S100fs Successor?

[Pixelizer]

Sorry if this has been covered, but a search didn't turn it up.

Does anyone have any inside scoop on a replacement/successor for the S100fs? I'm not a Fuji owner right now, so I don't know when they tend to update their model line.

According to the reviewers, there are a couple of small issues with the camera that I figured might be addressed in a successor model ... any word on that???

Thanks!

--
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

 

[Kim Letkeman]

Sorry if this has been covered, but a search didn't turn it up.

Does anyone have any inside scoop on a replacement/successor for the
S100fs? I'm not a Fuji owner right now, so I don't know when they
tend to update their model line.

According to the reviewers, there are a couple of small issues with
the camera that I figured might be addressed in a successor model ...
any word on that???

No rumors ... but it might help for you to understand that Fuji have had severe CA for a long time ... the Fxx series had it too. It has most definitely not improved, possibly because Fuji insist on reaching for the stars with this new lense.

The odds of them suddenly changing their tack are pretty low in my opinion. Note, though, that some appear to have less of a problem than what has been documented ... there is likely sample variation at play here.

The S100fs has flaws, but is still arguably the best camera in its class, so if you are looking for something like that, you could do far worse.

--
http://letkeman.net/Photos
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com

 

[Britney Elvis]

I have been following and buying fuji for a while.... I do not believe I have ever seen them actually fix anything in their follow-up cameras... with maybe the exception of a cheap breakable dial on the S9000 that they supposedly made stronger in the 9100. But in terms of feature fixes or PF/CA issues... never seen it happen.
--
Gus --- Master of the Obvious

 

[Pixelizer]

Yes, the CA issues are well-documented, and I figure it's an artifact of the Super CCD sensor.

I have a Panasonic FZ50 now, and I figure it's the end of the FZ line. I'm therefore looking for other ultrazooms with manual zoom and focus rings and similar features to the FZ. The S100fs seems ot be the only one filling the bill right now, unless the Olympus SP570UZ pans out.

But I can live with the CA, I think.

--
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

 

[Jumbuk]

According to the reviewers, there are a couple of small issues with
the camera that I figured might be addressed in a successor model ...
any word on that???

There seems to be an assumption here that it's just a matter of Fuji giving some attention to the CA issue and they can fix it. I think this is wrong - CA is the inevitable result of the format - small sensor, long zoom. The way to fix it would be to stop trying to fight the laws of physics and go back to a more sensible design - maybe 28mm-250mm equivalent.

As for a software "fix" - no thanks. One of my (few) annoyances with the Fuji bridge cameras has been a tendency to introduce in-camera noise reduction, sharpening etc. Just take the picture, warts and all, and I will sort out how I want to process it where I can see what is happening.

 

[rennie12]

I suspect the variation users report is also based on subject matter; mine, for example, seldom is of subjects where it shows; and my invariable postprocessing makes it relatively unimportant to me.

But if you specialize in birding with dark braches against a bright sky - well, maybe you could try several samples if you can reach an actual dealer. If Kim's suggestion on variantion among samples is correct that would be THE way to buy.

Personally I suspect we have reached the end of the ultrazoom camera; I doubt there will be any more.

IMHO the best of the lot was the FZ30 (I kept mine) I tried the FZ50 and returned it because of excessive NR at higher ISOs.

I had hoped the new Panasonic G1 would be an adequate replacement but nope - not as much clatter as a DSLR but still not silent, with very slow expensive lenses and no more lenses on the horizon.

I have a K10D Pentax which gives me one of the all-time great lenses (77LTD f1.8 - stabilized) with a VERY usable ISO 1600 - with the usual DSLR clatter. The slowness of the internally stabilized lenses on the G1 are ridiculous - I had an f3.5 lens in 1950, for goodness' sake...

IMHO the sensor size of the S100fs is perfect for an ultrazoom. Maybe, just maybe, Olympus will come out with some other options.

But I don't expect it. I think the whole ultrazoom thing is over. I started with the original - the Canon Pro90 IS - which started the whole thing. (granted they sold the entire lens assy to Oly - who beat them to market ( ! ) with the much-loved "UZI").

The Pro90 IS was a great camera for its day - stabilized, 10x zoom, built like a tank, full flex LCD, very good noise characteristics due to a masked larger sensor, and RAW. Due to limitations of the day, the EVF was TERRIBLE, the camera was SLOW, focus difficult to learn, with inadequate memory. But for its day it was a great, great classic.

And boy did Canon learn from it (they are VERY good at that). Canon NEVER produced (to this day) an ultrazoom which was not "crippled" in some way - some have no RAW, some no stabilization, etc etc.

So, sadly, I personally think the ultrazooms are history. And equally sadly neither Olympus nor Panasonic has any idea of how to find a workable niche for their camera line.

Or perhaps Olympus is content to piddle along with their 4/3 system as is - it looks like micro 4/3 is purely a Panasonic "thing", and Panasonic obviously hasn't a clue where the market for THAT may be.

P's statement their G1 is a logical upgrade for a point-and-shooter who wants less complexity and weight is just plain nutty - any of the Nikon, Canon, Sony, or Pentax bottom-of-the-line DLSRs are far superior cameras, and the Sony and Pentax offer inbody stabiliztion. ANY of them can be used EXACTLY like a point-and-shoot...with the great advantage of a WIDE variety of existing used and new lenses easily available.

I would say Panasonic has shot themselves in the foot - but actually its more that they shot the camera division in the head...
--
Bill Wilson

 

[Copusmaximus]

According to the reviewers, there are a couple of small issues with
the camera that I figured might be addressed in a successor model ...
any word on that???

There seems to be an assumption here that it's just a matter of Fuji
giving some attention to the CA issue and they can fix it. I think
this is wrong - CA is the inevitable result of the format - small
sensor, long zoom. The way to fix it would be to stop trying to
fight the laws of physics and go back to a more sensible design -
maybe 28mm-250mm equivalent.

I dont think this is quite right, I have a Panasonic LX1 and shooting raw gives similar CA to the S100fs but shooting .jpg images are CA free.
I find the CA from the LX1 raw files difficult and time consuming to fix.

Yes a no CA lens is the best option but better incam processing can improve the results no end.

As for a software "fix" - no thanks. One of my (few) annoyances with
the Fuji bridge cameras has been a tendency to introduce in-camera
noise reduction, sharpening etc. Just take the picture, warts and
all, and I will sort out how I want to process it where I can see
what is happening.

--
Kind Rgds

Heath

Born in England not UK

(The Amateur amateur in training)
Latest addition the amazing Finepix F30
LX1(the new doorstop)
FZ30
S7000(in sons hands now(sometimes))
Tcon17
Raynox DCR 150 & DCR 250 Mcon40
Nikon SB24+omnibounce
Tripod
CamCane

 

[Tub]

To answer the original question, yes a successor has been announced.

No name or specs, except that it will have the brand new Super CCD EXR. It should be released somewhere in mid-2009.

 

[John Carson]

I had hoped the new Panasonic G1 would be an adequate replacement but
nope - not as much clatter as a DSLR but still not silent, with very
slow expensive lenses and no more lenses on the horizon.

There is a f/1.7 lens (40 mm in 35 mm equivalents) due out next year. Others will probably follow.

I have a K10D Pentax which gives me one of the all-time great lenses
(77LTD f1.8 - stabilized) with a VERY usable ISO 1600 - with the
usual DSLR clatter. The slowness of the internally stabilized lenses
on the G1 are ridiculous - I had an f3.5 lens in 1950, for goodness'
sake...

So what? Faster lenses are bigger and heavier. There is always a tradeoff in these things. The kit lens for the Canon 450D also starts at f/3.5. Why do you expect that the G1 will be faster?

P's statement their G1 is a logical upgrade for a point-and-shooter
who wants less complexity and weight is just plain nutty - any of the
Nikon, Canon, Sony, or Pentax bottom-of-the-line DLSRs are far
superior cameras, and the Sony and Pentax offer inbody stabiliztion.

Nikon and Canon have better high ISO performance --- though Sony probably doesn't --- but they have the same advantage over Olympus and Panasonic DSLRs (strictly speaking, we don't know for sure what the G1's high ISO performance will be like, but most are assuming that it will be similar to Olympus and Panasonic DSLRs since it uses the same size Panasonic sensor). High ISO performance isn't the be all and end all, however. If it was, noone would ever buy the s100fs.

I would say Panasonic has shot themselves in the foot - but actually
its more that they shot the camera division in the head...

Let's see how the market looks in 12-18 months. I think you are going to be spectacularly wrong. The only thing that will stop the Panasonic from being a big success is if Canon or Nikon come out with their own superior EVIL camera (but, like the G1, any such camera won't have many lenses).

--
john carson

 

[John Carson]

To answer the original question, yes a successor has been announced.

No it hasn't. A high end compact has been foreshadowed, but there has been no indication (of which I am aware) that it will be a successor to the s100fs. It may be, say, a 5x zoom camera.

--
john carson

 

[Tub]

To answer the original question, yes a successor has been announced.

No it hasn't. A high end compact has been foreshadowed, but there has
been no indication (of which I am aware) that it will be a successor
to the s100fs. It may be, say, a 5x zoom camera.

I was 100% to have read somewhere that Fuji said "on a high end compact quickly followed by a high end bridge", something like that.
Of course, now that you ask, I can't find it...

 

[Fotonut]

Hiya Pixelizer,

According to the reviewers, there are a couple of small issues with
the camera that I figured might be addressed in a successor model ...
any word on that???

There will always be issues with digital camera's. If the perfect camera came out there would be no need for new ones. There would also be a number of manufacturers that would go bust overnight.

Take this view as you will, but things will never be (near)perfect as compared to 35mm film camera's, where the differences where mostly due to lenses, because anybody could buy the best film available and use it in his/her cam.

Greets.
Fotonut.
--
Snap snap - click click.

FujiLinks - http://fujilinks.fizz.me.uk/index.html (Working again)
Mirror site - http://fujilinks.110mb.com/index.html

 

[Pixelizer]

According to the reviewers, there are a couple of small issues with
the camera that I figured might be addressed in a successor model ...
any word on that???

CA is the inevitable result of the format - small
sensor, long zoom. The way to fix it would be to stop trying to
fight the laws of physics and go back to a more sensible design -
maybe 28mm-250mm equivalent.

Nah - I have a panasonic FZ50 (12x optical zoom, 10MP, and an even SMALLER sensor (1/1.8), and CA is not an issue.

As for a software "fix" - no thanks. One of my (few) annoyances with
the Fuji bridge cameras has been a tendency to introduce in-camera
noise reduction, sharpening etc. Just take the picture, warts and
all, and I will sort out how I want to process it where I can see
what is happening.

Some of the things I'm talking about fixing are the viewfinder, access to controls (RAW, etc.), and so on.

--
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

 

[Mjollnir]

I've noticed that the shop price of the S100fs has remained at a constant £500 here in the UK since it hit the shelves in the spring (it was much higher on pre-order, like most cameras) but in the last few weeks it's suddenly dropped steadily to £350.

I don't know if this is because it's not selling well, if there's a new model on the way or even if they're just bowing to the pressure of current SLR prices, but I suppose it's quite possible there will be a new model announced next February. It's a bit late now to be announcing one for the Christmas market.

I couldn't wait to get a S100fs when they were announced, but when I saw the purple fringing I was very disappointed and decided not to bother. The S6500 was about £170 at the time and the S100fs was hardly in that price bracket so I expected it to al least equal it. If the S100fs had been £200 then I'd have accepted the PF as a compromise and still got one, but at £500 there was no way I'd buy one.

Even £350 is too much now, when SLRs start at £240. I know the Fuji does more out of the box than the SLRs can, but image quality is a big factor for me and I wouldn't mind paying a little more for an SLR+kit and a cheap zoom lens, even if it meant I lost movie mode.

 

[Kim Letkeman]

I've noticed that the shop price of the S100fs has remained at a
constant £500 here in the UK since it hit the shelves in the spring
(it was much higher on pre-order, like most cameras) but in the last
few weeks it's suddenly dropped steadily to £350.

That's the list price as it has been here in Canada since the beginning ...

I don't know if this is because it's not selling well, if there's a
new model on the way or even if they're just bowing to the pressure
of current SLR prices, but I suppose it's quite possible there will
be a new model announced next February. It's a bit late now to be
announcing one for the Christmas market.

They could annouce at any time ... but were I Fuji, I'd be positioning to fight it out at Christmas strictly on price. Rumor has it that Nikon and possibly others are readying some serious rebates ... woe is Fuji if that gets out of hand during the financial crisis ...

Even £350 is too much now, when SLRs start at £240. I know the Fuji
does more out of the box than the SLRs can, but image quality is a
big factor for me and I wouldn't mind paying a little more for an
SLR+kit and a cheap zoom lens, even if it meant I lost movie mode.

Whether it really matters to you depends entirely on your shooting style. Not everyone racks out to 400mm all the time ... but that helps when you attach a Raynox ... the background FOV is very narrow.

--
http://letkeman.net/Photos
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com

 

[M87]

I've noticed that the shop price of the S100fs has remained at a
constant £500 here in the UK since it hit the shelves in the spring
(it was much higher on pre-order, like most cameras) but in the last
few weeks it's suddenly dropped steadily to £350.

Don't know where you have been looking but I bought probably just about the first one in the country at the end of March for £395 including a free 2Gb SD card on pre-order.

It has been about THAT price ever since and even mid-week, I saw it on the shelf of Clifton Cameras for £399.

You need to improve your noticing skills.

--
Andy

 

[morninglight]

Depending on how long you want to wait and see, you might want to wait well into 2009. Panasonic & Olympus both have produced "bridge" cameras, and both are doing the Micro-4/3 thing. Perhaps they move it into their bridge cameras?

The Fuji lines may have peaked (in terms of balancing IQ vs features and problems) with the s6000fd, or s9100 & s6000fd, and the pocket class F31.

--
'Gosh, you've really got some nice toys here.'
Roy Batty

 

[Jumbuk]

CA is the inevitable result of the format - small
sensor, long zoom. The way to fix it would be to stop trying to
fight the laws of physics and go back to a more sensible design -
maybe 28mm-250mm equivalent.

Nah - I have a panasonic FZ50 (12x optical zoom, 10MP, and an even
SMALLER sensor (1/1.8), and CA is not an issue.

The Imaging Resource review says "Low to moderate, minimal effect on images at edges, good results for a long zoom", so you are right, it's less of an issue "for a long zoom". However, the FZ50 range is the 35-420 mm equivalent - the S100FS goes down to 28mm equivalent. CA is generally an issue at the wide end, not telephoto.

If it was possible to produce an optically acceptable 28-400mm zoom lens, why wouldn't all SLRs come with one? The widest zoom available for many SLRs goes from 18-250, and many (most?) SLR users regard that sort of lens as not much more than a toy for snapshooters.

 

[Kim Letkeman]

The Imaging Resource review says "Low to moderate, minimal effect on
images at edges, good results for a long zoom", so you are right,
it's less of an issue "for a long zoom". However, the FZ50 range is
the 35-420 mm equivalent - the S100FS goes down to 28mm equivalent.
CA is generally an issue at the wide end, not telephoto.

From page 17 of the DPReview:

"Unfortunately, from 200mm equiv. onwards, blue/yellow CA takes off spectacularly. It proceeds to get worse all the way up to the lens's extreme at 400mm."

Many have reported terrible CA at 18mm ... and that's the better of the two ends apparently. Again ... maybe sample variation has something to do with that.

If it was possible to produce an optically acceptable 28-400mm zoom
lens, why wouldn't all SLRs come with one?

Have you counted the mega zooms out there lately? Nikon 18-200VR, Canon 18-200IS, Ramron 18-200, Tamron 18-250, Tamron 18-270VC, Sigma 18-125, Sigma 18-200, Sigma 18-200OS ... there might even be more ...

And remember to factor in the crop factor ... these lenses reach to 300 or 400, more or less matching the S100fs for reach.

The widest zoom available
for many SLRs goes from 18-250, and many (most?) SLR users regard
that sort of lens as not much more than a toy for snapshooters.

Many (most?) people who say that do so from a lack of education. Opinions from forum trolls usually swing widely on either side of the truth ... with the worst coming from "born again" people who just bought their first quality prime, or noobs who want to appear knowledgeable but manage to convey naivety instead. Opinions from professional photographers are a more reliable indicator as to how good or bad these lenses are.

Thom Hogan likes the Nikon lense ... acknowledging its role as jack-of-all-trades, yet closing his review with comments like:

"Price/Performance winner. This is a far better lens than you'll ever expect, even for US$750. Far better. Good enough that it has replaced both my 18-70mm and 24-120mm as the walk around lens of choice for when I want to go light and with one lens."

And Bjorn Rorslett rates the Nikon lense at 4-, which is just at the level where you can produce professional quality images. The lense can do it, but not at all focal lengths and apertures. You must pay real money for that privilege.

Now ... what does that say about the 28-400 lense on this bridge cam? Nothing.

--
http://letkeman.net/Photos
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com

 

[Lloydy]

From page 17 of the DPReview:

"Unfortunately, from 200mm equiv. onwards, blue/yellow CA takes off
spectacularly. It proceeds to get worse all the way up to the lens's
extreme at 400mm."

As this is a quote from the S100fs review, I would have to say that it is diametrically opposed to anything I have experienced. The review stated that CA drops off at about 100mm out. I find it is earlier than that (around 50mm) and there is no CA out to 400mm.

Now ... what does that say about the 28-400 lense on this bridge cam?
Nothing.

Those who use it don't have half the problems DPR had. Must have been the drunken 3D party :

--
Rgds, Dave.
Have fun - take lotsa pix.
http://www.redbubble.com/people/pixplanet

S100fs Examples - http://www.pixplanet.biz/Posting-stuff_5.htm

Post processing (PP) Tips - http://www.pixplanet.biz/Posting-stuff_7.htm