Hopefully a K30D is coming because next year I'm a buying if it is! 
Cheers,
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Sinan
http://sinantarlan.zenfolio.com/
Cheers,
--
Sinan
http://sinantarlan.zenfolio.com/
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3 new Pentax DSLR in 2009 !
- Thread starter plutozz
- Start date
strawman_John
Leading Member
Pentax was no3 in the market. When the market was growing that was the time to branch out. Of the not Canikon SLR suppliers Pentax was in the best position to go forward and grab a decent portion of the market.
Sony have in my mind done a couple of things.
First they have bought market share through low entry level model pricing, but that is an expected strategy from a number of markets they are in. Sell the body low cost, add premium for lenses and flash. Once people buy into a system there is a natural resistance to change (except in DPREVIEW land) due to the cost of selling lenses etc.
Next they have pitched their push in terms of new models very well etc as the market opened up. As SLR prices fell and more people upgraded they had their new models. So the market was growing.
Third they have shown a serious commitment to not just camera launches but also lenses etc. They have cameras for entry level SLR through to full frame enthusiasts. The A900 is a bit of an odd fish, but it is hard to say that for high resolution low ISO it is not one of the best cameras.
Now Sony have that market share they can pick off the repeat business sales. and in 2 to 3 years time they stand a good chance of the next camera body buy, and there is no reason to say they cannot charge Canikon prices.
The market is now smaller, so how will Pentax sell? with lower sales it the investment costs of lenses etc have to be spread on a smaller sales base. And at the moment it does not look like they are competing on technology, so that leaves price.
I hope I am wrong, but I would be surprised if both Pentax and Olympus are still in the SLR market.
Sony have in my mind done a couple of things.
First they have bought market share through low entry level model pricing, but that is an expected strategy from a number of markets they are in. Sell the body low cost, add premium for lenses and flash. Once people buy into a system there is a natural resistance to change (except in DPREVIEW land) due to the cost of selling lenses etc.
Next they have pitched their push in terms of new models very well etc as the market opened up. As SLR prices fell and more people upgraded they had their new models. So the market was growing.
Third they have shown a serious commitment to not just camera launches but also lenses etc. They have cameras for entry level SLR through to full frame enthusiasts. The A900 is a bit of an odd fish, but it is hard to say that for high resolution low ISO it is not one of the best cameras.
Now Sony have that market share they can pick off the repeat business sales. and in 2 to 3 years time they stand a good chance of the next camera body buy, and there is no reason to say they cannot charge Canikon prices.
The market is now smaller, so how will Pentax sell? with lower sales it the investment costs of lenses etc have to be spread on a smaller sales base. And at the moment it does not look like they are competing on technology, so that leaves price.
I hope I am wrong, but I would be surprised if both Pentax and Olympus are still in the SLR market.
Greg Lovern
Veteran Member
Maybe for a month or so while the K10D was at the tippy top of its sales curve. But all popular cameras do that sort of thing to the numbers briefly at the top of their sales curve. It doesn't mean Pentax was really #3 in market share.
Greg
--
Brand loyalty is a character flaw.
strawman_John
Leading Member
I thought the K10D marked the start of great things for Pentax, at the price it packed a lot in. And the K20D has been received a bit quietly, but again I thought it packed a lot in.
A faster lens development program, with a push on USM focusing and a better AF module and I think the K20D would be great.
And the entry cameras are fine as well. I thought it was a good basis for a push on more market share, but everything needs to advance together.
A faster lens development program, with a push on USM focusing and a better AF module and I think the K20D would be great.
And the entry cameras are fine as well. I thought it was a good basis for a push on more market share, but everything needs to advance together.
Greg Lovern
Veteran Member
Thanks, I hadn't been aware of that.
If Sony got their surge to a strong 3rd place of 13% by pricing the A200 very low and pushing it hard, then the sales would have gone to price shoppers, and would have come at the expense of the prior price leaders.
Though Pentax has sometimes had the least expensive DSLR, they haven't recently, probably not since the K110D, if not the DL. The K-m is sold only in a relatively pricy bundle, not as appealing to that demographic.
The price leaders I had been hearing a lot about were the Nikon D40 and the Olympus E-420. B&H shows the E-420 kit at US$400 after $50 rebate, and the D40 kit at $450 after $50 rebate. The A200 kit is $500. Even the Canon Rebel 1000D kit is less than the Sony at $476. So I'm not clear on how the A200 is at "rock bottom price".
In any case, the current cheapest Pentax kits are both US$700, probably not even looked at twice by price shoppers, and the inclusion of a non-bounce flash in the K-m kit probably has very little appeal. So Pentax was probably barely affected, if at all, by Sony's price-based surge. Instead, Sony's 13% would have come from Olympus, Nikon, and Canon.
Greg
Brand loyalty is a character flaw.
If Sony got their surge to a strong 3rd place of 13% by pricing the A200 very low and pushing it hard, then the sales would have gone to price shoppers, and would have come at the expense of the prior price leaders.
Though Pentax has sometimes had the least expensive DSLR, they haven't recently, probably not since the K110D, if not the DL. The K-m is sold only in a relatively pricy bundle, not as appealing to that demographic.
The price leaders I had been hearing a lot about were the Nikon D40 and the Olympus E-420. B&H shows the E-420 kit at US$400 after $50 rebate, and the D40 kit at $450 after $50 rebate. The A200 kit is $500. Even the Canon Rebel 1000D kit is less than the Sony at $476. So I'm not clear on how the A200 is at "rock bottom price".
In any case, the current cheapest Pentax kits are both US$700, probably not even looked at twice by price shoppers, and the inclusion of a non-bounce flash in the K-m kit probably has very little appeal. So Pentax was probably barely affected, if at all, by Sony's price-based surge. Instead, Sony's 13% would have come from Olympus, Nikon, and Canon.
Greg
--AFAIK market share is not always indicative of financial health. Sony
marketed aggressively the A200 at a rock bottom price. I guess this
is where their improved market share comes. They took that share of
the pie from everybody, included Canon & Nikon. I have to laugh when
some people say they took it from Pentax and Olympus as if the big 2
were out of reach. It remains to be see how much that invested money
came back as net profit for Sony.
--
Manu
Brand loyalty is a character flaw.
strawman_John
Leading Member
Now
A200 £229
1000D £245
D60 £249
E420 £239
Body only prices. But if you look at the trends and go back to July A200 price fell to about £240 while the rest were at @ £300 (1000D too new to track). So the rest have followed Sony down in price, but not gone as low.
By comparison the K200D is at £335, so they look to have given up on this market in the UK.
A200 £229
1000D £245
D60 £249
E420 £239
Body only prices. But if you look at the trends and go back to July A200 price fell to about £240 while the rest were at @ £300 (1000D too new to track). So the rest have followed Sony down in price, but not gone as low.
By comparison the K200D is at £335, so they look to have given up on this market in the UK.
This is not a real name
Leading Member
However the K200D is not really comparable to any of those cameras in my opinion; it is pitched slightly higher, hence the higher price. This is where the K2000D/K-m comes in, as I would compare that with the A200, D60 etc.
In my opinion the K2000D should be seen as filling the entry level role that the K100D and K110D filled in the past when Pentax was often the cheapest DSLR available. I think Pentax suffered by not having such a positioned camera sooner, but hopefully the K2000D will do the trick.
ManuH
Veteran Member
I'm not sure they were #3 but back in 2006-2007, Sony had only one camera, the A100 and Olympus did launch the E-3 only at the end of 2007. The competition was much less strong back then.
They cannot do sell overpriced accessories at will. Third parties for lenses and flashes are certainly available. And a lot of entry-level DSLR buyers will not go beyond the kit lenses, so I'm not sure that strategy really works.
Sony has a strong advantage compared to Pentax, Olympus and even Nikon. They build and develop sensors. The A350 14.2MP CCD has not been seen in any DSLR. They launched the 24MP FF before Nikon and for much less. Here it's probably a good thing that Pentax found another sensor provider for their flagship.
I beg to differ. Yes they are lagging behind the pack for AF speed and FPS but they have what is probably the best APS-C sensor. At least they could brag about being the highest resolution APS-C sensor for at least 7 months.
You're worrying too much
Anything can happen but you don't always need double digits market share to survive.--
Manu
Sony is going down now...Cut appox. 15 000 (!!!!) jobs and plan to close 5 plants of photo and electronic division. You can see such information in business news.
It's not right time to praise Sony...It's not first Sony's marketing error.
A900 has no good PR and the line of pro lenses are very weak and expensive.
The most pragmatic will survive.
Greg Lovern
Veteran Member
Given Thom Hogan's propensity for finding and commenting on threads in which he is mentioned, it's interesting that he hasn't said a word in this thread.
Knowing Thom, I'd say (a) he has probably read the pertinent parts of this thread, along with the Hoya report referenced in the OP, and (b) if he still had any confidence that his recent prediction of Pentax's imminent doom ("death call") was correct, he would have said something here.
It's also interesting that none of Thom's fans have accused me of being the spawn of Satan for pointing out a likely discrepancy between a Thom prediction and actual reality. Where's the "Thom has forgotten more about photography than you'll ever know" love?
Greg
Brand loyalty is a character flaw.
Knowing Thom, I'd say (a) he has probably read the pertinent parts of this thread, along with the Hoya report referenced in the OP, and (b) if he still had any confidence that his recent prediction of Pentax's imminent doom ("death call") was correct, he would have said something here.
It's also interesting that none of Thom's fans have accused me of being the spawn of Satan for pointing out a likely discrepancy between a Thom prediction and actual reality. Where's the "Thom has forgotten more about photography than you'll ever know" love?
Greg
--
Brand loyalty is a character flaw.
Sony have been buying their market share at a loss. This was done in an expanding and great market. Now the marked has collapsed and Sonys warehouses are full of products already priced at basement prices. Sony will lay off 16 000 people and quit non-core business. My guess is that Sony DSLR business is are gone before Pentax....
The problem is that Sonys mid and higher end cameras and lenses do not sell. Their entry level cameras have sold to the P&S crowd that for the most part are not repeat customers. Besides, it is these customers that are dissapearing fast in todays economic reality...
Nothing basically. Sony is loosing money on the DSLR business.
They have stolen customers from Pentax but Pentax main problem is that they have been without a true entry level camera until now. And the fact that they lack Sonys distribution and sales channels. The K-m (K2000) should sell better than the K200D and K20D combined; the market segemnt is that much larger.
Yes. "Types" is just an unfortunate translation issue....
Unlikely.....
They did. It was shelved.
Kurt Schilling
Forum Enthusiast
Hmmm.... a lot of people here are talking about cameras witg GPS.... taking for granted that you mean 'Global Positioning System' - WHAT ON EARTH could anyone want that in a camera for????
I sincerely hope you are joking - took that for granted in the beginning, but it keeps coming up!
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Kurt S.
I sincerely hope you are joking - took that for granted in the beginning, but it keeps coming up!
--
Kurt S.
Fl_Gulfer
Veteran Member
After the first of the year no one will be buying squat, they will be too busy paying off there credit cards that they used for x-mas presents since most got layed off after thanksgiving and have no money for food and power. If it wasn't for the price of gas dropping no one would have even shopped for presents. the only things that have sold this season are computer games. Thats because no one will have money to leave there house,(if they still have a house).
The only people talking about buying camera products are the people in the forums, and there isn't that many people talking about it in here. You may see high numbers on replys to some subjects but if you look its the same 20 people talking in all of them.
The economy is going to get much worse before it starts to get better. Most people are taking there money out of the banks and hiding it. I talked to alot of my friends around the country and they are saying the same thing.
I see more and more people giving up on pentax since they can't even fix there chitty AF problems in the past 3 years, or release a 60-250 lens.
Good Luck Pentax
The only people talking about buying camera products are the people in the forums, and there isn't that many people talking about it in here. You may see high numbers on replys to some subjects but if you look its the same 20 people talking in all of them.
The economy is going to get much worse before it starts to get better. Most people are taking there money out of the banks and hiding it. I talked to alot of my friends around the country and they are saying the same thing.
I see more and more people giving up on pentax since they can't even fix there chitty AF problems in the past 3 years, or release a 60-250 lens.
Good Luck Pentax
janneman02
Veteran Member
There are many countries where people buy with what they have, not on credit....
Most people in the Neherlands who do use credit cards make sure they have no negative balance.
Me? I wiould not dream of buying anything if I did not have the money at hand....
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