MKII -- what more could they have done?

[rrcphoto]

Incremental improvements and video thrown in... If you agree that,
after a three-year wait, the MKII is a little underwhelming, what
could they have done to make it truly exciting without being just a
compact 1? (Not that a compact 1 wouldn't be fantastic, but
apparently Canon don't agree.)
--

I think it's a fantastic upgrade from the 5D original. I would have liked a larger point spread, don't really care about the # of points, but when you sum everything up - it's coming in $600 less than the 5D did way back when.

for the shooting that the 5D did - the 5DII will do it better.

the best news for me, is the ZE lenses coming out .. we have most likely the best ultra light FF gear - sweet ZE lenses, f/4 lightweight L zooms and a light 5DII.

 

[Cal Dawson]

At least 5 FPS. Pro AF such as the D700 and a few seals around the buttons wouldn't hurt in the least...
--
Cal

Put a Canon to your head, You deserve it....

http://funshots.smugmug.com/

 

[Badbatz]

Judging from your writing, you have been recently banned under a different screen name. Hmm...troling again after rejoining the forum two dyas ago..?

 

[Steven Noyes]

You do realize it is sealed around those buttons? And 5 fps would have cut the IQ. Take your pick.

Steven

At least 5 FPS. Pro AF such as the D700 and a few seals around the
buttons wouldn't hurt in the least...
--
Cal

Put a Canon to your head, You deserve it....

http://funshots.smugmug.com/

--
---
Spring 2008:
http://stats.pbase.com/snoyes/images_spring_2008

2007 Paria Plateau
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/images_spring_2007

 

[polansky]

However, it is certainly possible that Canon will release an entry
level full frame in the future. Let's hope that it will have a pop
up flash, pentaprism viewfinder, 6+ fps, 12-16mp, and a price of less
than $2,000.

You can wish for it, but it won't come anytime soon....
There is more room for a 3D series then for a 7D at this point in time.

They can not put in better AF now in a lower model number (eg. 7D) then they have put in the 5D MKII. However there is room in a premium 5D model.

 

[polansky]

But you probably didn't knew that.....

 

[EricDP]

Pro AF such as the D700

The D700 may have more AF points, but what makes you think it performs any better? I haven't used one a lot, but I held a friend's D700 a couple weeks ago and found the AF to be slower than I expected. I didn't get a chance to shoot with it and see how accurate it was. It's definitely not a D3 though. I guess all I'm saying is don't judge just based on the number of AF points. There's a lot more to an AF system.

 

[stevetog]

it seems you might like to, personally i'll stick with Canon who have lead the FF market for many many years....and what happens if Sony pulls the plug on Nikon, deep dodo's all round.

 

[RDKirk]

The only real problem with the 5D's AF is the points are clustered to close to the center and the 50D's AF would not have fixed that.

Nope. This has been hashed on several threads. The absolute size of the pattern is about the same on all cameras, all manufacturers. Nobody puts an AF sensor farther than about 15mm from the center.

It looks larger on APS-C cameras because the absolute size of those frames is less.

--
RDKirk
'TANSTAAFL: The only unbreakable rule in photography.'

 

[Fearless_Photog]

You do realize it is sealed around those buttons? And 5 fps would
have cut the IQ. Take your pick.

Why would 5fps have cut the IQ? It's just a matter of sensor read-out speed and processing power. Since the sensor is apparently a modified version of the 1Ds Mark III sensor, it should already have the read-out speed for 5fps. It's just a matter of having the processing hardware to deal with it. Please explain why you think this would have a negative effect on IQ because I really don't see the connection.

 

[Steven Noyes]

Since the DiG!C 4 was a set chip, a faster 5D Mk II could have been done by adding 2 chips. This would have taken us to almost 8 fps but increased the cost. So given the same cost, we are stuck with a single DiG!C 4. To ge to 5 fps, we would have to go down to 16-17MP.

Personally, I would prefer the extra MP over a bit more speed. I am sure others would take the speed. Many would have been happy with a 15MP FF 6.5 fps camera.

What I would love to see is a slot in the bottom of the camera allowing 40mm X 30mm X 5mm packs with the sensor you want.

Want 24MP B&W with no AA filter?
Want 12MP Color with amazing low-light performance?
Want 36MP Color but slow?

They could build in expansion by adding multiple channels. Higher end cameras could have more communications channels.

They really need to address this obsolete a perfectly good body to upgrade the sensor nonsense.

Steven

--
---
Spring 2008:
http://stats.pbase.com/snoyes/images_spring_2008

2007 Paria Plateau
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/images_spring_2007

 

[natureman]

Except for the fact that the 50D focusing system comes in a camera
that costs about half as much as a 5DMKII.

But that focusing system was designed for an APS-c sensor, they can't
just drop it into the 5D so it would have to be redesigned, which
would up the cost of the 5D.

I would think they could have at least made all the focus points cross type without any extra cost. It isn't like they would have to start completely from scratch to have included a better focusing system.

Then there's also the fact
that other manufacturers offer many things in way less expensive
cameras, like in-body stabilization, better sensor cleaning systems,
better live view functions, better weather sealing, quieter
operation, etc. Apparently those things don't cost very much, or at
least shouldn't cost very much.

How many of them have 21mp full frame sensors? I imagine those chips
don't come cheap and are the reason Canon can't put every single
feature you want into an FF body at that price, even if those
features are present on cheaper models. As far as I can tell the
5DmkII is the cheapest 21mp FF camera you can buy...

If anything, the more megapixels and the higher price of the camera, the more it should have at least what the entry level cameras from other manufacturers have. For example, a $500.00 Sony A200 comes with in-body stabilization. No Canon or Nikon DSLRs come with in-body stabilization, at any price.

There are also other features in entry level DSLRs and even in point and shoot cameras that are obviously cheap for the manufacturer to include (otherwise they wouldn't include them) that are not available or are more limited in much higher priced DSLRs from Canon or Nikon. That seems very strange to me.

Just because a camera has a FF sensor, or a lot of megapixels, doesn't mean it should be hobbled in other ways.

 

[Borek Lupomesky]

I for one am fairly excited about 5D MkII. If I could choose what to add, this would be it:

• ability to dial in any length of exposure (or alternatively T-mode exposure, that is one shutter release opens shutter, the next one closes it)
• built-in intervalometer for easy timelapses

Borek

--
http://www.lupomesky.cz/foto/index-en.html

 

[RobertMartinu]

Except for the fact that the 50D focusing system comes in a camera
that costs about half as much as a 5DMKII.

But that focusing system was designed for an APS-c sensor, they can't
just drop it into the 5D so it would have to be redesigned, which
would up the cost of the 5D.

Only if you want the same spread of focus points.

But the 5D-diamond is much tighter then the xxD one - just the same absolute size, embedded in an extended field of view.

Then there's also the fact
that other manufacturers offer many things in way less expensive
cameras,

How many of them have 21mp full frame sensors? I imagine those chips
don't come cheap and are the reason Canon can't put every single
feature you want into an FF body at that price, even if those
features are present on cheaper models. As far as I can tell the
5DmkII is the cheapest 21mp FF camera you can buy...

Why not increase the price to, say, the level of the 5D at its release?
Just think of what the difference got you in a film body...

Dunno, but to me "cheap" as a feature sounds rather like "not much to write home about".

 

[Skip M]

The only real problem with the 5D's AF is the points are clustered to close to the center and the 50D's AF would not have fixed that.

Nope. This has been hashed on several threads. The absolute size of
the pattern is about the same on all cameras, all manufacturers.
Nobody puts an AF sensor farther than about 15mm from the center.

It looks larger on APS-C cameras because the absolute size of those
frames is less.

--
RDKirk
'TANSTAAFL: The only unbreakable rule in photography.'

It also looks like the line on my 1n and A2 come closer to the edge, and they're "full frame." In practical usage, it seems like I get better coverage with my 1n than I do with my 5D.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

 

[JEverett]

For what you're going to get in terms of potential for world-class IQ and ability to enlarge, I agree that the price is surprisingly good. Lack of weatherproofing was a big deal for me on the original 5D, so that makes a big difference as well. The expanded ISO is also important, so I'll be waiting to see the real-world images that people are taking. Pre-release samples can give some idea, but I want to see how actual production models perform in the hands of people down at street level, as far as noise at higher ISO's go, and how people's daily-use lenses are able to resolve all those megapixels.

I was disappointed with some of the features that didn't make it into the new 5D, but I've gotten past it. Now I want to see how it performs with real users and not just samples taken of store dispalys and Canon's private sample collection. For the price, it could be a world-beater.

Who knows. I may even warm up to the video feature...
--
Joel

Never stop upgrading.

 

[Skip M]

Linked the spot meter to the focus point (they already do this with evaluative, and did it with the old 1n) and improved the AF. I know, everybody says it's ok now, but, for me, it could be improved. Cross type sensors at all points, larger spread and possibly marginally more points all would help.

By the way, I don't find the new 5D mkII "underwhelming." I like all its features, and think it is a good evolution of the old one.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

 

[Chez Wimpy]

But that focusing system was designed for an APS-c sensor, they can't
just drop it into the 5D so it would have to be redesigned, which
would up the cost of the 5D.

Yeah... they had to design the original 5D focus sensor from the ground up afterall.

How many of them have 21mp full frame sensors? I imagine those chips
don't come cheap and are the reason Canon can't put every single
feature you want into an FF body at that price, even if those
features are present on cheaper models.

Exactly. Just think back to the legions of complainers who passed over the first 5D because it had too few megapixels!

--
-CW

 

[Mike Collins]

If you think that Nikon's pro AF engine is slower than Canon's 9 point system, you are delusional. I shot with Nikon up to the D2H, and found that AF engine to better anything I've shot with from Canon since (1 x 20D, 1 x 5D, 2 x 1DMk2, 2 x 1DMk2N, 1 x 1DMk3), and their new system is better than the D2H. The 1DMkIII comes close on single point, but not even in the same galaxy with regard to their dynamic tracking (which I used a lot on the D2H for sports). The system that is in the prosumer Canon's, and especially the old 5D (and now 5D Mk2) system is laughable to think competes with Nikon's top AF engine. But the 5D Mk2 is aimed at portrait and wedding photographers, so it isn't a killer. I think they blew it by not upgrading the AF engine, and my suspicion is that they had something planned that didn't pan out... probably because of the after effects of the Mark III AF problems. Why else would they upgrade every other part of the camera, but then leave a 3 year old AF system in it? It makes no logical sense from a technical or marketing perspective.

--
Regards, Mike - Lot's of Canon Stuff
Victory Photo - http://victoryphoto.com
Photographer in the Northeast? http://NorthEastFoto.com

 

[Ben Bruno]

Eye Control Focus. I still own an Elan 7e for the occasional black and white roll and the ECF makes it so much more enjoyable to shoot.