3 new Pentax DSLR in 2009 !

[PeterZheng]

Hoya announces financial reports result of 2008 (2nd quarter)
including 3 new Pentax DSLRs !

来年はこの一眼レフカメラについて, マイナーバージョンも含め3 種類くらい出していきたいと考えています。

3 種類 = three kinds. ( three classes)

perhaps Per-class has a model with itself?

----
PeterZheng

 

[VLampa]

Philips delivered that sensor to Contax, which shipped it in the
Contax "N Digital" DSLR. The N Digital was announced in 2000 and
shipped in the spring of 2002, 1.5 years before the first Pentax
DSLR, the *ist D, shipped.

The same chip was also used on some medium-format digital backs,
though I don't know which ones.

The main problem with the sensor was high noise above ISO 100. Some
Contax N Digital owners loved the sensor at ISO 25, 50, and 100. The
camera was also faulted for other issues that weren't the sensor's
fault. I gather that the big-spending medium-format digital back
customers were satisfied with the sensor too.

I meant deliver in that sense, that the sensor isn't up to scratch in high ISO situations. Upon re-reading my statement, it did seem to read another way. My apologies.

I'm not so sure about Contax N Digital owners loving the sensor, since I wasn't all too interested in cameras when it came out, but I'll hazard a guess that their Zeiss lenses played a significant part in their opinion about that camera.

Another issue is that not too long after the N Digital was released,
Canon and Kodak came out with 35FF DSLRs that offered more bang for
buck. Like Contax film SLRs, the N Digital was very expensive.

That's also what I read about the camera in a piece that was published in Luminous Landscape (I think it's still there).

Sensor issues aside, the MZ-D would probably have been a better
overall camera than the Contax N Digital. And Pentax certainly would
have priced it much lower than the Contax. Pentax could have capped
the ISO at 100 and released it as a low volume product that would
lend prestige to its later APS-C DSLRs. Obviously it wouldn't appeal
to sports shooters, but not everyone needs high ISO, especially back
then when most people were still shooting film anyway. When I was
shooting film, I mostly used ISO 100.

I think Pentax would be in a somewhat stronger position today if they
had released the MZ-D when the sensor became available in early 2002,
with ISO capped at 100. But I may be the only person in the world who
thinks so.

Greg

I'm pretty sure people heavily invested in Pentax glass would've bought that MZ-D, though not at the volumes the K-m/K200D/K20D are expected to sell for.

That said, I will agree that reputation goes a long way in helping with entry-level sales, and that is why I'm not against a 35mm or 645 digital offering from Pentax, though I also would understand their reluctance to do so in predominantly bear-ish market conditions. Even Sony feels the need to raise prices (in addition to lopping off employees) to weather out the storm. I'm not sure if those price increases would include the imaging line, though.

 

[GaryDeM]

why and who would want video on a dslr? i do not. if someone wants video, get a video camera. it works far better that any crippled dslr video. i say crippled because many many features on the video only cam are gone on the dslr video.

i simply do not want video on a dslr to only keep the beginner user, who is crossinover from a digicam p&s, happy. the dslr is a camera for a certain use. and that is to take still pics, why mess it up with a lot of digicam features? noone put super 8 into the film 35mm slrs when they were in there heyday to take movies, why do it now?

 

[Martin Brand]

yes. there is clearly a strategy and a commitment.

i am a little amazed how much of the discussion on this forum is around full frame sensors again, when they are not mentioned in the announcement at all.

they said they want to emphasize combining toughness with being small and light. i guess noone is discussing this as people aren't excited enough about it?

i for one would love a body that can do what the K20D can do, is done to a very high build quality standard, yet maybe the size not much bigger than K-M but no a plastic toy like normal small cameras. it could just be a beautiful piece of equipment, the way the small limited primes are (and be very nice paired with them).

maybe nothing groundbreaking (just like the limited primes are not super high tech), but a great picture taking piece of equipment that is unique vs. what you can get from the other brands. a little bit like leica found their niche with the M rangefinder cameras. great optics, small body, amazing build.

sounds more likely to me than a full frame sensor, based on what they actually said.

Clearly Hoya is preparing a big push for Pentax DSLRs, with product
strategy and marketing centered around weatherproof and small.

It's the polar opposite of what Thom Hogan recently predicted for
Pentax. In full cognizance of both the recent huge drop in DSLR sales
and of worse yet to come, Hoya, far from giving up on Pentax, is
preparing relaunch Pentax DSLR cameras and accessories with renewed
strength. And, the renewed emphasis on a niche will help protect them
from the mainstream market dominance of Nikon & Canon.

(here are the details of Thom Hogan's recent predictions about Pentax)
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=29980583

I'd say Pentax's future looks rather bright.

Greg

"Essentially, the products we are now producing and selling were
developed last
summer or autumn, with a roadmap that lacked strategy in my view. "

"lacked strategy". When I went to business school, I was taught that
when you are not the big player, you have to have some Unique Selling
Point to get people to notice you. This is what I believe he is
referring to.

--------

"As I said in the previous meeting, we remade a completely new
roadmap for the next fiscal year in accordance with the "scrap &
build" policy:"

"scrap" the old roadmap - so they started anew, presumably with an
emphasis on the USPs that they determined would be strategic.

---------

" creating unique cameras of a new and different field, "

"unique", "new", "different". they will try to put an emphasis on
something that the others don't really offer, both in marketing and
in the development of the product. so what is this new emphasis?

-----------

"we will relaunch ourselves next year as a manufacturer of all-weather
cameras which are strong outdoors, highly water-resistnat,
splash-proof, and dustproof,small and light, easily portable and
tough (durable)."

"relaunch", so they want to change their whole market positioning. he
could not be clearer on what the positioning will be

1) strong, resistant, dust/splash-proof, tough, durable
2) small, light, easily portable

point 2 seems to also be confirmed by the recent Samsung interview:

"The GX-20 was not very different in appearance to the GX10," he
admitted, "but from the GX-20 to the next model will be a much bigger
change." He would not reveal any specific features, specifications or
even the name of the new camera except that it would be SMALLER IN
SIZE THAN ITS PREDECESSORS, and would be launched in the second half
of 2009."
【

--
Brand loyalty is a character flaw.

 

[Joe Ogiba]

why and who would want video on a dslr? i do not. if someone wants
video, get a video camera. it works far better that any crippled dslr
video. i say crippled because many many features on the video only
cam are gone on the dslr video.

i simply do not want video on a dslr to only keep the beginner user,
who is crossinover from a digicam p&s, happy. the dslr is a camera
for a certain use. and that is to take still pics, why mess it up
with a lot of digicam features? noone put super 8 into the film 35mm
slrs when they were in there heyday to take movies, why do it now?

--

It would cost $100,000 to get a HD camcorder with interchangeable lenses to do videos like the Canon 5D MKII.
http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=2326

 

[gazonk]

why and who would want video on a dslr?

I think it would be an ok feature. Most of the time, I'd rather bring only my DSLR, but often bring my video camera in addition for recording occasional clips of the family. Even a rather clumsy video mode would probably be good enough for most of that work.
--
Espen

 

[DLBlack]

Well said.

It does sound like the cameras might be smaller, which if done right is a good thing.

Here is my guess on the camera(s);

1. K200D replacement. It does seem that the K200D is soon to be discontinued. It will have a smaller body, many even closer to the K-m is size. Hopefully it will move up-spec with many of the features of the K20D. I would like to see the FB/BF adjustments, two control wheels, live-view and a penta-prizm. Hopefully the the AF system is improved

2. The K20D will get a GPS and myabe a new AF system upgrade.

3. A complete unkown. Could be a late in the year K20D replacement or a K-m upgrade (weather sealing and live-view), a 645D, or a K1D with a crop sensor (might be slightly larger than the 1.5 crop) and pro-specs (metal body, 5+ fps, better viewfinder (100% view) and a lot better AF system).

Interesting times in deed. I don't read anything that would make me think a FF camera.

Dave

i am a little amazed how much of the discussion on this forum is
around full frame sensors again, when they are not mentioned in the
announcement at all.

they said they want to emphasize combining toughness with being small
and light. i guess noone is discussing this as people aren't excited
enough about it?

i for one would love a body that can do what the K20D can do, is done
to a very high build quality standard, yet maybe the size not much
bigger than K-M but no a plastic toy like normal small cameras. it
could just be a beautiful piece of equipment, the way the small
limited primes are (and be very nice paired with them).

maybe nothing groundbreaking (just like the limited primes are not
super high tech), but a great picture taking piece of equipment that
is unique vs. what you can get from the other brands. a little bit
like leica found their niche with the M rangefinder cameras. great
optics, small body, amazing build.

sounds more likely to me than a full frame sensor, based on what they
actually said.

Clearly Hoya is preparing a big push for Pentax DSLRs, with product
strategy and marketing centered around weatherproof and small.

It's the polar opposite of what Thom Hogan recently predicted for
Pentax. In full cognizance of both the recent huge drop in DSLR sales
and of worse yet to come, Hoya, far from giving up on Pentax, is
preparing relaunch Pentax DSLR cameras and accessories with renewed
strength. And, the renewed emphasis on a niche will help protect them
from the mainstream market dominance of Nikon & Canon.

(here are the details of Thom Hogan's recent predictions about Pentax)
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=29980583

I'd say Pentax's future looks rather bright.

Greg

"Essentially, the products we are now producing and selling were
developed last
summer or autumn, with a roadmap that lacked strategy in my view. "

"lacked strategy". When I went to business school, I was taught that
when you are not the big player, you have to have some Unique Selling
Point to get people to notice you. This is what I believe he is
referring to.

--------

"As I said in the previous meeting, we remade a completely new
roadmap for the next fiscal year in accordance with the "scrap &
build" policy:"

"scrap" the old roadmap - so they started anew, presumably with an
emphasis on the USPs that they determined would be strategic.

---------

" creating unique cameras of a new and different field, "

"unique", "new", "different". they will try to put an emphasis on
something that the others don't really offer, both in marketing and
in the development of the product. so what is this new emphasis?

-----------

"we will relaunch ourselves next year as a manufacturer of all-weather
cameras which are strong outdoors, highly water-resistnat,
splash-proof, and dustproof,small and light, easily portable and
tough (durable)."

"relaunch", so they want to change their whole market positioning. he
could not be clearer on what the positioning will be

1) strong, resistant, dust/splash-proof, tough, durable
2) small, light, easily portable

point 2 seems to also be confirmed by the recent Samsung interview:

"The GX-20 was not very different in appearance to the GX10," he
admitted, "but from the GX-20 to the next model will be a much bigger
change." He would not reveal any specific features, specifications or
even the name of the new camera except that it would be SMALLER IN
SIZE THAN ITS PREDECESSORS, and would be launched in the second half
of 2009."
【

--
Brand loyalty is a character flaw.

 

[Roland Mabo]

Hoya announces financial reports result of 2008 (2nd quarter)
including 3 new Pentax DSLRs !

来年はこの一眼レフカメラについて, マイナーバージョンも含め3 種類くらい出していきたいと考えています。

3 種類 = three kinds. ( three classes)

Now we're getting somewhere!
And what types (!) of classes would those be?
--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo

 

[Caat]

Hoya announces financial reports result of 2008 (2nd quarter)
including 3 new Pentax DSLRs !

来年はこの一眼レフカメラについて, マイナーバージョンも含め3 種類くらい出していきたいと考えています。

3 種類 = three kinds. ( three classes)

Now we're getting somewhere!
And what types (!) of classes would those be?

The trouble is classes could still mean a range of things

Class in terms of:

Positioning (beginner, intermidiate, pro etc)

Sensor (APS-C, APS-H, MF etc)

Camera Design (EVIL, DSLR etc)

One thing I'd say is that any posited K20D GPS I would expect to have at least 3.5fps to match the K-M.

--
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/charleycoleman

 

[Hythloday]

I see. So it's essential to you even if SOME PEOPLE SAY it's "no
good". Because those people are wrong. If those people were right
about it being "no good", then it would not be essential to you. But
they're not, so it is.

I have read the tests in which the tester says that the anti dust system does not work. I feel those tests are quite unrealistic. Sometimes when I change lenses there is a dust particle on the sensor. When I let the sensor be shaken 3 or 4 times, I am no longer bothered by it.

I had two K100D bodies and I always felt that the K100D Super was quite an upgrade: SDM, anti dust system and updated menus.

The K200D may technically be more of an upgrade, but some options are absolutely not essential, e.g. Dust Alert. What I like about my K200D is the higher MPs. There is quite a difference between a 6MP and a 10MP camera. However, the K200D is more complicated in the sense that you have to find the best settings. The K100D Super is a nice, uncomplicated camera.

I like photography in my own way and really don't care what other people say. It is a good thing that there is quite a choice in cameras so each person can find his or her camera with options which may seem ideal to that person.

 

[szewczenkowa]

I would love to see on new k300/k30:

DIRECT BUTTONS for quick accces to most actions, like WB or ISO - the way like in Canon 400D: button+dial wheel, (NOT button and than cursors and than pressing ok), perfectly like in Canon 10/20/30/40D where almost everything is direct on body, not buried in menus...
The new K-m already has it, so chances are...
Additional wheel in k300 would be warm welcomed but not crucial.
Not more megapixels, not more useless gadgets.
Live view not necessary, but could be; you can always turn it off.
Top lcd panel is a must be.
+some overall quickness (remember how long it takes to rotate image?)

 

[strawman_John]

Go read the numbers again. I read it as a

"we are in trouble" Just go look at how poor the financial performance was, and how badly they have done when the market was growing. Sorry this looked like statements from a company that is lost.

Sad as I would like to see Pentax continue, but it is on the line Thom predicted.

 

[bjmano]

I'm afraid arguments like you're won't matter. If it's in a pro level Canon and and Nikon D90, the decision is already made. We have to evolve with the technology. Btw, I don't think it will make the camera that much more expensive, it's not like more physical parts are being put in. If you don't like the feature, just don't use it. There are many feature I don't use on my K20d (like anything other than the center point af). Same goes for liveview, never used it.

why and who would want video on a dslr? i do not. if someone wants
video, get a video camera. it works far better that any crippled dslr
video. i say crippled because many many features on the video only
cam are gone on the dslr video.

i simply do not want video on a dslr to only keep the beginner user,
who is crossinover from a digicam p&s, happy. the dslr is a camera
for a certain use. and that is to take still pics, why mess it up
with a lot of digicam features? noone put super 8 into the film 35mm
slrs when they were in there heyday to take movies, why do it now?

--
benjamin - bjmano

 

[Roland Mabo]

But K10D and K20D has direct access to ISO:

OK-button + front dial OR Sv-mode OR Av and Tv-modes programmed to have ISO on 2nd dial.

As for white balance, they all do white balance bracketing.

--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo

 

[JelleNL]

I'd kill for video in the next Pentax DSLR! To be able to shoot HD video with the briliant Pentax glass and narrow DOF, perfect. You could also use a normal video cam with a 35 DOF converter, but that is really expensive and not ideal.
As a nature photographer/filmer I'd love to have both in one system!

JelleSE
--
http://www.jelledobma.com

 

[paulkienitz]

It will be interesting what those 3 new ones are. Hopefully, it will
include a full frame model.

They burned that bridge years ago.

Pentax is now the only 35mm DSLR maker out of
the original Big 6 not to have a full frame DSLR. The other members
of the Big 6 with full frame models are of course Minolta (Sony),
Nikon, and Canon. 2 members of the Big 6, i.e. Konica and Olympus,
have either folded or stopped making 35mm format SLR cameras.

Somehow 3 out of 6 turns into all except Pentax?

 

[DLBlack]

It will be interesting what those 3 new ones are. Hopefully, it will
include a full frame model.

They burned that bridge years ago.

The bridge might be burnt, but it could always be rebuilt when conditions are right. I really don't expect the right conditions (low high quality sensors & FF lenses) until after 2010.

In the mean time It is interesting guessing what the 3 dslr cameras will be. A year ago they were talking for a pro-level apc-s camera that will be released this year. It didn't make it.

My guesses are:

1: A K20D update early in 2009 with GPS and a few other mirror upgrades like improved liveview. I wouldn't expect many hardware updates, just improvements that can be made with firmware. Name might be K20D Trekker.

2: A K200D replacement. Totally new camera of smaller size, close to K-m size with a lot of the specs of the K20D. It will be the camera that Sansung mentioned they were coming out with and it will be smaller. Rumors and even a Pentax web-page has the K200D being discontinued. It could be a great camera for these DA Limited lenses. Many the name could be K-Ltd.

3. The third camera will not make it. Just like this year Pentax claimed they were going to release two new cameras. One below the K200D and one above the K20D. Only the one below the K200D made it to the market. With today's economy it will be difficult to release mulitple new cameras. Hopefully the K20D with GPS will have enough photographic improvements to increase it's live cycle for another year.

Now what camera specific lenses are they going to release with these new cameras. Since the announcement did mention releasing lenses at the same time as the cameras. Maybe a mid-level weather-sealed lens or release the DA Limited lenses with weather-sealing.

Hopefully the continue delay of the DA*60-250 will not be delaying the other lenses on the roadmap.

Dave

[snip]

 

[VLampa]

yes. there is clearly a strategy and a commitment.

i am a little amazed how much of the discussion on this forum is
around full frame sensors again, when they are not mentioned in the
announcement at all.

Oh, you know the drill. Some people here think that if you're not doing what Canon or Nikon does, then they're automatically a failure.

they said they want to emphasize combining toughness with being small
and light. i guess noone is discussing this as people aren't excited
enough about it?

I know I am. I bought into Pentax for the amazing value in getting weather seals in the lower end models. Hopefully, they could release consumer-grade sealed lenses to complete the lineup, too.

 

[Greg Lovern]

What part of this statement by Hoya in reference to Pentax, made in full cognizance of both the recent huge drop in DSLR sales and of worse yet to come...

"We will relaunch ourselves next year as a manufacturer of all-weather cameras which are strong outdoors, highly water-resistant, splash-proof, and dustproof, small and light, easily portable and tough (durable)."

...sounds to you like a confirmation of Thom's prediction that Hoya will soon dump Pentax due to low ROI, and that Pentax will be gone by 2010 -- in The Thom's words, Pentax's "death call"?

Greg

Go read the numbers again. I read it as a

"we are in trouble" Just go look at how poor the financial
performance was, and how badly they have done when the market was
growing. Sorry this looked like statements from a company that is
lost.

Sad as I would like to see Pentax continue, but it is on the line
Thom predicted.
--

--
Brand loyalty is a character flaw.

 

[rt22306]

..I would like to see what comes out in Spring, 2009. I almost moved up to the K20D from the K10D but; with the K20D successor perhaps coming out in time for the seasons of peak activity for me outdoors (loved the segment of the report of Pentax re-positioning itself for the all weather field camera market share, or something to that effect) I'll wait just a bit longer to see what Pentax steps out with.

--
The Last of the Yashicans.