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anyone else disappointed by Pany's showing at the show?

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GMACNEIL

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When the LX3 was rolled out I was disappointed that it didn't marry the 28-280 lens of the TZ5 with the manual controls and raw capture of the LX2. While many are extolling the virtues of the LX3, the short lens just puts it out of contention for me. Along with others here, I had hoped that Panasonic would roll out something post-LX3 at Photokina. As I don't see any movement in that direction I may be seriously shopping the competitors. Too bad really, Panasonic has had the 28-280 niche to themselves for a while.

Am I alone in thinking that Panasonic has dropped the ball on this one?

Regards.
--
The older I get, the better I was....
 
GMACNEIL said:
When the LX3 was rolled out I was disappointed that it didn't marry the 28-280 lens of the TZ5 with the manual controls and raw capture of the LX2.
Click to expand...
You're not getting the point. Here's the point:

F3.3 - F4.9

or

F2.0 - F2.8

Think "quality, not quantity." A slow lens is the compromise you get for all of that zoom range. The LX3's fast lens is truly "what the camera is all about." That's what -- something like three to five times as much light getting to the sensor in the LX3? That =light= is what makes or breaks image quality, allows you to freeze motion without a flash, lets you get high-quality low-light shots at low ISO settings, and so on.

I'll trade a ton of zoom for that LX3 lens, any day. I would only be disappointed if the LX3 didn't have it.
--
Tom Hoots
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tomhoots/
 
Even back in film days this had been asked for but LX-3 aka POSH compacts are about their image capturing capability. and key to that is a quality optics. Sorry but technology as technology goes, Mega Zoom is never going to be able to match limited ratio zoom, let alone fix focals.

The notion of having everything in one petite package is nice to have, but reality is something else. That's why there are different kind of DC/DSLR and then some.

--
  • Franka -
 
I really dislike long zooms on compacts. Pana have got the LX3 perfect for me. Most of my shots are taken at 24mm.

The speed of the lens is superb. Think its easy to forget when comparing max apertures like 2.0 and 2.8. That .8 lower figure makes a huge difference.

f2.0 allows twice as much light onto the sensor as an f2.8 aperture.

--
andyS
http://www.andysiddens.co.uk
 
but with lenses that all it does is lower lens quality and now a great camera has less than ideal picture quality.

Long range ambitious designs like these all they do is screw up the image quality.

Panasonic is doing the right thing.

What I can conceive is that bird watchers/etc may benefit from a long range, with the thought that the lens is really good at the telephoto end, not at the initial range. But really, Panasonic I believe did the right thing.
GMACNEIL said:
When the LX3 was rolled out I was disappointed that it didn't marry
the 28-280 lens of the TZ5 with the manual controls and raw capture
of the LX2. While many are extolling the virtues of the LX3, the
short lens just puts it out of contention for me. Along with others
here, I had hoped that Panasonic would roll out something post-LX3 at
Photokina. As I don't see any movement in that direction I may be
seriously shopping the competitors. Too bad really, Panasonic has
had the 28-280 niche to themselves for a while.

Am I alone in thinking that Panasonic has dropped the ball on this one?

Regards.
--
The older I get, the better I was....
Click to expand...
--
Raist3d (Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'
 
I believe they have bounced the ball. It's just a case of whether or not they can catch it; with the camera you described, and an LX3 sensored, scaled down G1 body on the back of a fixed, manual, superzoom Leica lens.

I wrote the paragraph above minutes ago; just froze dreaming of these cameras. That's the thing isn't it. If you see the technology there before you, and you put a combination of parts together in your mind to make your dream camera, you're not going to buy anything else without feeling some sense of compromise.

These cameras are there staring at you Panasonic. Please build them.

One day my FZ50 will die, and there's nothing to replace it.
 
lens sharpness, lens chromatic aberrations quality, lens contrast with light.

"huge range" lenses are as good and make as much sense to image quality as the megapixels and the megapixel race do.

--
Raist3d (Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'
 
The LX3 doesn't set any world records, it doesn't do any one particular thing better than any other camera, it does what people expect from a compact extremely well and considering it's size is the best all rounder in it's focal length range. That's why I bought one. There are as many reasons for buying a camera as there are camera types in the market.
 
Tom

You are spot on, so much how i feel - its scary .. Have a similr argument down here with a friend of mine, had it for some time now ..

What matters is the lens, it's speed and how sharp it is wide open, period.

That is why i bought the L1 recently for a fraction of the cost for d300 - d700 with a lens to match the quality of the 14-50 f2.8, which btw sharp as a razor wide open - how did the manage that - go and figure

I'm about to erase the security number of my CC to stop me from buying the LX3 .. But if i decide to sell my beloved R1, then i'll get one im sure, and then .. does one need more : LC1 - L1 - LX3 = pick any and open this 3rd eye within for some real fotografia
Tom Hoots said:
GMACNEIL said:
When the LX3 was rolled out I was disappointed that it didn't marry the 28-280 lens of the TZ5 with the manual controls and raw capture of the LX2.
Click to expand...
You're not getting the point. Here's the point:

F3.3 - F4.9

or

F2.0 - F2.8

Think "quality, not quantity." A slow lens is the compromise you get
for all of that zoom range. The LX3's fast lens is truly "what the
camera is all about." That's what -- something like three to five
times as much light getting to the sensor in the LX3? That =light=
is what makes or breaks image quality, allows you to freeze motion
without a flash, lets you get high-quality low-light shots at low ISO
settings, and so on.

I'll trade a ton of zoom for that LX3 lens, any day. I would only be
disappointed if the LX3 didn't have it.
--
Tom Hoots
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tomhoots/
Click to expand...
--
Ilko Alexandrov,
Less is More : http://nightlight.zenfolio.com
 
I too am a bit disappointed the tech ain't there to do a 24-288/12x F/2-3.3 with full manual control, in a pocket-able body but also I've never been blown away by any of these shows neither, so never anticipate to be neither...
John Miles said:
I believe they have bounced the ball. It's just a case of whether or
not they can catch it; with the camera you described, and an LX3
sensored, scaled down G1 body on the back of a fixed, manual,
superzoom Leica lens.

I wrote the paragraph above minutes ago; just froze dreaming of these
cameras. That's the thing isn't it. If you see the technology there
before you, and you put a combination of parts together in your mind
to make your dream camera, you're not going to buy anything else
without feeling some sense of compromise.

These cameras are there staring at you Panasonic. Please build them.

One day my FZ50 will die, and there's nothing to replace it.
Click to expand...
The LX3 is the perfect compliment for an FZ or TZ albeit a two-fisted or two-pocket approach... Still beats a body or two & 3 or 4 lenses to manage or even managing a WA adapter on an FZ......
--
John Miles said:
John Miles said:
The Amateur Formerly Known as 'UZ'pShoot'ERS' 'Happy Shootin' Comments, Critique, Ridicule, Limericks, Jokes, Hi-jackings, EnthUZIastically, Encouraged... I Insist!



* [email protected] * http://www.pbase.com/rrawzz *
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I feel pany has left me drifting at sea. That is partly (if not all) my fault for expecting an FZ60. But, now I will have to look at "all shores" for a way out of my drift.

I will start (have already started this week) prowling the Canon and Fuji forums trying to figure out if the new Canon Superzooms or the Fuji S100 (or more likely its replacement this winter, if any) will be my next step "up" or "sideways" from the FZ8. The Canon will not have RAW, but to have a 20x zoom and nice movie capabilities would be nice. But the IQ would need to be at least as good as the FZ8 and even the small sensors I would hope technology would have improved the IQ in the new Canon Ultrazooms.

I would keep the 12 ounce FZ8 regardless, so if I "jumped ship" to Canon or Fuji I would still come back to this board!!!

Peter F.
 
FZ18 or 28?? They're more in line with the smaller size of an 8...

Were you expecting a 20x lens on an FZ60 that would've been reduced in overall size or something??

And how can one consider the outwardly huge, by comparison to all others, including the FZ50, s100sf in any FZ8 replacement thoughts?
PeterNMIF said:
I feel pany has left me drifting at sea. That is partly (if not all)
my fault for expecting an FZ60. But, now I will have to look at "all
shores" for a way out of my drift.

I will start (have already started this week) prowling the Canon and
Fuji forums trying to figure out if the new Canon Superzooms or the
Fuji S100 (or more likely its replacement this winter, if any) will
be my next step "up" or "sideways" from the FZ8. The Canon will not
have RAW, but to have a 20x zoom and nice movie capabilities would be
nice. But the IQ would need to be at least as good as the FZ8 and
even the small sensors I would hope technology would have improved
the IQ in the new Canon Ultrazooms.

I would keep the 12 ounce FZ8 regardless, so if I "jumped ship" to
Canon or Fuji I would still come back to this board!!!

Peter F.
Click to expand...
--
PeterNMIF said:
PeterNMIF said:
The Amateur Formerly Known as 'UZ'pShoot'ERS' 'Happy Shootin' Comments, Critique, Ridicule, Limericks, Jokes, Hi-jackings, EnthUZIastically, Encouraged... I Insist!



* [email protected] * http://www.pbase.com/rrawzz *
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Hi,

That's my point exactly grin . I feel left adrift not knowing in what direction to turn in the world of fixed lens ultrazooms. I either want a) better IQ than the FZ8 or 2) same quality as FZ8 with greater zoom potential either shorter and/or longer... So:

1) Fuji S100 would be slightly bigger than an FZ60 would have been but the Fuji has a 28mm wide (plus 400mm long to match my FZ8), and would have a bigger sensor (= better IQ?) than the FZ8/18/28

2) Canon Ultrazooms would have same (nearly) sensor at FZ8/28/18, but longer and wider zoom which would at least in part make up for the similar IQ (I assume similar IQ because of similar sensor size). Canon EVF about same size as FZ8/18.

3) FZ28 not an option. I want bigger EVF (personal preference plus glasses make bigger viewfinder valuable IMO), or at least not smaller than the FZ8 which is okay but marginally so.

4) Thanks for thought of FZ18. Especially since it can be bought cheap now.

4) G1 is nice but I don't usually buy anything that is "new" in concept, so without remorse can easily wait until the next time around.

Peter F.
 
I owned the Panasonic LC-1 and the LX-3 reminds me of this camera.

Today, my fovorite lens is the Sigma 18-125 f3.5-5.6 for 4/3 format. A 28-90 Leica f2 is nice, but it doesn't have a useful range.

I was hoping for the Leica 14-150. But I like the upcoming 14-140 HD.

I'm excited about the idea of combining still and video capturing.

I'm excited about a large sensored digital imaging device that is managable in size--I like the size of the G1.

My only disapointed in the G1 is its inability to capture video. As a Canon Powershot S5 owner, Panasonic has failled to get my business--but may get me when they release the G system with HD video.
 
...that there was no FZ60 announced.

But, you have to admit, the folks at Panasonic have really been busy innovating.

The LX3 was a bold design, from a series that many folks predicted would end.

The G1 has enormous potential. If you don't like the first version, odds are you like the G2, G3 or G5 better.

I think this Micro 4/3 format will end up creating lots of nice compact cameras.
Personally, I'm still hoping for a mini Leica M8 rangefinder!
--
Marty
http://flickr.com/photos/7735239@N02/sets/72157606210120132/detail/

Panasonic FZ7, FZ20, FZ30, LX2
Olympus C-4000, C-7000
Olympus E-510, Zuiko 12-42mm, 40-150mm

 
PeterNMIF said:
3) FZ28 not an option. I want bigger EVF (personal preference plus
glasses make bigger viewfinder valuable IMO), or at least not smaller
than the FZ8 which is okay but marginally so.
Peter F.
Click to expand...
While I don't need my glasses with an EVF, yet... You're preachin' to the choir about their being a deal-maker/breaker & I too couldn't/wouldn't except anything smaller than the 5 I have now, which are all pretty much larger than .22".

Regardless if higher rez or not, that, to me, would be insignificant if the total size is halved from the FZ50 EVF.... That is where the Canons just might steal those that would've otherwise gone with the 28, since they're both .4" or larger...

From the little I've read of the s100sf, from former FZ50 shooters.. That EVF isn't anything to write home about neither & isn't even up to what the FZ50's EVF is, in neither rez or size, I believe... Too bad too, since it's obviously got the size/room to accommodate a huge EVF... In fact, IMO, all that bulk is made a little more difficult to accept without it housing a larger EVF too....

The EVF is the main improvement I was/am lookin' to be the next major improvement expected in the fabled FZ60 (& really all future non-DSLR's), assuming it would get the V4 engine the 28 & LX3 have, or better... (Fabled, meaning, "IF" (Big "IF") it were to ever happen.)
--
PeterNMIF said:
PeterNMIF said:
The Amateur Formerly Known as 'UZ'pShoot'ERS' 'Happy Shootin' Comments, Critique, Ridicule, Limericks, Jokes, Hi-jackings, EnthUZIastically, Encouraged... I Insist!



* [email protected] * http://www.pbase.com/rrawzz *
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I am not disappointed with the LX3. In fact I am going to buy one in a few months once ACR gets updated. The lens seems just perfect to me. Just what I was looking for.

Dave
 
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