself to think about this more recently, going so far as to only shoot with my 50mm prime lens which I feel forces me to think about how my shots are composed through the view finder. I'd love to hear others' comments on this as well.
That is actually a great idea, for it forces you to think about the picture before you snap it. It is actually the way I learned with film. I only crop when needed for certain media, or specialty sizes are ordered. Usually it is the editor that will do most of the cropping.

I truly like my raw jpgs straight out of camera for PJ as well as RAW for event photography. For studio I crop to the sizes ordered and send out from there.

Greg
 
I am curious what the percentage of photos you take and deliver during the course of your job are cropped vs uncropped.

Looking at newspapers, pj blogs, sports, even wedding blogs I see the majority of photos have size ratios that would suggest they are uncropped and straight out of the camera, so that the composing in the camera is very deliberate. Obviously that would be the goal but I still find that I need to crop at least 30-50% of my photos to obtain the strongest composition and story telling. I am constantly trying to reduce that percentage which requires a more thoughtful and deliberate approach but often times the fast pace of shooting does not allow that. Comments?
There are some purists who say that you should "get it right" in the camera, to the point that the out-of-camera image shouldn't ever need to be touched! No cropping, no post-processing, no exposure refinements, no WB tweaking...nothing! Well, that's all fine and good, but why put such arbitrary restrictions on your images and yourself? Is it supposed to be some kind of game? Obviously, it's great to get everything as good as you can when you shoot, but that isn't always the case. Heck, there are plenty of times when I do feel like I got the perfect exposure and perfect framing at the time of shooting, but later when I see the image in my computer, I simply find a way to make it look even better! Nothing wrong with doing any of these changes. It's my image, after all.

I think some people think that the image creation process stops the moment they press the shutter button. For me, it's just beginning. An image isn't "done" until I say it's done. If that means adding a bit of a crop later, or adding a major crop later, fine. So be it. I got no hang-ups over it.
 
I think some people think that the image creation process stops the moment they press the shutter button. For me, it's just beginning. An image isn't "done" until I say it's done. If that means adding a bit of a crop later, or adding a major crop later, fine. So be it. I got no hang-ups over it.
Thanks, I appreciate your point of view and ultimately agree with it. However, when dealing with hundreds of photos it certainly cuts down on post processing time when you "nail" it in the camera. If I could get to 75% of my images not needing cropping - and have them be the best composition possible - I'd be happy.
 
I think some people think that the image creation process stops the moment they press the shutter button. For me, it's just beginning. An image isn't "done" until I say it's done. If that means adding a bit of a crop later, or adding a major crop later, fine. So be it. I got no hang-ups over it.
Thanks, I appreciate your point of view and ultimately agree with it. However, when dealing with hundreds of photos it certainly cuts down on post processing time when you "nail" it in the camera. If I could get to 75% of my images not needing cropping - and have them be the best composition possible - I'd be happy.
I come from the film days, where cropping was a much bigger pain in the butt, so I have a habit of framing the shot I want most of the time at the time of shooting. Nevertheless, still I do my share of post cropping today, maybe because it's easy to do. Sometimes it's a lot of images that I crop, sometimes it's none. Regardless, it's all part of the post-processing process. Just comes with the territory.

Of course, to discipline yourself, just don't let yourself do any post-process cropping! What it is is what it is!
 
Short answer: Now that I am retired and doing this for my own satisfaction, about 80-90% of my photos go uncropped or with only very minimal cropping.

I have a couple of advantges: I use 4/3 format, which is a pretty close match to standard print and mat sizes, and my current camera offers 100% accurate viewing. With most of my older SLRs I had to crop photos just to bring them back to what I saw in the finder.

In a perfect world, I would crop only to control shape and would shape each photo to fit the subject. In the real world, I don't enjoy cutting custom mats, so I try to compose in the camera to 8x10 proportions -- which also matches 16x20 and is very close to 11x14, 20x24 and 30x40.

In commercial work, advertising for example, one often has to leave room for a variety of crops or to fit a layout. Framing too tight can leave the designers in a bind.

For my personal work, I am very aware that any significant cropping will hurt the technical quality of the finished photo. When I worked in newspaper, content could trump technical quality and we cropped as much as we needed to, especially on news photos. Now, working for myself, I always try to make the best use I can of the frame, which sometimes means walking away from a photo opportunity if I don't have the right lens or otherwise cannot get the framing right.

Hope some of that was helpful.

Gato

Street Fashion and Alternative Portraits:
http://www.silvermirage.com
 
Of course, to discipline yourself, just don't let yourself do any post-process cropping! What it is is what it is!
In many ways, that is the answer. Back in my early days in photography I made and amazing, almost overynight, improvement in my camera technique when I simply decided to throw away sub-standard negatives.

Philosophically, I tend to agreee with T3's original statement. If it's a good picture, who cares how you got it? I also think that many things are better done in the computer: final control of contrast and color balance, sharpening and maybe a bit of cropping as well. OTOH, photographers who are striving for high technical quality need to learn to use as much of the frame as possible. Technique isn't everything -- technique without content is an empty excercise -- but good technique can support content while poor technique will usually detract.

Gato

--
Street Fashion and Alternative Portraits:
http://www.silvermirage.com
 
I am curious what the percentage of photos you take and deliver during the course of your job are cropped vs uncropped.

Looking at newspapers, pj blogs, sports, even wedding blogs I see the majority of photos have size ratios that would suggest they are uncropped and straight out of the camera, so that the composing in the camera is very deliberate. Obviously that would be the goal but I still find that I need to crop at least 30-50% of my photos to obtain the strongest composition and story telling. I am constantly trying to reduce that percentage which requires a more thoughtful and deliberate approach but often times the fast pace of shooting does not allow that. Comments?
The overwhelming majority of what we shoot gets cropped. We shoot compositions meant to be cropped from 2:3 (8x12) to 5x7, 8x10 and 11x14, so, needless to say, there's a_lot of room left around the subject... 4x5, 4x6 and 16x20, among others, are the same proportions as any of those 4. When I shoot for myself, I usually compose with a 4:5 ratio in mind, since I seem to often come up with either an 8x10 or a 16x20. Of course, lately, I've been doing a lot of 12x18s, so those don't get cropped much. It's really a pain, though, when I shoot with one aspect ratio in mind, and decide to go to another...
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
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'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart
 
In camera composition was so very critical back in the days of slide film and film in general. I find digital to be wonderful on so many levels including being able to crop as I desire. When I shoot weddings I rarely shoot vertical, preferring to crop later, particularly when I have to use flash. Today I did an aerial shoot of a sub division and some buildings. About 20% were cropped. I crop whenever I think it will improve the image and I no longer make a big deal of "getting it right" like I did when I really had to do so. It's nice to take ones time and get it right, and sometimes shooting professionally means needing to do that, and other times it's of little importance. I've been around the block long enough to not give hoot what anyone else thinks. :).
 
However, when dealing with hundreds of photos it certainly cuts down on post processing time when you "nail" it in the camera.
This is an extremly important point to a working professional, and to anyone who has any asperations about going professional should do well to heed it.

The simple fact is tha to any professional, any editing work such as cropping takes time and overally has the effect that it costs or loses you money.

So whenever, wherever and however possible, get it right in camera first time.

But saying that, there are somethings out of your control.

Common sizes such as 7x5, 6x9 and 8x10 all have different ratios, as does a magazines at A4, and several other sizes.

For magazines I shoot quite loose, because I never know how the editor will want to use the image, they get cropped so many ways! but it'll be the page setter not me that does that.

For say a wedding, then I shoot tighter, but you still have to shoot loose enough to incorporate different ratio crops.
 
One of my pet peeves is to get as much right in the camera as I can. That includes the crop. When people say they want more MP to crop after the fact...well that seems like a waste for my type of work.

Devil is in the details. Details take maximum resoultion. Maximum resolution takes proper care in framing your shot before you pull the trigger.

now with some things like fast moving action, the luxury isnt there for taking time to set up. I can see it then.

But for people who can control the shoot, or are shooting landscapes...there is no excuse for not taking the time if you have it to get the crop right.

Roman
--

The best tools of a successful photographer as well as a 'well lived' life is appreciation and a sense of adventure.

These are the tools of mastery of all things.

http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/
 
VArious camras yield pictures of various shapes, so it is almost impossible to guess whether a picture was cropped, unless it is really weird. And that may have involved a weird camera.

That said, D-SLR cameras are themost popular with pro photographers to day for editorial work, so the ratio of height to width is 3:2 or 2:3, which enlarges to 4x6 and 8x12.

In broad strokes, thre are two kinds of photographers; the frame people, and the laid-out people.

The frame people sell wedding pictures and portraits, mostly, and the pictures are framed, mostly. Perhaps in wood on a wall, perhaps on a DVD sized to fit a 16:9 television, or perhaps framed in fancy pages inside a photo album.

The smart ones compose carefully in the camera, planning to make their phtos fit the kind of frames a client wants (see the contract) or is likely to want.

And any D-SLR photographer (some exceptions, like Olympus users) knows if 8x10 is an expected size, and wil thus leave extra space at the eges to be cropped off an 8x12 image, so that it fits on an 8x10 sheet, and goes into an 8x10 frame or mat or album page.

Different cropping for 5x7 parents' ablums, and different again for 4x6 proof albums.

The laid-out phtographers fall into editorial and advertising groups, which overlap, too.

Most advertising and many editorial pictures are shot to a layout prepared by an art director. So the photographer needs to shoot to fit the layout, which may mean lots of unused space within the camera.

I used to work for a magazine that used squares in the layout. EAch page was two squares wide and three squares high.

All my photos had to fit one square by itself, or two squares side by side or two squares above each other, or four squares (2x2) or three squares high, or six squres (2 wide by three high)

One day the assignment was phtograph a four-member family to fit two squares side by side.

I've had dozens of shots run in special sections of a newspaper over the past couple of years, and for each of them I supplied an art director with a choice of pictures for each illustration, and he chose from them, and cropped as needed, to make the pictures fit around the ads, and still look good.

For decades, either taking pictures or editing pictures for magazines or magazine-like uses (annual reports, etc.) I cropped to fit the space, bearing in mind that sometimes stories had to share pages with ads, and some pages had production processes that permitted bleeds and other pages did not, an the bleeds could be top, one side or the other or both, and/or bottom.

For a lot of work, I'd shoot cariations that allowed the picture to look better on a elft page or a right page, and often left room for type.

SURVEY:

Just finished a two magazine survey.
Fortune, September 14, 2009, editorial pictures only.

64 photos that were not in the 2:3 ratio, and 14 photos that were in the 2:3 ratio.

Sharp (which is a Canadian frree "men's" magazine with fashion, cars, watches, Porsches sedan ads, etc. but no scantily dressed women.

Leaving out the carefully shot fashion (which would have worked with a layout)

There are 71 "random crop" pictures and 8 that look like they are 2:3 ratio.

A fair number of shots in both magazines looked like they'd enlarge / reduce to 8x10 format.

NOWADAYS... a lot ofthe "frame" folks are using newfangled digital systems, including creating magazine format and book format publications where they can crop the photo to match their "vision" with having to find an album page with a, for instance, 3 x 8 inch cutout.

Same applies to multi-image collage prints.

I don't do much personal portratiture (as contrasted to editorial portraiture) but I do know lots of people are not happy having to custom-frame an odd-sided print instead of just buying a ready-made mat and frame for 8x10 or 11 x 14, neighter one of which comes from a D-SLR camera.

BAK
 

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