Ep1,G1, GH1, GF1... enough with the toys !! when do we get a real camera ?

[Harold66]

Hello everyone,
as an Olympus E user for 3 years, I was impatient to see the new M4/3 cameras.

after more than a year since the introduction of the first m4/3 camera ( the seemingly already discontinued g1) there seems to be a obvious fact :

Both Panasonic and Olympus seem so focused on competing with each other thay they are fighting against each other than complement each other and trying to fill all the potential of this "new" format

But more importantly , despite all the hype generated on these forums with each new announcement or rumor, there are 2 sad conclusions to draw so far :

1/ all 4 cameras are more TOYS than TOOLS. This is obvious from the choice of finishes ( sliver only for oly , red and blue for pana) as for some of the features (art filters, menu modes) and even more so by some of the missing ones ( Only zooms or pancakes lenses , poor OVF , no consideration for 3rd party M lenses, art filters , ridiculous menus modes...)

the fact that the sales are good mean that it is very unlikely that any of these 2 manufacturers would try something new and would stay focused( pun intended) on
the P&S and sunday users.

while there is obviously a market for the evf , built in flash and all zoom users, I think it is sad that with new cameras they are not trying to reach a wider audience rather than browbeating on the same one

2/ Despite 3 cameras so far , there is NOT the beginning of a camera system. think about it . 4 cameras soon and only some zooms ( which now are further separated between photo zooms and video zooms) and NOT one REAL single focal length

it looks they have decided that the market wants Pancakes and pancakes we would get for every single focal length

to make things worse , panasonic is focused on creating lenses which would give poor results without the software correction. and I am shocked that no reviewer have commented on it as it is mainly( not only but still_)a smart but dirty way to make their lenses less compatible with olympus bodies. ADD to that , the is in body versus in lens IS and you basically have 2 COMPETING systems which offer little real compatibility with each other

I have been in Photography for over 25 years and I can't remember ONE SINGLE time when a format would count 4 camera bodies without a single NOn pancake focal lens or without any focal length in the 24 to 28mm range

It seems like this new format is toy driven by people who want their camera to look and be the size of an i-pod or an i-phone

I am not disputing the fact that from a sales point of view , it is wiser to address that market segment first. but there is obviously a big market for Mlenses owners who :
want a black hand holdable body which looks like a tool and not a toy

want to have AF lenses in the 24 -85mm range and HAVE the option to use in real life their M lenses and get some focus coformation

don't need a flash in their camera but prefer to keep the hotshoe for optional OVF and have the built in EVF on the left side like in a rangefinder
pay a little more for some weather seal and don't care for video

want a camera to be small but not to the point where the camera does not fit regular hands or can only be ergonomic with tiny lenses

a Ep1 size witha bigger grip for better hand holdability ( and a bigger battery and two cards ) is the direction to go

if Oly and Pana are not interested , they could at least invite someone in.

the crazy thing is that they don't , someone will do it in the APS-C format ( canon I suspect) ( even if this would do nothing for me as I dislike the 3;2 elongated format)

--
http://www.harold-glit.com
http://www.modelmayhem.com/haroldglit

 

[joao 43]

The PEN series sure wasn't a toy. The actual E-P1 is a much more refined tool than the PEN F Eugene Smith used.... has a photographic tool its way more advanced than anything in the market for the same price and IQ. Maybe you need a more conventional "pro look" camera, but not all of us need it. The Micro 4/3's isn't the sucessor of 4/3's, if you need a pro or semi-pro camera you should buy a E30 or a E3. The Build up at the start is for new bodies, since the target is the consumer amateur/advanced photographer, there are at least 5 lens m4/3 and 30+ 4/3's, 2 zooms and 2 primes are coming so whats the fuzz? This system is only a year. For 8 years of my 26 years I been shooting pro with several cameras and system and I just love the E-P1 for its IQ, IS and Convenience. Like you said, cameras are just tools, start enjoying them as so.

Regards

João

 

[Harold66]

The PEN series sure wasn't a toy. The actual E-P1 is a much more refined tool than the PEN F Eugene Smith used....

Really ? the EP1 has not much common with the pen ... and also it needs to be said that a camera without a lens is useless and there is NOT ONE real high quality single focal lens available so far

has a photographic tool its way more advanced than anything in the market for the same price and IQ. Maybe you need a more conventional "pro look" camera, but not all of us need it.

Hey like I said, I understand why Olympus choose to please the "-P&S-sunday user-want video in my camera" crowd.

I am just saying that it is kind of dumb now with following cameras not to tap on another potential market

The Micro 4/3's isn't the sucessor of 4/3's, if you need a pro or semi-pro camera you should buy a E30 or a E3.
I have 2 E3 thank you but I can still use a leica M size system if there is one

The Build up at the start is for new bodies, since the target is the consumer amateur/advanced photographer, there are at least 5 lens m4/3 and 30+ 4/3's, 2 zooms and 2 primes are coming so whats the fuzz?

Oh come on , most of these 4/3 lenses are IN PRACTICE UNUSABLE on the ep-1 either because of their size and weight or because they won't focus

. Like you said, cameras are just tools, start enjoying them as so.
Yes , except the GH1 and EP1are merely tools and mostly toys

-Harold
http://www.harold-glit.com
http://www.modelmayhem.com/haroldglit

 

[webrunner5]

I must admit that the color choice and finish on both cameras seems to be like they consulted Paris Hilton on what is best.

Don

 

[toddreg]

I'll say it again-you my friend are stuck in the past.

 

[Angular Mo]

Mr Harold,

BTW, I love your B&Ws, and would like access, sent you an email a while ago....you capture the female form, and emotion, better than anyone I have ever seen..... let's have a discussion....
your "obvious facts" appear, to me, to be opinions...

In my opinion, the E-P1 digital PEN and G1/GH1 do complement one another, consider the differences in size and form factors.

In my opinion, the relationship between these two companies can be described as "co-opetition", and the beneficiary is the consumer. Yes, it is unfortunate for us, that Panny does not "share" their EVF and video focus knowledge with Oly, resulting in them going for OIS, rahter than IBIS. But, why should they ?

But more importantly , despite all the hype generated on these forums with each new announcement or rumor, there are 2 sad conclusions to draw so far :

1/ all 4 cameras are more TOYS than TOOLS. This is obvious from the choice of finishes ( sliver only for oly , red and blue for pana) as for some of the features (art filters, menu modes) and even more so by some of the missing ones ( Only zooms or pancakes lenses , poor OVF , no consideration for 3rd party M lenses, art filters , ridiculous menus modes...)

In my opinion, a toy is defined by the capability of an instrument, not its finish, and to whom it is being marketed towards.

For me, I am glad that both companies did not consumer research to broaden the appeal because the higher the sales, the faster they go down the cost curve, which does two things; 1) funds futures R&D, and 2) enables the lowering of prices. In my view, braodening the reach for the first products, is the correct priority sequentially.

Yes, I am extremely upset at not having FASTER LENSES, but I accept it s with IS, and a better sensore technology, I feel that I gained two-stope over my E-1...and perhaps an F2 would be too wide for the form factor...

the fact that the sales are good mean that it is very unlikely that any of these 2 manufacturers would try something new and would stay focused( pun intended) on the P&S and sunday users.

In my view, that is just too cynical, especially regarding Oly, which values innovation over mass appeal.

2/ Despite 3 cameras so far , there is NOT the beginning of a camera system. think about it . 4 cameras soon and only some zooms ( which now are further separated between photo zooms and video zooms) and NOT one REAL single focal length

They need to go for broad appeal at first....the market wants zooms. You would be amazed that every person to whom I hand my E-1 with the 50/2 to take a shot of me and my family, ask...where is the zoom ? The 50/2 works great on my E-P1 digital PEN, I think you would create masterpieces with this, well...with any combination, really.

to make things worse , panasonic is focused on creating lenses which would give poor results without the software correction. and I am shocked that no reviewer have commented on it as it is mainly( not only but still_)a smart but dirty way to make their lenses less compatible with olympus bodies.

A question, does the software correction needed for Panny lenses, NOT work when attached to a E-P1 digital PEN, anc vice-versa ?

I would be VERY SHOCKED to discover that is true, as, I would expect the correction to be done at the software, not in the camera.

ADD to that , the is in body versus in lens IS and you basically have 2 > COMPETING systems which offer little real compatibility with each other

Well, I own an E-P1 digital PEN, I also bought the Panny 45-200, which, though I did not for its OIS, which I don't need for photos, is not an expensive lens for what it does, and its size.

As to the 14-140, that is very expensive, and I wonder how much of its value is due to the OIS, rahter than curved blades, and stepless aperture, both of which I still benefit from inside the E-P! digital PEN.

I have been in Photography for over 25 years and I can't remember ONE > SINGLE time when a format would count 4 camera bodies without a single NOn > pancake focal lens or without any focal length in the 24 to 28mm range

Times have moved on, as have optical quality of zooms. But, I agree, which is why my 50/2 is my favorite portrait lens.

It seems like this new format is toy driven by people who want their camera to look and be the size of an i-pod or an i-phone

I think the E-P1 digiital PEN, in silver, looks like a serious camera. But again, for me, a toy is based upon the innards.

I am not disputing the fact that from a sales point of view , it is wiser to address that market segment first. but there is obviously a big market for Mlenses owners who :
want a black hand holdable body which looks like a tool and not a toy

The E-P1 digital PEN, with the leatherette...that still looks like a toy to you ?

want to have AF lenses in the 24 -85mm range and HAVE the option to use in real life their M lenses and get some focus coformation

I, too, would like FC, mine eyes are getting old !

don't need a flash in their camera but prefer to keep the hotshoe for optional OVF and have the built in EVF on the left side like in a rangefinder

Most users would not want to pay for two shoes....

pay a little more for some weather seal and don't care for video

I expect sealing to come out, just not in the first round...this is one reason, I still enjoy my E-1, which I suspect is good enough for your terrific portraits !!!!!!

want a camera to be small but not to the point where the camera does not fit regular hands or can only be ergonomic with tiny lenses

The E-P1 digital PEN, is too small for you ?

a Ep1 size witha bigger grip for better hand holdability ( and a bigger battery and two cards ) is the direction to go

The GH1 does not have a sufficient grip for you ?
--
'Photos are what remain when the memories are forgotten' - Angular Mo.

 

[Harold66]

I'll say it again-you my friend are stuck in the past.

well for a camera whose marketing effort was to revive a 40 year old or so camera I am not the only one

and furthermore , I am not ashamed to have grown up with film cameras. if naything , it makes a better photographer now even if this is incomprehensible by the digital fan boys
Harold
--
http://www.harold-glit.com
http://www.modelmayhem.com/haroldglit

 

[TEBnewyork]

But more importantly , despite all the hype generated on these forums with each new announcement or rumor, there are 2 sad conclusions to draw so far :

1/ all 4 cameras are more TOYS than TOOLS. This is obvious from the choice of finishes ( sliver only for oly , red and blue for pana) as for some of the features (art filters, menu modes) and even more so by some of the missing ones ( Only zooms or pancakes lenses , poor OVF , no consideration for 3rd party M lenses, art filters , ridiculous menus modes...)

I would hardly call the cameras TOYS. All have modes that you wouldn't want to use but all have the manual controls that you crave. Funny, I know some very serious camera people that went for the G1 in different colors just for something different. The GH1 is being gobbled up by movie studios to use to add additional camera angles to stunt shots. GH1 being used by very serious movie makers with very high quality cinema lenses.

the fact that the sales are good mean that it is very unlikely that any of these 2 manufacturers would try something new and would stay focused( pun intended) on
the P&S and sunday users.

while there is obviously a market for the evf , built in flash and all zoom users, I think it is sad that with new cameras they are not trying to reach a wider audience rather than browbeating on the same one

Why do you say they aren't tying to reach a wider audience. I think a big chunk of the users on this forum came from having other camera systems and aren't diehard Oly or Panny users. Perhaps getting the sales from all of us hacks they will have more dollars to spend on you.

2/ Despite 3 cameras so far , there is NOT the beginning of a camera system. think about it . 4 cameras soon and only some zooms ( which now are further separated between photo zooms and video zooms) and NOT one REAL single focal length

So Panasonic already announcing a 45mm macro doesn't count? The 7-14 is a very good lens (even from the reviewers). If video demands a continuous stepless aperture and silence which add expense should everyone pay for those features. If you want it buy it. Certainly doesn't hurt you in taking stills. That lens is also rated as good or higher than the similar zoom ranges from Nikon and Canon.

it looks they have decided that the market wants Pancakes and pancakes we would get for every single focal length

Again the 45 macro does not look like a pancake. How many primes does Oly have for 4/3's and how quickly were they launched into the lens lineup?

to make things worse , panasonic is focused on creating lenses which would give poor results without the software correction. and I am shocked that no reviewer have commented on it as it is mainly( not only but still_)a smart but dirty way to make their lenses less compatible with olympus bodies. ADD to that , the is in body versus in lens IS and you basically have 2 COMPETING systems which offer little real compatibility with each other

With Hassleblad, Leica, Phase 1 and others doing some corrections to their lenses does that make them toys as well. If you take the logic further, just because you can set a white balance at the computer is that impure?

I have been in Photography for over 25 years and I can't remember ONE SINGLE time when a format would count 4 camera bodies without a single NOn pancake focal lens or without any focal length in the 24 to 28mm range

It seems like this new format is toy driven by people who want their camera to look and be the size of an i-pod or an i-phone

I am not disputing the fact that from a sales point of view , it is wiser to address that market segment first. but there is obviously a big market for Mlenses owners who :
want a black hand holdable body which looks like a tool and not a toy

Pictures of the black G1 with Leica lenses attached do not look like toys.

want to have AF lenses in the 24 -85mm range and HAVE the option to use in real life their M lenses and get some focus coformation

focus confirmation on the M lenses is not necessary. It is easy to tell when you are in focus even on the Noctilux at f0.95 (I have samples that I took at PMA). Getting accurate focus on the G1 is easier and more accurate than focus confirmation on my D700 - where you can move to focus ring a bit and the green light will stay on. Is the M8 a toy because it has no focus confirm? It is certainly harder to accuratel focus than m4/3

don't need a flash in their camera but prefer to keep the hotshoe for optional OVF and have the built in EVF on the left side like in a rangefinder
pay a little more for some weather seal and don't care for video

Interesting I would have said the same thing about video until a recent trip to Iceland where one of the 5DII users was taking some clips and it seemed so natural to capture some of the splendor of the geothermal areas as massive waterfalls, etc. I can now see how the clips with the stills will make an amazing multimedia movie.

want a camera to be small but not to the point where the camera does not fit regular hands or can only be ergonomic with tiny lenses

that is a dslr

a Ep1 size witha bigger grip for better hand holdability ( and a bigger battery and two cards ) is the direction to go

perhaps as the system develops but that isn't the sweet spot of the market. People who really need dual cards seem to be the wedding shooters that need the immediate backup.

if Oly and Pana are not interested , they could at least invite someone in.

the crazy thing is that they don't , someone will do it in the APS-C format ( canon I suspect) ( even if this would do nothing for me as I dislike the 3;2 elongated format)

m4/3 isn't closed to the two companies

--
terry
http://tbanet.zenfolio.com/

 

[JJJRRR768]

Harold, many of the E-P1 users, and I will speak for myself in case I become one, want a camera with better IQ than the small P&S cameras we have decided to use (some of us) instead of a DSLR. For me a DSLR will never be considered, it will never make it into the car on my daily rounds (when I work having a camera with me is a nice thing, but it has to be handy and inconspicuous. My Ricoh CX1 travels with me, it is small and does a good job but the heavy NR does cause some IQ issues, though it is very nice. I am too lazy and need to PP more. The E-P1 is even larger than I want, give me something the size of a GR or GX for me to be happy, and maybe one day that will happen too.

My Fuji F30 and the CX1 are more toys than the E-P1, but to your point I am disappointed that there are no lenses for the camera that excite me. I would like the following primes and I would be happy: 12, 42 or so, 100 or a tad longer. For a zoom, a 12 to 50 would be great but I think it would be huge and also the IQ would suffer from the primes. If this drives the price up, and I am sure it would, it will scare off most of the potential buyers. I have found that I use my CX1 mostly at 14 (28mm), it works most of the time for me. I cannot lower the NR and that is a concern as I hate what it does to greenery. If I was just shooting in the city it probably would not bother me as much. BTW, I love that camera and the UI, wish all camera could be this easy to use. I don't know why folks think the GR with it's 28mm lens is only a street camera, for me it might be the perfect camera, but at $700 or $800 US it is a bit expensive for what it is, unless small is the biggest must. When I think of the E-P1 and starting a system again I start to think of the price of the whole thing. I played with one and maybe it is just me, but I found the MF to be a chore. So now I would be into a system for over $2,000 US by the time I got it all together. I could buy a Ricoh GR3, and a GX, or I could wait to see what they have up their sleeve and just how expensive that will end up being. It might pay as when it comes it may satisfy me more, but who knows just what any of these companies are up to. Rumors are just that until the cameras are announced. I have heard Ricoh is working on an interchangeable lens camera, size is an unknown, sensor size as well. I expect there will be many serious cameras coming in this size in the next 6 to 12 months. For me smaller is always better.

Thanks for your thoughts, they are always appreciated.

Joel

 

[Godfrey]

While you might disparage these cameras as toys, I've found the G1 to be an extraordinarily competent tool and have completed several assignments and more than a few rounds of my personal work using it exclusively.

Panasonic's system diagram for their micro-FourThirds products includes the DMW-MA1 lens mount adapter plus their own FourThirds and Olympus' FourThirds SLR lenses. Olympus does the same for the E-P1.

That the camera is a little, pretty, plastic piece of cheesewiz in blue, red and black that looks like a girlie's plaything is irrelevant. In the hands of a photographer, it is a perfectly serious, capable camera: an excellent photographic tool.

Don't judge a book by its cover.

I suspect that you simply unhappy because they're not making what you want yet. What was it the Rolling Stones wrote a song about once upon a time?

...You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes, well you might find
You get what you need
--
Godfrey
http://godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

 

[Harold66]

Angular Mo wrote:

you capture the female form, and emotion, better than anyone I have ever seen.....
Thank you again for the kind words

your "obvious facts" appear, to me, to be opinions...

well let's see

In my opinion, the relationship between these two companies can be described as "co-opetition", and the beneficiary is the consumer.

I am not saying that they should but I found it sad that now these companies seem to be going at each other throat , while they announced lots of things together in the past ( think E330, Pana L1 in the past). so why customers benefit from competition between manufacturers in general , that does not seem to be so much the case here, at least for now

In my opinion, a toy is defined by the capability of an instrument, not its finish, and to whom it is being marketed towards.

I read that twice and I still have no idea what you meant

For me, I am glad that both companies did not consumer research to broaden the appeal because the higher the sales, the faster they go down the cost curve, which does two things; 1) funds futures R&D, and 2) enables the lowering of prices. In my view, braodening the reach for the first products, is the correct priority sequentially.

Yes as I said before , I don't dispute that at all and sales figures probably show that too. I am just more perplex about rumored future bodies don't seem to think outside the box

Yes, I am extremely upset at not having FASTER LENSES, but I accept it s with IS, and a better sensore technology, I feel that I gained two-stope over my E-1...and perhaps an F2 would be too wide for the form factor...

the fact that the sales are good mean that it is very unlikely that any of these 2 manufacturers would try something new and would stay focused( pun intended) on the P&S and sunday users.

In my view, that is just too cynical, especially regarding Oly, which values innovation over mass appeal.

well , we shall see pretty soon

2/ Despite 3 cameras so far , there is NOT the beginning of a camera system. think about it . 4 cameras soon and only some zooms ( which now are further separated between photo zooms and video zooms) and NOT one REAL single focal length

They need to go for broad appeal at first....the market wants zooms.

again , no argument here . I am just saying that due to the success of this format , both companies need to think about NON pancakes single focal lengths

to make things worse , panasonic is focused on creating lenses which would give poor results without the software correction. and I am shocked that no reviewer have commented on it as it is mainly( not only but still_)a smart but dirty way to make their lenses less compatible with olympus bodies.

A question, does the software correction needed for Panny lenses, NOT work when attached to a E-P1 digital PEN, anc vice-versa ?

I would be VERY SHOCKED to discover that is true, as, I would expect the correction to be done at the software, not in the camera.

well I don't think it does. can someone here confirm one way or the other ?

ADD to that , the is in body versus in lens IS and you basically have 2 > COMPETING systems which offer little real compatibility with each other

Well, I own an E-P1 digital PEN, I also bought the Panny 45-200, which, though I did not for its OIS, which I don't need for photos, is not an expensive lens for what it does, and its size.

I am sorry but I doubt that very much . if you use that zoom ,EVERYONE could benefit from the is unless you shoot on a tripod

I have been in Photography for over 25 years and I can't remember ONE > SINGLE time when a format would count 4 camera bodies without a single NOn > pancake focal lens or without any focal length in the 24 to 28mm range

Times have moved on, as have optical quality of zooms. But, I agree, which is why my 50/2 is my favorite portrait lens.

sorry , you are missing my point. first of all , a great single focal length always beats a great zoom when priced similarly. NOT to mention the size and weight argument which is even more IMPORTANT on a small camera body

I am not disputing the fact that from a sales point of view , it is wiser to address that market segment first. but there is obviously a big market for Mlenses owners who :

The E-P1 digital PEN, with the leatherette...that still looks like a toy to you ?

yes it does , even more so

prefer to keep the hotshoe for optional OVF and have the built in EVF on the left side like in a rangefinder

Most users would not want to pay for two shoes....

sorry you misunderstood. I have never talk about 2 hotshoes . one built in EVF and one hotshoe for optional OVF or flash

...this is one reason, I still enjoy my E-1, which I suspect is good enough for your terrific portraits !!!!!!

well I have not E1 on women photography for a long time. only the E3 work
because with that E3 I can manual focus OK

want a camera to be small but not to the point where the camera does not fit regular hands or can only be ergonomic with tiny lenses

The E-P1 digital PEN, is too small for you ?

the grip is yes

The GH1 does not have a sufficient grip for you ?

don't know about that one and don't care to find out as the G1 and GH1 are NOT REALLY 4/3 cameras as the viewfinder is 3;2 and I hate 3;2 ratio

Harold
http://www.harold-glit.com
http://www.modelmayhem.com/haroldglit

 

[Harold66]

While you might disparage these cameras as toys, I've found the G1 to be an extraordinarily competent tool and have completed several assignments and more than a few rounds of my personal work using it exclusively.

Good for you . I am not saying you can ' t take pictures with it , just that is

a flawed camera in many respects .... and btw , I still think the G1 although unavailable black body only is the most useful of the 3 we have so far

Panasonic's system diagram for their micro-FourThirds products includes the DMW-MA1 lens mount adapter plus their own FourThirds and Olympus' FourThirds SLR lenses. Olympus does the same for the E-P1.

YES, Nice but in practicality , you have only a few lenses that are actually usable on this camera hand held. I know someone has posted a review with a EP1 fiited with a 14-35mm zoom on it . But the law of physics do not change because someone wants to make a statement

That the camera is a little, pretty, plastic piece of cheesewiz in blue, red and black that looks like a girlie's plaything is irrelevant.

it would IF it was the only thing I mentioned . But of course , you forgot all the other toy atributes the art filters, the menu navigation , the video mode, etc...

In the hands of a photographer, it is a perfectly serious, capable camera: an excellent photographic tool.
well if it works for you , I am glad
Harold
--
http://www.harold-glit.com
http://www.modelmayhem.com/haroldglit

 

[Stu 5]

But more importantly , despite all the hype generated on these forums with each new announcement or rumor, there are 2 sad conclusions to draw so far :

1/ all 4 cameras are more TOYS than TOOLS. This is obvious from the choice of finishes ( sliver only for oly , red and blue for pana) as for some of the features (art filters, menu modes) and even more so by some of the missing ones ( Only zooms or pancakes lenses , poor OVF , no consideration for 3rd party M lenses, art filters , ridiculous menus modes...)

I would hardly call the cameras TOYS. All have modes that you wouldn't want to use but all have the manual controls that you crave. Funny, I know some very serious camera people that went for the G1 in different colors just for something different. The GH1 is being gobbled up by movie studios to use to add additional camera angles to stunt shots. GH1 being used by very serious movie makers with very high quality cinema lenses.

Which film/cinema lenses can be mounted on the GH1?

 

[TEBnewyork]

There is one listed in this video

http://www.vimeo.com/groups/gh1/videos/5981422

check out his work/blog

http://www.vimeo.com/philipbloom

--
terry
http://tbanet.zenfolio.com/

 

[Harold66]

. The GH1 is being gobbled up by movie studios to use to add additional camera angles to stunt shots. GH1 being used by very serious movie makers with very high quality cinema lenses.

SO ??? my point exactly . Every serious review that I have read indicate that this is one of the most serious video cam of late. I am not disputing that. the Gh1 is a video camera that can take stills . so no wonder why studios love it. I want a camera not a video camera

2/ Despite 3 cameras so far , there is NOT the beginning of a camera system. think about it . 4 cameras soon and only some zooms ( which now are further separated between photo zooms and video zooms) and NOT one REAL single focal length

So Panasonic already announcing a 45mm macro doesn't count?

well Panasonic has played that trick before. I ll wait to see when the lens is actually available

The 7-14 is a very good lens (even from the reviewers). If video demands a continuous stepless aperture and silence which add expense should everyone pay for those features. If you want it buy it. Certainly doesn't hurt you in taking stills. That lens is also rated as good or higher than the similar zoom ranges from Nikon and Canon.
YES but it's a zoom. Please read my point BEFORE answering them

Again the 45 macro does not look like a pancake. How many primes does Oly have for 4/3's and how quickly were they launched into the lens lineup?

well when they came up with the E1 , they had at least 2 for sure the 50 and the 150mm and the macro came right after that. and they did not have the sales that the Ep1 seem to generate

to make things worse , panasonic is focused on creating lenses which would give poor results without the software correction. and I am shocked that no reviewer have commented on it as it is mainly( not only but still_)a smart but dirty way to make their lenses less compatible with olympus bodies. ADD to that , the is in body versus in lens IS and you basically have 2 COMPETING systems which offer little real compatibility with each other

With Hassleblad, Leica, Phase 1 and others doing some corrections to their lenses does that make them toys as well.

again READ what I write BEFORE answering it. I NEVER said that in camera corrections make the pana a toy . I said it was a way to shut olympus out
you are mixing my points

Pictures of the black G1 with Leica lenses attached do not look like toys.

yes ,well tell me wehre one can find a Black G1 body only

focus confirmation on the M lenses is not necessary. It is easy to tell when you are in focus even on the Noctilux at f0.95 (I have samples that I took at PMA). Getting accurate focus on the G1 is easier and more accurate than focus confirmation on my D700 - where you can move to focus ring a bit and the green light will stay on. Is the M8 a toy because it has no focus confirm? It is certainly harder to accuratel focus than m4/3

you must be kidding . Have you EVER used a rangefinder

want a camera to be small but not to the point where the camera does not fit regular hands or can only be ergonomic with tiny lenses

that is a dslr

NOt it's not , think of Leica M , or ther rangefinders or even the Panasonic L1

Harold
http://www.harold-glit.com
http://www.modelmayhem.com/haroldglit

 

[Harold66]

Harold, many of the E-P1 users, and I will speak for myself in case I become one, want a camera with better IQ than the small P&S cameras we have decided to use (some of us) instead of a DSLR.

Me too and there are lots of us around here feeling exactly the same need

For me a DSLR will never be considered, it will never make it into the car on my daily rounds (when I work having a camera with me is a nice thing, but it has to be handy and inconspicuous. My Ricoh CX1 travels with me, it is small and does a good job but the heavy NR does cause some IQ issues, though it is very nice. I am too lazy and need to PP more. The E-P1 is even larger than I want, give me something the size of a GR or GX for me to be happy, and maybe one day that will happen too.

a 4/3 camera with interchangeable lenses can't really get much smaller than the Ep1

as I said to you before , I think you should get a GR or GX . the quality is MUCH higher than the CX1 and you still have that great Ricoh user interface that all serious photogs love and make Ricoh such a amazing company

My Fuji F30 and the CX1 are more toys than the E-P1, but to your point I am disappointed that there are no lenses for the camera that excite me. I would like the following primes and I would be happy: 12, 42

could not agree more. these are the MOST neeeded single focal lenghts ( and this is true of regular 4/3 Too)

Thanks for your thoughts, they are always appreciated.

same here. I always enjoy your posts

Joel

Harold
--
http://www.harold-glit.com
http://www.modelmayhem.com/haroldglit

 

[Andrew Westlake]

Ok here's the deal with lens corrections:

Correction of rectilinear distortion is built into the Micro Four Thirds standard. Lenses hold correction parameters in their firmware; bodies apply them on the fly to the viewfinder image, and to jpegs. Raw converters which support the format properly also apply the corrections automatically. BTW Olympus lenses use distortion correction just as much as Panasonic.

In addition, Panasonic bodies provide CA correction with Panasonic lenses. Note that the lenses don't really have higher than usual CA, and will give quite acceptable results on Olympus bodies; Panasonic's just throwing a bit more computational horsepower at the problem to produce cleaner JPEGs.
--
Andy Westlake
dpreview.com/lensreviews

 

[TEBnewyork]

I recently sold both of my M8s. With 100 percent certainty I can say wide open on a 50 lux or any fast lens at close distance the focus is more accurate on the G1 with magnified view than just using the rangefinder.

This was either the new Noctilux or 24 lux on a G1 wide open straight from the camera



--
terry
http://tbanet.zenfolio.com/

 

[nick_webster]

It's been a couple of weeks since your last big thread that you want a couple of primes, either for m4:3s or normal 4:3s.

So many more people will buy zooms that primes are a low priority for the manufacturers, after all they are in business to make money, not keep Harold happy

Very curious attitude to coloured cameras. Does it matter if a camera is black red or blue? Cameras seem to be the only tool I know that have to be black to be considered seriously. I've got all sorts of other tools that don't come in black but work perfectly well. OK you don't want some of the features like scene modes, but each of the cameras offers full manual control which is all you need to use them the same as any other camera.

F1 cars are some of the most focussed "tools" that I know of, and none of them come in black - do you think the drivers ought to complain that they could go faster if they were painted black ?

Nick

 

[Harold66]

Andy
Thank you for your post . Just want to make sure I understand what you wrote
so I understand that with a Panasonic lens mounted on an Ep1 , shooting RAW+JPEG

I would get the rectilinear corrections for distortion but not the CA corrections
did I got that right ?
Harold
--
http://www.harold-glit.com
http://www.modelmayhem.com/haroldglit