Model TFPCD no Show questions ?

[jayhuse]

Well, I been shooting a few models from Model Mayhem on a TFP and TFPCD relationship. Now I am just starting out but I have noticed more than enough no Shows for the models. I am curious if you have had any dealing with this and if you were able to make it more reliable type of shooting. As of now my shooting is about 50%. Half the time they come up with an excuse not to come. Car broke down parents in the hospital ect.

So I am curious if you have done any pre-questions to sniff out if they are really serious or not. I seen some of these girls photos on the web site which are horrible. THey say they want to be a model but in all honestly i am thinking they are just trying to earn a quick buck and am not taking it seriously. Many young models will say Pay or TPFCD to build thier portfolio. As it stand their Portfolio is realy lacking any and I mean any Quality photo.

Has anybody made a better percentage of shows ?
Any experience you can give me ?

thanks
Jay

 

[FriscoRon]

Hi Jay,

I've probably shot a dozen to 18 MMers over the last six months. Most of them really didn't have a clue about what it takes to be a model.

I only had a few no-shows but I require constant communication via either email or the MM messaging, and I require exchanging cell phone numbers prior to the shoot in case one of us (not me) are running late.

Probably the other thing that gave me a higher show rate is that I was pretty particular about who I shot. Having said that, I don't really know how to explain it.

Those MMers that I shot with were typically pretty good to work with, but when you shoot with a pro model -- well, it's a completely different experience.
--
Ron

 

[jayhuse]

Yea, I should have clarified my post. I have not really had any no shows but more cancels at the last minute.

I agree many of the MMerrs do not seem to think that modeling is work like they can just show up and shoot.

I have had alot of contact with the girls through emails, ect. what i am finding is the younger ones are trying to get on there and make a quick dollar by just showing up not really understanding how it works.

I have never shot with a pro model. I been told it is completely different, although not sure how.

I think I will probably question a little more on thier motives for modeling. If they are thinking they should be making money right now then their motivation to build thier profile is probably lacking.
hhmm thank and any additional infro would be great.

Jared

 

[Jon Laye]

I think just by the fact that their are not getting paid, and you are not getting paid, they put little value on your time, or their own.

Kind of like my wedding clients. Those spending $3000 act like they are paying me as if their were the "The Donald" and can be difficult. "How come you didn't do this shot, or that shot.... Lighting was not good that time of day, you were late...etc."

But clients paying $8000 seem to have more respect and let me do my job, show up on time, expect me to run the show and create images. It always works out better this way

 

[saurongt]

I'm just staring out on Model Mayhem, and already had some last minute cancellations. I'm thinking now that it would be useful to have a short meeting in person before finally scheduling the shoot. I might make that my final policy: No show at the planning meeting = no shoot.

That said, I really don't know how effective this would be.
--
-Alexey



http://www.flickr.com/photos/36208813@N00/

 

[jayhuse]

I think you are correct. I am going to implement a policy, we talk 1 or 2 times on the phone then meet in person for a quick brief talk and feel each other out then do a shoot. Something of that nature so that it will weed out the fly by nighters.

I stated that if you can get the model to invest something into the shoot you are more likely to get her to show up. Now I do not want her to buy anything but something has to inspire her to show up she already has to have that mental connection.

One of the Models I just got done shooting had problems with another photograher. she was late and then cancelled the Shoot with the poor guy. She said he told her he was done working with her and her previous problems. Basically she did not care. The photographer had a planned shoot in a certain building that I know took some time to do. That said this same model was 1.3 hours late to our shoot when she really had no reason to be except she just woke up late.

Many of these same models want money and a pretty high price actually. So my feelings are changing on how to deal with them. Basically, proven models will be worth their price others well just that fly by nighters.

 

[proshooter_melbourne_AU]

maybe these couple of ideas will help you.

Book your models thru an agency- the agency (if half decent) might ask you a ton of questions, but you suddenly have someone (the agent) responsible for ensuring you have talent for the shoot. Which can be a comforting thing if you are waiting at a pre booked and pre paid location, with an entourage ready to go.

If your shoots DON'T involve complicated location bookings and usage, simply ask the model to contact YOU when she is ready to shoot, and put a time limit on the offer. For my non commercial shoots, if I shoot with a stranger, this is
the way I do it.

Some will contact you, some won't. Most of the time I can move on reasonably short notice, especially if it's for a fun shoot.

Internet models- whom we (my studio) never work with any more, are generally NOT as committed as the majority of good agency models- remember the internet model has virtually NO industry entry or startup cost- so many do it " just to see" because they have nothing else to do at the time of completing the profile.

At least you are lucky that you got notification. Many of the tales I read here in Au involve incommunicado models- the poor shooters have no idea if there's anything in the system or not- it's a sorry boat to be in.

This behaviour comes with the territory unfortunately. Add up the time spent on these projects which fail to materialise- and you might find you could have got a great model from one of the best agencies in town, and put all that excess time into turning over some dollars.

Your brain (and wallet) will thank you.

Cheers

ProShooter

LIFE is a 'long exposure'... and full of 'noise'. Wouldn't want it any other way!

 

[chekist]

I am not sure if it will work in the future, but so far I had some success with emphasizing that them being there on time is the main concern and I ask if they foresee any reason they would not be able to come. Of course, there is still no consequences in this case, but at least you make it clear how you feel. At the same time I mainly hire models for paid assignments so they are actually loosing something by not showing up.
--
Eugene
http://picture.stanford.edu/Photo

 

[txww]

The best thing to do is to set up a face to face meeting at a place of their choice. I want them to feel comfortable that I’m just not some guy with a camera. During this meeting we discuss: what it is they are looking for, what type of shots they want, when will they get the prints / CD, where will the shots be taken at (outside, in studio), what they plan on doing with the prints, what they expect from me, what I expect from them, why I’m willing to do a TFP for them, are they going to do their own makeup, when are we to get together to take the shots. This takes about 30 min to 45 min. This helps avoid disappointments for both parties as if they can’t answer these questions then they are not serious with the shoot and I don’t waste anymore time on it. I have had a couple cancel due to so and so reason. But most of them have rescheduled at a later date. By making them meet you face to face this shows both parties have time invested and are serious about doing the shoot and help weed out those that are not serious.

 

[Scott G Spellman]

Jay-

Trade shoots such as TFCD are complicated, and there are several ways you can minimize no shows and other problems.

1) Treat the project the same as a client shoot. Clear communication, contracts, pre meeting, and pro styling are a requirement. Look at TFCD as training for a paying projects.

2) A pre meeting to review photo styles, clothing, hair and makeup styling, and the contract are an absolute requirement. It is better for a model to miss a pre-meeting than a shoot.

3) Realize that the value of your trade to the model is the quality of your pictures. If your work is not high quality, you will have problems with flakey models.

4) Build up your written references and comitment to give references from your models. Use this on your MM page to help the good models you have worked with. Likewise, I would also make a list of "not recomended" models on your MM too.

5) Its a basic fact that some people are less reliable than others professionally and otherwise. Good communication, active planning participation, and references are the best indicators of a good TFCD shoot.

Good Luck-
Scott

Well, I been shooting a few models from Model Mayhem on a TFP and
TFPCD relationship. Now I am just starting out but I have noticed
more than enough no Shows for the models. I am curious if you have
had any dealing with this and if you were able to make it more
reliable type of shooting. As of now my shooting is about 50%. Half
the time they come up with an excuse not to come. Car broke down
parents in the hospital ect.

So I am curious if you have done any pre-questions to sniff out if
they are really serious or not. I seen some of these girls photos on
the web site which are horrible. THey say they want to be a model but
in all honestly i am thinking they are just trying to earn a quick
buck and am not taking it seriously. Many young models will say Pay
or TPFCD to build thier portfolio. As it stand their Portfolio is
realy lacking any and I mean any Quality photo.

Has anybody made a better percentage of shows ?
Any experience you can give me ?

thanks
Jay

 

[Paul Grupp]

TFCD is great for situations where your studio is set up all the time, and if the model cancels or noshows, there is no loss -- you just do something else with that time. I've shot a few hundred TFCDs, and can say that there is no way to predict who will be reliable, and who won't. I've found that it's very counterintuitive too -- the models who communicate the most often end up being no-shows -- and meetings are no predicter either. And often, the flakiest, most unlikely-seeming girls tend out to be the most reliable. So just accept that no matter what you do, you're going to get a certain percentage of cancelations.

As your time gets more valuable, and as the shoot complexity goes up (makeup artist, stylist, rented stuff) I think a photographer is nuts to use a TFCD model. At this point, the risk becomes unacceptably high. In this economy, modeling rates are not that high -- pay a professional and reduce the risk and hassle.

Best,
Paul
http://photographersinthenews.com

 

[Paul Grupp]

I've done a couple TFCD shoots later after a hiautus of about a year.

What I'm discovering is that the models have been inundated with crappy experiences with "guys with cameras." They now typically ask for a lot of stuff that is a pain to deal with -- they want to leave the shoot with unedited images on their USB drives, they look harder at model releases, they want preapproval of images posted -- over all, a complete pain in the ss.

Like I said in the post above -- pay your models -- you'll get a better grade of model, and a lot less drama and hassle.

Best,
Paul
http://photographersinthenews.com

 

[vwgn]

MM and CL are the 2 biggest sources of flakes for models out there. Think about it like this: They paid nothing to post/respond there and they are looking for free stuff. There is no value on ANYTHING involved except thier time (to them anyway) and if something better comes along, then so what to you. Meeting before hand will definately weed out some flakes and is a good idea since if you need to go over model release and 2257 if doing nudes anyway. I have had horrible luck with MM and CL models, male and female, and almost expect a 1 in 3 ratio of models who follow thru. There are good ones there and you just have to be patient. I woul dalso suggest browsing around models who only accept paid work, and talking to them about a day rate or finding one thats fairly cheap (ALOT of $20-$40 hour models there) for a few hours and tell them the deal, and you value thier time, and they will value yours. Many of those models post higher rates than they actually charge to weed out all the dirty old men with a camera and viagra looking for free pix. If thier portfolio looks great they obviously care about modeling and you will get your money worth (99.9% of the time). I usually weed out alot off the top based on port alone. If they have 15 cell phone pics, they are losers..

 

[William Carson]

Sometimes your real friends tell you the truth. Your professionalism is shown by your knowledge of correct spelling and grammar. I, as a model, would bail on any advertised photographer that did not know how to spell. No offense meant. As I said - your real friends tell you the truth.
Will

MM and CL are the 2 biggest sources of flakes for models out there.
Think about it like this: They paid nothing to post/respond there and
they are looking for free stuff. There is no value on ANYTHING
involved except thier time (to them anyway) and if something better
comes along, then so what to you. Meeting before hand will definately
weed out some flakes and is a good idea since if you need to go over
model release and 2257 if doing nudes anyway. I have had horrible
luck with MM and CL models, male and female, and almost expect a 1 in
3 ratio of models who follow thru. There are good ones there and you
just have to be patient. I woul dalso suggest browsing around models
who only accept paid work, and talking to them about a day rate or
finding one thats fairly cheap (ALOT of $20-$40 hour models there)
for a few hours and tell them the deal, and you value thier time, and
they will value yours. Many of those models post higher rates than
they actually charge to weed out all the dirty old men with a camera
and viagra looking for free pix. If thier portfolio looks great they
obviously care about modeling and you will get your money worth
(99.9% of the time). I usually weed out alot off the top based on
port alone. If they have 15 cell phone pics, they are losers..