Professional to Professional Wedding Ettique

[JJbowl]

Hi all......its been quite some time since I've posted. I opened a studio 2 years ago and strictly through word of mouth (no advertising) business has been decent.

Ok here is the question/comment.

I was a guest at a friends wedding who asked me to take photos. Being a wedding photographer, I knew how to stay out the photographers way. I left my flash off during the ceremony and for most of the reception. I used my 70-200mm 2.8 lens and stayed out of his way. Since these were not client photographs but "snapshots" per say, I shot at 1600.

Except for once. I turned my flash on while the couple was cutting the cake. The sun had gone down and I needed my flash. I figured no harm as 100 other guests were using point and shoots at the same time. I got nice shots of the couple cutting the cake.

Immediately after that, the paid photographer came to my table and in front of everyone at my table, asked me not to do that anymore. I said do what. He said take pictures. I asked why and he said my flash caused 2 of his shots to be overexposed. I said it couldn't have been the other 100 guessts taking pictures?? He said no it was me as I had the most powerful flash. He said professional to professional that this was his wedding. I told him I understood, but I wasn't a pro at this wedding but rather a guest and I was just doing what everyone else was doing at that time, which was taking pictures of friends. I also said no problem, sorry to mess you up. Although if we flashed together, his flash didn't cause me to overexpose any of the shots.

Anyway......I put my camera away and the guests at my table couldn't believe he had told me to stop especially at that point in the wedding. I was embarrassed and it made him look bad. So later I went back to him and said that if that ever happens to you again, please take that person aside and tell them rather than say something in front of the other guests at the reception.

This has been really bothering me as he had no problem with the other 6 hours I was photographing.

Just wondered what the opinion of other pros are out there. How would you handle a situation like this? Can a pro shoot photographs at a friends wedding without the paid pro getting upset? I'm questioning myself as to how I would handle it. Just curious.

 

[Andrew64673]

Everyone now, everyone at a wedding has a camera, and they take photos. Its part of the job now. The couple BP session you could stop others from being there, maybe even the family formals if your keen, but wherever the guests are it is a losing battle to get them to stop photographing. There are other ways around it, I would stage the cake cutting (nothing else actually) to get that shot, or you can let everyone have a go first or after, but they are going to take photos, like it or not. Its like going to a rock concert and telling them to keep the noise down.

 

[rfclark]

Hello...

I agree with your post that the paid photographer did not handle his complaint properly: i.e. privately.

Technically, his claim that your flash caused his overexposed images is way out of the realm of possibility. Unless you were using 19th century flash powder and his shutter was open for a lengthy time, no way could your flash have affected his shots.

With your strobe (duration of what- 1/20,000 of a second), would have to fire at the same time his shutter was open for what, 1/200th second?) Nah...

****
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http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h40/rclarkphotos/?albumview=grid

 

[lone_dingo]

My own opinion is you stepped over the line between respect for a colleague and interference with his job. You weren't there to take photos, you were there to celebrate an important event in someone's life. Why make it harder for someone they paid to record it?

The very least you could have done was NOT take a DSLR as an invited guest. What did you plan to do? Sabotage his job or try later to show him up with "better" shots?

Really... If the B&G wanted you to record their wedding, don't you think they'd have paid you instead of the working Pro?

When I go bush in Kakadu National Park, I pay a native guide to take me where I can get the shots I want. Every so often we come across other natives with more precise knowledge (I presume) do you think I would be right to go up to one of them and ask if they could do a better job than the guide I hired?

If you employed a well known photographer for (say) $10,000 to photograph your wedding, would you support him if he demanded a guest stop interfering with his photography? Doing a number on him during an important scene like cake cutting is about as bad as it gets.

I don't know about other people's contracts but mine stipulates a walk out clause if I ask a guest to stop interfering with my job and the client doesn't back me up. How would you feel if the photographer in question packed up and walked out because of your behaviour?

--

I never did buy the Porche I dreamed about. I know now that when you want one most, you can afford it least... Like the camera I long for!

 

[halfamo]

Tricky one.

The wedding couple could & should have let the official wedding photographer know that they had asked another pro to take pictures as well. If he was ok with that, introduced you well beforehand so you could both work out who was doing what.

If the official photographer had carefully posed up the cutting the cake shot, it's understandable that he that was annoyed. He probably sussed that you you weren't the usual "hobbyist" & it may have been the straw that broke the camel's back. However he should have spoken to you privately & not embarassed you & other guests.

 

[JJbowl]

Actually we were introduced. The grooms mom, who is a dear friend of mine, asked me to come to take her and her son as the photographer had no plans of doing so. She wanted to hire me, but wanted me to enjoy myself as a guest of hers instead of working.

The bride and groom met with the photographer a week before the wedding and told him I would be there. He said no problem. She can take all the pictures she wants. We WERE introduced and like I said, for 6 hours it was no problem at all.

 

[JJbowl]

Whoa....You do have a strong opinion. I was in NO way there to "sabotage" him or to get better shots. I was asked by the grooms mother.

We were introduced and he said no problem. We got along famously for most of the day. I respected my boundries......with the exception of them feeding each other the cake. The posed shots of them at the cake, I made sure I didnt' flash so not to mess him up. I wanted the candid shots.

 

[JJbowl]

During his posed cake shots, my flash was off. I only turned it on as they were feeding each other cake. That is a circus at weddings with every other guest taking pictures as well. I really didn't see any harm. If I had, I would have left the flash off.

Lesson learned, I guess.

 

[halfamo]

In my neck of the woods , he appears to be "bang out of order".

However, it might have helped, if when he asked you to stop, instead of arguing with him you were more comradely. Maybe he thought you were just going to do the candids & not repeat his formals. Probably the stress was getting to him.

 

[JJbowl]

I thought so too. And you are right, I should have been more compliant. I got a bit defensive as he really came at me in front of the guests at my table. It was embarassing.

And actually, I didn't take the formals. For the actual cake cutting posed shots, my flash was OFF. I turned it on when the smashed the cake.

Thanks for your opinion.

 

[28to70]

We have touched on this topic many times before, and the conclusions are that most weddings are expected to have guests shooting away. Most pro photographer's including myself have learned to live with this, but only to a certain point. It's getting so bad that I can understand why that photographer got so irritated. I've had guest's jump in front of me, behind me, to the side of me, and behind the couple as they are cutting the cake. In short, I have seen it all. Although I love my job, it's not pleasant to have to live with the extra stress. So we live with it. But don't like it!

 

[Bruce Allen Hendricks]

Actually we were introduced. The grooms mom, who is a dear friend of mine, asked me to come to take her and her son as the photographer had no plans of doing so. She wanted to hire me, but wanted me to enjoy myself as a guest of hers instead of working.

The bride and groom met with the photographer a week before the wedding and told him I would be there. He said no problem. She can take all the pictures she wants. We WERE introduced and like I said, for 6 hours it was no problem at all.

Posisbly he knew he was not the "preffered" photographer and it was getting to him - I don't know. Remember there are 2 sides to every story. It's also possible that the guy was biting his tongue throught the day about what you were doing and he finally had it and lost it to you at the reception. It's really not fair to judge at this point as really no one knws and like I siad the story is one sided.

Personally, when ever someone else is photographing what I'm doing I stop them right a way. Actually I do everything I can to do as little as possible with guests around. At the church and the reception however, all bets are off. At the cake cutting (if it's staged) either I will ask everyone to wait until I'm done and take whatever they wat (there will always be a ton of cameras around) or I've been know to letthem take their first - but ask one I start they take nothing. If it's a live cake cutting like what you are describing - it's a free for all. He has no reason to tell you to not take any images.

Either way, if it was a problem he should have told you right on the spot, not when you are back at the table.

--
Bruce Allen Hendricks MPA, F.Ph.
http://www.impactphotographicdesign.com

 

[JJbowl]

Agreed. And that's why I put my camera away. One less stress for him and believe me I understood. He just approached it all wrong. In my humble opinion. Sorry.......but he just did.

 

[JJbowl]

Yes could be. One of the guests at my table thought maybe he felt threatened by me. And let me tell you I am a very easy going person. In my opinion, I was in no way stepping on his toes. I was aware of where he was at all times and I made sure wherever I was shooting would in no way interfere with him. That is more that I can say for the other 150 guests with cameras.

 

[willysp]

You are making a lot of assumptions and accusations in your post that are not at all supported by the facts that have been posted.

Chill!!!!

 

[davefulp]

I don't know about other people's contracts but mine stipulates a walk out clause if I ask a guest to stop interfering with my job and the client doesn't back me up. How would you feel if the photographer in question packed up and walked out because of your behaviour?

Whoa.... did you say you have a "walk out clause". You claim to be a professional yet you don't trust your people skills to be sufficient to deal with an interfering guest? Unless asked to do something illegal, a true pro would NEVER walk... PERIOD... NEVER... I suggest that you stick to landscapes, they almost never argue.

d
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Is it the best you can do with your camera, lens, subject and light?... if you think so... you're probably not cut out for this.

 

[Apple Valley]

I was asked at my cousins wedding (by my Godmother) to take the whole wedding because photographer could not take past formal. I said the paid photographer must be informed prior and I needed to be introduced, because I respected her space and would not have appreciated someone with SLR shooting side by side..

After the formals the paid photographer actually thanked me for some of the placement of party members. Myself l would have been fine shooting next to you, because I am confident of my abilities but obviously he wasn't.
--
http://www.takenbyteiken.com

 

[BigPixel]

The pro should have turned to all assembled around the cake and said he would appreciate it that no one else shoot until he got his shot. Works most of the time.
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BigPixel / Hawaii

 

[Skip M]

In my opinion, he was so far out of line as to beggar belief. First, to blame you, and you alone, for a total of two overexposed shots. Like you said, it could have been any of the other 100 or so people firing away. The chances of him firing at the precise moment you and just you, did, twice, are pretty slim. Second, to take you to task publicly, in an effort to embarrass you. He only made himself look bad. Third, to ask you not to shoot, as you are a pro. Again, like you said, you're only there taking snapshots, and the fact that you're doing it with a better camera than at least half the other guests is beside the point.

As to the early respondent who said you shouldn't have been taking photos because you were there only to celebrate an occasion, well, why should you be different from the other 100 or so with cameras. Aren't they there to celebrate the same occasion?
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

 

[Sammy Yousef]

It was his wedding. He has to be able to set the rules if he's expected to get decent photos. You can't give someone the responsibility for something and not give them the authority. In that situation you just put your camera down and apologise for getting in the way (unless the couple have agreed with him and you otherwise in advance).

Of course in reality what he was saying is "I don't want you showing up my crummy photography by getting a better shot since you're the only one that doesn't have a P&S and a crummy flash and you seem to know what you're doing. I'm charging this couple thousands so stay out of my way and stop showing me up".

I've had enough negative experiences with Professional Photographers to avoid having much to do with any I don't know personally and well.

I made the mistake of allowing a Pro photographer to also shoot at a wedding where I was the (unpaid) primary photographer. She was supossedly there to get promotional shots of the celebrant. She said she'd stay out of the way, but instead hijacked the couple, started directing them, and made snide remarks about amateurs, then had the gaul to sell them her shots.

I have also had the good fortune of working with a good Professional under similar circumstances (me and her both unpaid doing it for a friend, me primary). We worked well and cooperatively and she's someone I would hire (a very short list of people).

The key word here is "professional". Some people can't distinguish it from the word "paid". Others go deaf if they feel their revenue has been threatened (even if that's paranoia).

Now watch what I've said degenerate into a flame war, like the last 2 times I made similar comments. Of course I couldn't possibly be genuine about what I'm saying. I must be a troll and an idiot and clearly since I'm am amateur I shouldn't be discussing anything on the pro forum (even though it's open to all. There, it's all been said, perhaps this way we can avoid 150 posts of the same. What's the bet we can't though. Watch what I've said get twisted.

--
Sammy