3 new Pentax DSLR in 2009 !

[SpaceDoc]

After the first of the year no one will be buying squat, they will be
too busy paying off there credit cards that they used for x-mas
presents

There are many countries where people buy with what they have, not on
credit....
Most people in the Neherlands who do use credit cards make sure they
have no negative balance.

Me? I wiould not dream of buying anything if I did not have the money
at hand....

Same here!

The american credit (card) crisis is something very difficult to understand for us europeans!

btw: as jannemand pointed out: I would not buy anything I can afford at any moment. only things you'd buy on credit is a/ a house and b/ a car (but the car only if needed urgently because of acute failure of the old one) ... therefore the only real item one should buy on money lent is a house! and yes: one should only buy a house if one is able to pay it back. and also is willing to pay it back. when I bought my house I consulted a banker friend of mine who confirmed: the cheapest mortage plan is the one not existing! get off your debts as soon as possible.

I know that not buying on credit implies that sometimes one has to wait a little bit until one will be able to feed the desire. but as it's much cheaper that way at the end one will be able to feed on even more desire! ;-)

SpaceDoc
.

 

[jamesm007]

My guess is that Sony DSLR business is are gone before Pentax....

I dont disagree on anything you have posted. The last time I bought a TV I spent the money and bought a Sony Trinitron I was so happy the pic was clearly great. In those days Sony CD players, Walkmans, and other electronics where the best (except Hi Fi). Now my research and the sales man had me buy a Samsung LCD it is supposed to be better than the Sonys in the same price range. The memory chips in the Notebook are from Samsung, probably the LCD and and CD/DVD drive comes from them as well (I don't know), my home PC LCD and drives are Samsung. Samsung is huge now compared to years ago. Now Samsung is doing well in P/S cameras in many markets; from research they are number one in some parts of the world. They talk serious about dSLRs and if fact made the CMOS for Pentax K20. But as a GX10 owner here in the USA I can tell you they are non-existent.

What do you think Samsungs plans are for dSLRs, and what role will Pentax play with Samsung in the future.

IMO I feel the are taking a very safe road right now, they are just testing and watching. There is no doubt they have the resources to compete, so does Sony. So your statement of Sony going out of business in the dSLR market had me think what will Samsung do seeing there is no real money to be made, or will they correct any mistakes Sony may have made and have a go. IMO I also believe its partnership with Pentax was a good one and wished it was closer. I see Samsung putting the heat on in the CCD/CMOS area maybe others dont see it, or share IMO. The other high mega-pixel CMOS sensors from Samsungs rivals all seem to have either high NR or problems of one sort or another; Sony A350 CMOS is clearly not in the same league. Nikons new 12.9 CMOS is good but does not have the low level detail of the Samsung CMOS, the Canons EOS 50D does not have quite as much detail as the Pentax K20 (dpreview blamed the lens lol). So Samsung can put on some serious pressure and heat in the mega-pixel wars, and we all know mega-pixels sell. What if Samsung comes out with a clean well performing 20meg APS-C sensor for the K30, and a FF 30meg sensor? Samsung can do it if anyone can. Pentax/Hoya/Samsung, although Samsung is an outsider I hope will have a great dSLR future.
--
jamesm007,
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z77/jamesm700/

 

[*isteve]

Third they have shown a serious commitment to not just camera
launches but also lenses etc. They have cameras for entry level SLR
through to full frame enthusiasts. The A900 is a bit of an odd fish,
but it is hard to say that for high resolution low ISO it is not one
of the best cameras.

Now Sony have that market share they can pick off the repeat business
sales. and in 2 to 3 years time they stand a good chance of the next
camera body buy, and there is no reason to say they cannot charge
Canikon prices.

The problem is that Sonys mid and higher end cameras and lenses do
not sell. Their entry level cameras have sold to the P&S crowd that
for the most part are not repeat customers. Besides, it is these
customers that are dissapearing fast in todays economic reality...

I agree.

Sony have a major issue. For "enthusiast" sales they rely on a selection of very expensive Minolta legacy glass most of which is not optimised for digital or even available in most shops. Much of the rest of their lens R&D has gone into the low end market. I would LOVE to know how many A900's have sold to non-Minolta users. In this sense they have Pentax's problem. The only market for an FF Pentax are the 10 or so people who collect old Pentax lenses! The difference is Pentax did not spend millions developing one...

As you say, quite rightly, the mindshare value of low end buyers is limited. They buy very few accessories and if they grade up they are just as likely to swap ship for something better once their knowledge level improves. Having said that Pentax are chasing the same market, though not in the same way. Sony are cutting their own throats on price which is a workable policy ONLY if you are predicting substantial market growth to pay back the losses.

The white Km indicates Pentax are going soft and cuddly and chasing demographics instead. This is OK up to a point, but at best it can be easily emulated by everyone else, and at worst it will simply alienate existing fans without gaining any new ones. Worse, the ones it DOES gain have no more brand loyalty to cameras than existing P&S users.

So although Hoyas "small tough" strategy sounds more appealing I will wait and see how they reconcile that with what I am seeing (white cameras get dirty very quickly so thats not very outdoorsy) and hearing (US strategy aimed at under 30's who will soon be out of a job) in terms of incorporating other demographics in their product strategy. Back-packers, travellers and outdoor types are a natural market for them. Nor does it exclude women and it certainly includes me!

Moreover if they manage to make some small, tough weatherproof cameras which dont compromise on IQ and build quality then I suspect a lot of Nikon and Canon owners will consider them as their hobby cameras and leave the 1DS at home during the weekends (I know some that do already). My primary reason for NOT wanting a FF camera is the all up kit weight.

--
Steve

Any fool can take a picture OF something. Its much harder to take a picture ABOUT something.

 

[DLBlack]

*isteve wrote:
[snip]

The white Km indicates Pentax are going soft and cuddly and chasing
demographics instead. This is OK up to a point, but at best it can be
easily emulated by everyone else, and at worst it will simply
alienate existing fans without gaining any new ones. Worse, the ones
it DOES gain have no more brand loyalty to cameras than existing P&S
users.

So although Hoyas "small tough" strategy sounds more appealing I will
wait and see how they reconcile that with what I am seeing (white
cameras get dirty very quickly so thats not very outdoorsy) and
hearing (US strategy aimed at under 30's who will soon be out of a
job) in terms of incorporating other demographics in their product
strategy. Back-packers, travellers and outdoor types are a natural
market for them. Nor does it exclude women and it certainly includes
me!

I agree! The white Km does seem to conflict with the "tough" strategy, but changing the color of the plastic body doesn't cost much and it might sell if they can get it into stores.

The 2 new cameras that are planned for released is of interest to me. I like the "small tough" vision of these future cameras. Both Samsung and Pentax mentioned smaller camera bodies. So it sounds like it will happen. Pentax mentioned image quality equal to FF digital. This might mean better image quality over the current Samsung sensor.

Moreover if they manage to make some small, tough weatherproof
cameras which dont compromise on IQ and build quality then I suspect
a lot of Nikon and Canon owners will consider them as their hobby
cameras and leave the 1DS at home during the weekends (I know some
that do already). My primary reason for NOT wanting a FF camera is
the all up kit weight.

I do agree a small, tough, weatherproof camera that don't compromise on IQ and built quality will sell to non-Pentax photograhers even if it is for a second system.

Back when the K20D was released early this year Pentax did mention that they will have two more new cameras out by the end of 2008. Only the Km made it to market. The reason the other one (the APC-S K1D) is any ones guess. So are we really going to see two new cameras and a slight upgrade to one camera next year is anyone's guess. Both the K200D and K20D are due for replacement if the 18 month production cycle is going to be maintained. Being smaller, tougher and better image quality would be nice.

Dave

 

[Voff]

I agree! The white Km does seem to conflict with the "tough"
strategy, but changing the color of the plastic body doesn't cost
much and it might sell if they can get it into stores.

I don't think one should read to much into that white camera. The important message is that Pentax will make niche models; some in the future will probably be more in tune with our wants.

Besides, the the K-m is targeted towards women and a white "fashion" item make marketing sense.

 

[*isteve]

I agree! The white Km does seem to conflict with the "tough"
strategy, but changing the color of the plastic body doesn't cost
much and it might sell if they can get it into stores.

I don't think one should read to much into that white camera. The
important message is that Pentax will make niche models; some in the
future will probably be more in tune with our wants.
Besides, the the K-m is targeted towards women and a white "fashion"
item make marketing sense.

True, but I would like to see a bit more about how their strategy plays out. I dont trust bling for its own sake because bling buyers are not reliable repeat customers and have an attention span measured in minutes.

If the bling has something behind it (superb quality, exceptional ruggedness, amazing performance etc) then it will always find a market and will attract loyal - even fanatical - fans, even if the price is a little higher.

I want to see something "real" to back up the Hoya statement. There is huge scope for effective niche product placement in cameras - but if you want to go for volume/market share you cant afford to leave the mainstream. If they are smart enough, Pentax can establish a reputation for aspirational products outside the mainstream BEFORE returning to the mass market from a position of strength as the recovery gains momentum.

Fingers crossed.
--
Steve

Any fool can take a picture OF something. Its much harder to take a picture ABOUT something.

 

[jeffkrol]

unless this paper is wrong:

Not only do a smaller percentage of Italian and Spanish households hold debt, but the

average amount of debt outstanding per household is considerably lower in the two

Mediterranean countries than in either of the other countries, as Table 4b shows. The

average amount of debt per household in the US is ten times that in Italy, five times

that in Spain and typically over 33% higher than that owed by Dutch households. This

difference is mainly due to the differences in mortgage debt held and less due to

differences in non-mortgage debt. For example, in the first half of the 1990s and early
in the 2000s the amount of non-mortgage debt—instalment loans, credit card debt,

educational debt and so on—in the Netherlands was around twice that held by Italian

households. Non mortgage debt held by Spanish households was very similar to that
in Italy. All three were around one third of the debt owed by US families.

Of course, since the distribution of debt owed is very positively skewed, in Italy the

median of total debt owed is zero. The same holds for the other countries for the lessprevalent
subcomponents. Table 4c shows the median values of debt owed by those

who have debt. This shows a subtly different picture. In the first half of the decade the

median debt owed, by those who have debt was actually larger in the Netherlands than
in the US, though this ranking is reversed by 2004. The median debt in Italy was
around a quarter of that in the Netherlands with Spanish households holding an

amount closer to Italian households than to Dutch households. Median mortgage debt
increased much faster in the US than in Holland, however with the growth between
2001 and 2004 in the US being particularly large. The growth of median mortgage

debt in Italy has also been rapid; it increased by over 110% in real terms between
1995 and 2004, but it was always between a quarter and a third of that for Dutch
households. Only in 2005 and 2006 do we see conditional medians surging in
Holland.
These differences are arguably caused by a combination of demand and supply

factors. Table 5 investigates this further. This Table shows that the percentage of....
http://www.qualteitems.com/images/07087.pdf
http://ideas.repec.org/p/dgr/uvatin/20070087.html
http://www.tinbergen.nl/

Now if we had all of our medical paid for our debt probably wouldn't be as high AND if our "middle class" actually earned salaries as high as your middle class.....
--
360 minutes from the prime meridian. (-5375min, 3.55sec) 1093' above sea level.

'The exposure meter is calibrated to some clearly defined standards and the user needs to adjust his working method and his subject matter to these values. It does not help to suppose all kinds of assumptions that do not exist.'
Erwin Puts

 

[JanneM]

How about: a thoroughly modern 67 - 67S, say - a compact body

They did. It was shelved.

They did? As in film 6x7 format body - you're not thinking about the digital 645? If so, it's a crying shame. I keep wanting the 67, but it's so dependent on a tripod I just can't justify it.

--
Pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jannem/
Blog: http://janneinosaka.blogspot.com

 

[KentG]

A lot of what you say I definitely agree with. However I do agree with DPreview about the 50D and the Canon 50/1.4. Both the Canon and Nikon 50mm lenses are very old designs and both are known to not be as good as the Pentax. But even the Pentax is not a newer design either. If DPreview wants to try and eliminate the lens as an issue they should think about using the Sigma 50/1.4 on all of their reviews. Or wait and see if they all come out with newer lenses like the new Pentax 55/1.4. Or use 100/2.8 macro lenses. Most older lenses don't use much LD glass. In fact really old ones often used lenses doped with elements like lead, arsenic, and some radioactive elements.

The higher the pixel density the higher the resolution and contrast the lens needs to keep up. This has been known since the early days of DSLRs. If the lens is good enough that it matches or exceeds the resolution limit of the sensor you are fine but most lenses, especially older ones have a hard time doing that regardless of the reputation of the older lenses. The theoretical APS-C limit of around 20 MP would probably limit the user to nothing but pro glass or 4x6 snapshots. At that density the size of the pixel will seriously compromise the gain amplifiers and further limit the number of photons they can collect. This would cause the high ISO limit to shorten further. Possibly newer technology might alleviate some of these issues. But the lens/sensor issue will not go away.

Since getting my K20D I'm retesting all of my lenses with it, my old K10D, and my *ist D, to see which work well at what pixel density.

As it is camera makers are constantly redesigning or reevaluating their kit lenses in light of the limits imposed by higher and higher pixel counts.
Kent Gittings

 

[shane gerrish]

the KM white was something completely different so maybe the other two will be complete surprises as well.
--
Shane,Gold Coast Aussie. Lens list in profile.
http://bigred4x4.blogspot.com/2008/01/welcome.html

 

[richardday]

I agree! The white Km does seem to conflict with the "tough"
strategy, but changing the color of the plastic body doesn't cost
much and it might sell if they can get it into stores.

I don't think one should read to much into that white camera. The
important message is that Pentax will make niche models; some in the
future will probably be more in tune with our wants.
Besides, the the K-m is targeted towards women and a white "fashion"
item make marketing sense.

True, but I would like to see a bit more about how their strategy
plays out. I dont trust bling for its own sake because bling buyers
are not reliable repeat customers and have an attention span measured
in minutes.

If the bling has something behind it (superb quality, exceptional
ruggedness, amazing performance etc) then it will always find a
market and will attract loyal - even fanatical - fans, even if the
price is a little higher.

I want to see something "real" to back up the Hoya statement. There
is huge scope for effective niche product placement in cameras - but
if you want to go for volume/market share you cant afford to leave
the mainstream. If they are smart enough, Pentax can establish a
reputation for aspirational products outside the mainstream BEFORE
returning to the mass market from a position of strength as the
recovery gains momentum.

Fingers crossed.

Body development is neccessary and interesting, but I would like to see some REAL attention paid to really high quality zoom development, especially in the standard range where the recent developments are a bit lacklustre (in other areas they are pretty good, i.e the DA*50-135, DA 10-17 and DA 12-24). I'm also hopeful that the DA*60-250 will match the 50-135 and we can be forever hopeful of a XXX-500mm big zoom. As Steve says, fingers crossed!

I will take this opportunity to bang on (again!) for something like a DA 15-73 f3.8 ED IF "Limited" zoom with outstanding IQ, better than anything the opposition can produce, i.e. in the tradition of the very best Pentax, Leica and Zeiss glass

Following Pentax's own strapline - BE BOLD, BE INSPIRED and above all BE INTERESTING ----- PENTAX

It's interesting, it's different, it's VERY Pentax, it's desirable - I'll buy one (and I'm sure I'm not alone)!
--
Richard Day - 'Carpe Diem!'
Gloucester UK