Which flash-sync adapter to buy for a photgraphy student?

[motion]

As a fresh photography school student I'm in the "gear buying" phase.
The gear I've acquired during the past 3 years or so is:

• Canon EOS 350D camera
• Sigma 17-70mm, f2.8-4.5 lens w/UV lens protection filter
• Canon 70-200, f4L lens w/UV lens protection filter
• Canon wired remote
• Canon 430EX flash
• a couple of tripods, ball socket, quick release
• a few filters, camera bag, memory cards etc.

At school we've just been introduced to professional lighting gear which includes flashes that need to be triggered from the camera, and I've been told that I need to buy a hot shoe sync-adapter. Having done some research I've found that there are a dozen different combinations of these and ways of syncing multiple flashes which confuses me.

When I buy new gear I like to invest in stuff that lasts, and that can have multiple functions at once if possible. I see no reason to pay $$$ for "fancy brands" when you can get something just as good (or even better!) for a fraction of the price through eBay.
But I do want to buy quality.

So, if I'm not completely mistaken, the basic necessity is an adapter that goes into the camera hot-shoe with a cable that connects to the professional flash, right?

I've also read that if you mistakingly plug such a cable to an old external flash (I have no idea if "old" is 5 years or 25 years though) high voltage might come through the connector and fry my camera. Something I absolutely don't want, so I find those hot shoe adapter with built-in protection circuitry interesting. But do they actually protect the camera, or is it just an excuse for raising the cost?

I've also seen a really cheap "wireless flash slave trigger" at eBay ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320301548000 ) which plugs into the hot shoe. Is this used in the same way as the regular flash-sync adapter, but instead of a cable the external flash is triggered optically?

I guess my question boils down to what should I invest in when it comes to camera flash?

 

[phila_guy]

As a fresh photography school student I'm in the "gear buying" phase.
The gear I've acquired during the past 3 years or so is:

• Canon EOS 350D camera
• Sigma 17-70mm, f2.8-4.5 lens w/UV lens protection filter
• Canon 70-200, f4L lens w/UV lens protection filter
• Canon wired remote
• Canon 430EX flash
• a couple of tripods, ball socket, quick release
• a few filters, camera bag, memory cards etc.

At school we've just been introduced to professional lighting gear
which includes flashes that need to be triggered from the camera, and
I've been told that I need to buy a hot shoe sync-adapter. Having
done some research I've found that there are a dozen different
combinations of these and ways of syncing multiple flashes which
confuses me.
When I buy new gear I like to invest in stuff that lasts, and that
can have multiple functions at once if possible. I see no reason to
pay $$$ for "fancy brands" when you can get something just as good
(or even better!) for a fraction of the price through eBay.
But I do want to buy quality.

So, if I'm not completely mistaken, the basic necessity is an adapter
that goes into the camera hot-shoe with a cable that connects to the
professional flash, right?
I've also read that if you mistakingly plug such a cable to an old
external flash (I have no idea if "old" is 5 years or 25 years
though) high voltage might come through the connector and fry my
camera. Something I absolutely don't want, so I find those hot shoe
adapter with built-in protection circuitry interesting. But do they
actually protect the camera, or is it just an excuse for raising the
cost?

yes, spend the extra money on the one with the circuit protection (e.g. Wein Safe-Synch) much cheaper than fixing a fried camera.

if the strobes for your class have optical triggers, you can use an IR transmitter on your camera's hot shoe (check with your instructor if it does). There's also radio transmitter/trigger. These last two will avoid the high voltage problem since you're not cable connected to the strobes.

I've also seen a really cheap "wireless flash slave trigger" at eBay
( http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320301548000 )
which plugs into the hot shoe. Is this used in the same way as the
regular flash-sync adapter, but instead of a cable the external flash
is triggered optically?

that ebay item is only for hot shoe flashes not for the strobes you'll be using for your class.

I guess my question boils down to what should I invest in when it
comes to camera flash?

--

We have art that we do not die of the truth.
--Friedrich Nietzsche

 

[BAK]

You are on the right track, sort of, for really basic.

Buy a little box that fits into the hotshoe, with a socket in it, into which you plug a cord from the flash gun.

The Nikon AS-15 works fine, as does the Wein Safe Sync.

Once the first studio flash is plugged into the camera, chances are very good that when it goes off, it will set off a second similar studio flash, via a burst of light from unit one and a sensor on the second unit,

This works fine when you are the only photographer.

If someone else is shooting flash pix, their flash will set off you flash unit(s), Whether the first studio flash is set off accidentally depends on its wiring. Sometimes plugging in the cord that goes to your camera turns off the built-in sensor most studio flash units have.

MORE FANCY; Depending on the brand of studio style flash, you can buy a wireless trigger. Some are based on light, some on infrared, and some on radio.

You put a transmitter on the hot shoe and a receiver on the studio style flash, and a signal flies through the air.

RAdio versions have various channels, so several photographers can be using flash at the same time without setting off each others units.

Paulk C. Buff (Alien Bees, Zeus, White Lightning) has an fairly inexpensive radio system. Pocket Wizards are quite expensive, and very good.

BAK

 

[motion]

Having looked at Wein's website ( http://www.weinproducts.com/safesyncs.htm ) and read several other posts about the "Safe sync" I'm a little confused as there seems to be so many models and different uses.

I also read an interesting thread at another forum ( http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=34307&forum_id=54 ) with a link to a site explaining the problem with high voltage flashes and modern cameras ( http://www.botzilla.com/photo/G1strobe.html ).

There are some differing views on the Safe sync in that thread where someone claims that it indeed limits its purpose, while others seem to claim it's a "better safe than sorry" solution.

I'll check with my instructor about the flashes they have in studio, but for now I'm not interested in spending $$$ for wireless solutions (which I believe aren't universally compatible either, which is what I would need if investing at this stage -I don't have a studio flash of my own, and don't know what I'll be using in the future), so a wired solution will most likely be what works with "everything", right?

Are there two types of hot-shoe sync adapters?

One that simply has a wire which triggers an external flash, and another type that does the same, but also allows a camera flash (such as my Canon 430EX) to be mounted on top of that hot shoe adapter? In other words, allowing not only external sync, but using my regular flash in addition to the external studio flash?

After reading the abovementioned site about "old" flashes frying new gear ( http://www.botzilla.com/photo/G1strobe.html ) it seems to me that they're talking about camera flashes (i.e. flash units which go on top of the camera, such as my Canon 430EX), but not external studio flashes.

Does the Wein Safe sync only protect against high voltage flashes that plug into the camera's hot shoe, or does it do that as well as any external studio flash?
I'm obviously new to this, hence all the silly questions ;-)

 

[nickoly]

is find out if you really need a safe-sync. Not all cameras do and it is less likely to be a problem with a DSLR, which I understand you have. Reading the manual might help here.

Safe-sync has become a generic term. They are made by Wein, Morris, and this crowd http://g9chon.com/HS.html , or you can make your own for about $4 of parts.

Having looked at Wein's website
( http://www.weinproducts.com/safesyncs.htm ) and read several other
posts about the "Safe sync" I'm a little confused as there seems to
be so many models and different uses.

I also read an interesting thread at another forum

( http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=34307&forum_id=54 ) with a link to a site explaining the problem with high voltage flashes and modern cameras ( http://www.botzilla.com/photo/G1strobe.html ).
There are some differing views on the Safe sync in that thread where
someone claims that it indeed limits its purpose, while others seem
to claim it's a "better safe than sorry" solution.

The only limitation of purpose in these devices is that they do not enable TTL operation, which I guess is hardly an issue in the multi-flash studio setup you propose.

I'll check with my instructor about the flashes they have in studio,
but for now I'm not interested in spending $$$ for wireless solutions
(which I believe aren't universally compatible either, which is what
I would need if investing at this stage -I don't have a studio flash
of my own, and don't know what I'll be using in the future), so a
wired solution will most likely be what works with "everything",
right?

It will work but it is not necessarily a good idea, and a quiet check of the prices for long cables might be revealing. While I have a couple of cables, I can't imagine anybody setting up a studio with them these days. They are just an accident waiting to happen. If you must use a cable you might consider one for just the first light and then use dumb optical slaves for the rest. At$3.99 they will be cheaper than cables, probably more reliable, and a hell of a lot safer. This method enables you to use dumb optical slaves, the cheapest, safest, and most versatile link in the business, but does not oblige you to use the on-board flash to fire them.

One other reason for using a wireless link, of any sort, is that it gets past any trigger voltage problem you might have.

Are there two types of hot-shoe sync adapters?
One that simply has a wire which triggers an external flash, and
another type that does the same, but also allows a camera flash (such
as my Canon 430EX) to be mounted on top of that hot shoe adapter? In
other words, allowing not only external sync, but using my regular
flash in addition to the external studio flash?

These are really the same device. It's just that there are some suckers out there who buy versions without the hotshoe of top. The two types of sync adapters are: those that have trigger voltage regulation, and those that don't.

After reading the abovementioned site about "old" flashes frying new
gear ( http://www.botzilla.com/photo/G1strobe.html ) it seems to me
that they're talking about camera flashes (i.e. flash units which go
on top of the camera, such as my Canon 430EX), but not external
studio flashes.

The trigger voltage for studio flashes is measured the same way. The information is probably in the manual. It was not commonly in the manual for portables, hence the bozilla site.

Does the Wein Safe sync only protect against high voltage flashes
that plug into the camera's hot shoe, or does it do that as well as
any external studio flash?

Both. It either has a pc terminal on the side, or it can take a hotshoe pc adapter.

 

[bjall]

I thought it was more likely that a DSLR would have a problem with a flash with too high a trigger voltage.

 

[gonzogolf]

You have to purchase one of the safe-sync to connect your camera to a corded studio flash system. The xt doesn't have an external sync socket to plug into otherwise. I bought the wein from B&H. and it worked great with my xti. I even use it now after I upgraded to my 40d which includes a sync socket. Better safe than sorry in that regard. There is a lot of contradictory information out there regarding trigger voltage, luckily you can ignore all of it because you are forced to use one of the safe-sync devices anyway.

The only question you have is whether to get one that includes a hot shoe on top of the safe synch. Not sure why you would want an on camera flash and a sync outlet for studio lights but maybe there is a reason.. Get the device and have a blast!!

 

[motion]

I'll most definitely get an adapter with a hotshoe on top as well as having the sync connector.

As pointed out earlier in the thread by nickoly, the hotshoe on top allows for a regular flash to be attached to the camera (as far as I understand, the majority of high voltage problems comes with older (e.g. Sunpak) flashes that attach to the camera, so this is a must for voltage protection in case my own Canon 430EX flash dies and I have to borrow something non-standard.

Besides, it must be handy to allow for both an external flash and a camera flash at the same time.

I'm actually considering an EOS 40D or 50D when I outgrow my EOS 350D, so a safe-sync appears to be a good investment. Yes, the information out there seems to be very confusing at the least. I'm also worried about what happens to the camera if a flash that outputs more than 400V (the limit of the Wein safe-sync as far as I can understand from its description). Another thing is that ordering a Wein safe-sync from outside of the USA is extremely expensive. Cheapest shipping to Norway for this item from B&H photo is 46 bucks!! In reality I'm sure it wouldn't cost more than 2-3 dollars to pop the tiny thing it in a jiffy bag and send it via USPS. I'm definitely not paying close to $ 100 for this!
Amazon.com takes an outrageous $ 90 for shipping alone!

I'm considering the "G9Chon" ( http://g9chon.com/HS.html ) as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, because it only costs $ 30, and they "only" charge $ 25 for shipping (which is still outrageous, but a lot better than the above companies) so the final cost will be $ 55. But since everybody refers to the Wein Safe sync it seems that's the way to go if you want quality and reliability I guess.

I could of course make one myself, but I don't know where I'd be able to get the actual hotshoe that goes in the camera (and the additional hotshoe on top which allows for an additional flash).

 

[nickoly]

Is to check that you really need to do this.

I'm actually considering an EOS 40D or 50D when I outgrow my EOS
350D, so a safe-sync appears to be a good investment

Really? You surprise me. I think you will find that ALL these cameras have pc terminals and NONE require safe sync and, if that is the case, you are probably wasting your money. So, I say again, read the manual. You might also check the EOS-specific forum on photo.net. Generally, if a camera has a pc terminal, it will be kosher at high trigger voltage. You might say that a pc terminal is an indication of professional intent!

But since
everybody refers to the Wein Safe sync it seems that's the way to go
if you want quality and reliability I guess.

People only refer to the Wein because that is all they know about. There is nothing quality or reliable about them. They are just crude and overpriced junk. Maybe they have improved but, last time I saw one, the shoe contacts was just a piece of circuit board which is not the sort of thing you would expect to last- or to pay that sort of money for..

 

[Quantum Help]

--Exactly what model is the external flash that you want to trigger?

 

[slowhands214238]

Background:

Over time, I have aquired a number of battery/hotshoe flashes as well as studio strobes. I've had many of the same concerns and challanges as I've grown and evolved. I also shoot Canon 350D/xt

1) I bought the Wein Safe Sync when I picked up a flash with high trigger voltage

1a) Wein safe sync includes a "PC" socket which can be used to connect a wire between camera and flash (battery or strobe)
2) Additional battery flashes were aquired.
2a) eBay optical slaves / shoe attached triggers were purchased
2b) Wein peanut optical triggers were purchased
Now all battery flashes can be triggered optically !

A wire between camera/safe sync and the shoe of the eBay sets can also be used to trigger a flash.
3) Strobes were purchased.
Used sync cord between safe sync and strobe (even though voltage is safe)
Used strobe's optical slave and camera's built-in flash for triggering
4) Picked up a pair of radio triggers AC powered strobe receivers
WOW...nice to be wireless.
5) Picked up more strobes
5a) picked up adapters to connect wireless receivers to new strobes
6) Picked up off shoe cord for battery flashes... to go on flash bracket.
7) drooled over PocketWizards...but too $$$
8) Picked up eBay cactus IIs wireless transmitter/receiver for hot shoe flashes.

cactus IIs units are 4 channel, supposedly good for LOW canon flash trigger voltages. They work... range is short. orientation of trigger to receiver is critical. rotate sideways or backwards... may not fire. GRRRRRRRR I'm upset.
research internet forums... Ahhh 433Mhz... low power... short antenna.

Soldered 12.37" wire ot the end fo the antenna trace inside the transmitters, coil the wire sio it fits inside the transmitter...close it up.
WOW... cheap units are now reliable, with range close to 200'.
Hot Shoe flashes can be positioned anywhere, fired from anywhere

"PC" socket on receiver can be used to trigger additional flashed or strobes with the correct cables.
Picked up spare batteries to have in my bag...just in case.

Footnote: I may pick up anoter pair... I do shoot with an associate and sometimes in a classroom or studio situation.

Bottom like... know what you need...and research your needs.

 

[motion]

I've been giving the issue some thought....

I probably don't need a hotshoe sync connector with a hotshoe on the top (for a camera flash) because I already have my own Canon 430EX and see no reason why I would ever need to use an older "lethal voltage" flash.

On the other hand, running into different kinds of studio flashes is another matter.

At school they use Visatec Logos 1600 ( http://www.bron.ch/vt_pd_ps_en/detail.php?nr=1251 ). I've just downloaded the specs/user-manual and had a brief read, but couldn't find anything about sync voltages. I hope/guess they're OK though, given the school chose them to be used with the students' DSLRs. On the other hand, running into other studio flashes when doing projects in other studios outside of the school might be an entirely different matter (or not).

Basically I just want to be more safe than sorry. I've read different postings about those "safe sync" PC hotshoe sync devices and some people claim that they may protect the camera's internal circuitry by limiting the sync voltage from an external flash, but the limiting voltage might still be higher than your particular camera can withstand. There's no mention of the flash-shoe voltage limit in my Canon EOS-350D manual, but it seems (from lots of different forum postings here and there) that 6V is the limit.

Wireless triggering has been suggested here, which sounds like a good idea although I have a few concerns:
1) Not all studio flashes might have support for radio controlled triggering

2) Supposing the flash does support radio triggering, are the frequencies standardized, or might one brand operate on a certain frequency band while another brand of studio flash operate on an entirely different band?

3) interference from other radio transmitters (I've actually seen this happen in studio, where someone else in another studio is apparently using the same radio channel. I know the channels can be changed, but it's still irritating).

3) Like with excessive cellphone use I'm concerned about radiation exposure. If I can avoid it I will.

I assume all studio flashes have a wired trigger input, so with a hotshoe trigger with a built in protection circuit (which actually works for my particular camera) I would think that I'd be set to work with any studio flash, right?

I came across Paramount cords' voltage protection page ( http://www.paramountcords.com/vp.asp ). Their cables cost $55 extra with built in voltage protection, which makes the total just under $100 including shipping. A bit steep for a cable, connector and some simple components methinks.

Someone mentioned these circuits could be made for around $4, so I searched around a bit and found this schematic:



That looks interesting. To avoid building the thing that plugs into the camera's hotshoe I assume I could buy a bog standard PC-sync hotshoe adapter (without any protection which is probably dirt cheap on eBay), then build the protection circuit, put it in a suitable small box or what have you along the cable itself. The only problem is the power it needs to run as that would require two additional wires back to the hotshoe again. It would be interesting to find out how the voltage protection by Paramount works in that regard.

 

[Benwellhopper]

Use the pop up flash This triggers most studio flashs Set the pop up in manual and lower its output to th min
--
Im not interested in the camera, Its what you do with it that counts
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30493037@N05/

 

[motion]

I'll give that a try except there's no way to set the 350D built-in flash to manual. But there is a "flash exposure compensation" feature which I assume adjusts the flash's output power. Will that do?

 

[Benwellhopper]

There should be At a guess set the camera in manual mode Its the best way to go when using strobes
--
Im not interested in the camera, Its what you do with it that counts
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30493037@N05/

 

[nickoly]

There's no mention of the flash-shoe voltage limit in my
Canon EOS-350D manual, but it seems (from lots of different forum
postings here and there) that 6V is the limit.

As I said, check the EOS forum alluded to. I believe the PC terminal is high voltage, the hotshoe low, and these cameras all all kosher with any studio light.

I've read different postings about those "safe sync" PC hotshoe sync devices > and some people claim that they may protect the camera's internal circuitry by > limiting the sync voltage from an external flash, but the limiting voltage might still > be higher than your particular camera can withstand.

Don't be spooked by the ignorant, the circuit you post yourself clearly shows there is no physical connection between the camera and the flash. Others have extremely high resistance, many megohms.

Wireless triggering has been suggested here, which sounds like a good
idea although I have a few concerns:
1) Not all studio flashes might have support for radio controlled
triggering

Any flash will work with any trigger. All it needs is a terminal with a circuit that closes and it will fire. It neither knows nor cares if the circuit is closed by radio or by any other means. Just plug it in.

2) Supposing the flash does support radio triggering, are the
frequencies standardized, or might one brand operate on a certain
frequency band while another brand of studio flash operate on an
entirely different band?

See above. The flash is plugged into a receiver. As long as thwe reciever comers out of the same box as the transmitter, it will be compatible with it.

3) interference from other radio transmitters (I've actually seen
this happen in studio, where someone else in another studio is
apparently using the same radio channel. I know the channels can be
changed, but it's still irritating).

Get a system with plenty of channels, sixteen is probably enough, or learn to live with it. Alternatively, if the interference is coming from an adjacent room, use optical.

3) Like with excessive cellphone use I'm concerned about radiation
exposure. If I can avoid it I will.

The radio link works for a split second only when you press the shutter. If that is seen a problem, moving to Mars might help.

I assume all studio flashes have a wired trigger input, so with a
hotshoe trigger with a built in protection circuit (which actually
works for my particular camera) I would think that I'd be set to work
with any studio flash, right?

Yes, all you need is the cables, the multi connectors, the money to pay for them, and the willingness to live with them.

I came across Paramount cords' voltage protection page
( http://www.paramountcords.com/vp.asp ). Their cables cost $55 extra
with built in voltage protection, which makes the total just under
$100 including shipping. A bit steep for a cable, connector and some
simple components methinks.

Yes.

Someone mentioned these circuits could be made for around $4, so I
searched around a bit and found this schematic:

This is probably the most common method, and certainly the most obvious.

I assume I could buy a bog standard PC-sync
hotshoe adapter (without any protection which is probably dirt cheap
on eBay), then build the protection circuit, put it in a suitable
small box or what have you along the cable itself. The only problem
is the power it needs to run as that would require two additional
wires back to the hotshoe again.

The circuit below uses power from the flash via the sync cord, no batteries needed. I believe the parts will fit into the SM-612 adapter.

 

[nickoly]

I'll give that a try except there's no way to set the 350D built-in
flash to manual.

You can put a blind or reflector in front of the flash so it plays no part in illuminating the subject. You can use a bit of exposed film as an IR pass filter that the slave can see but the camera can't.

 

[motion]

motion wrote:

but the limiting voltage might still > be higher than your particular camera can withstand.

Don't be spooked by the ignorant, the circuit you post yourself
clearly shows there is no physical connection between the camera and
the flash. Others have extremely high resistance, many megohms.

Yes, I believe the opto-isolator is the best way to go, except the problem with separate power needs.

1) Not all studio flashes might have support for radio controlled
triggering

Any flash will work with any trigger. All it needs is a terminal with
a circuit that closes and it will fire. It neither knows nor cares if
the circuit is closed by radio or by any other means. Just plug it in.

My mistake. I was thinking the studio-flash itself had the receiver built-in (which actually is the case for several of the flashes at school), but you're quite right -if I buy a matching transmitter/receiver set the studio flash shouldn't care as long as I plug the receiver into its "sync" connector.

3) Like with excessive cellphone use I'm concerned about radiation
exposure. If I can avoid it I will.

The radio link works for a split second only when you press the
shutter. If that is seen a problem, moving to Mars might help.

I thought they had to have a constant connection, but if this is the case it shouldn't be a problem.

Mars isn't an option ;-)

The circuit below uses power from the flash via the sync cord, no
batteries needed. I believe the parts will fit into the SM-612
adapter.

Cool!

Is there a way to make an opto-isolated version which also takes its power from the sync cord?

Seems like 400V is the limit of those circuits -I assume that means no flash has been found outputting more than 400V?

 

[nickoly]

Is there a way to make an opto-isolated version which also takes its
power from the sync cord?

I don't think so. My SM-512 uses a 3v button battery, so the package is very small. I assume it has an opto isolator

Seems like 400V is the limit of those circuits -I assume that means
no flash has been found outputting more than 400V?

I have never heard of a flash with more than 400v. I don't think there is anything here
http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

You can get 1600v triacs but I doubt it's worth the effort.

 

[motion]

Yes, I've had a look through that list before, but upon closer inspection I just found this:

Vivitar 283: Older units have been reported as high as 600V!
Recent (post-'87) revised 283's ("Made in China") are safer with modern
cameras, running around 9-10V. Bob Atkins reports some as low as 5V.

So a TRIAC being able to handle more than 600V would make it safe even for those flashes. Would the rest of the circuit be the same if I was to get a higher voltage TRIAC?

In a previous posting you mentioned that I could probably fit the circuit into an SM-512. I looked it up on Google and found out that the SM-512 is a hotshoe adaptor which already has voltage protection built in, so making my own would be a waste of time if I was to get one of those. By the way, did you buy yours from here?: http://g9chon.com/HS.html

I see they overcharge on shipping, but as far as I can see there's no other place online you can order them from. Is the site legit? There's no address, phone number or anything except a Gmail email address, so I'm a bit hesitant ordering. Has anyone else here ordered from them?