5DII Video: Not Changing the Game, Finding a Niche.

Bruce Wilson72035

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I read about the HD video recording capabilities being a game changer, but looking at the audio, I can't see it that way.

Built-in mic: a toy at best. We'll not mention it again.

Microphone input: No details yet, but since it's labeled "MIC", I presume it's a mic-level input, not line-level. It's also not labeled "PIP" (for "Plug-in Power," needed to power simple electret mics), so until someone who knows mics plugs in and let's us know, I'll assume we have no PIP.

That leaves two audio input methods: a dynamic mic, and external mic preamp. Dynamic mics, while useful on stage, are practically useless in the field because of the insensitivity and proximity effects making for widely varying audio levels. That leaves us with an external mic preamp. Not that it's a bad thing; mic preamps give you a lot of control over audio, but will only function if the audio level on the camera can be set and the AGC disabled.

Conclusion so far: if you want to use the camera to store your audio, you'll need more equipment besides the mics and cables.

Sync recording: there is no input for timecode (TC). Very big problem. Most professional filming uses a separate sound recorder optimized for great sound, not added as an afterthought (see SoundDevices.com for examples). To keep audio and video synced, time code should be generated by one of the devices, and sent to the other device so that in editing the two will be "locked" and won't require the poor editor to move them relative to each other and fiddle with the clocks to maintain sync.

So without a TC, this camera is destined to shooting unlocked, which leaves it shooting soundless in most professional video applications. B-roll work. Not that B-roill shooting is bad. But it does make the 5DMkII the other camera you bring to a shoot. And then all sorts of gremlins jump out: can the video be made to match the A-roll camera? Primarily in color and frame rate. If not, then it's not even a good B-roll camera. I'm guessing the video quality is very good, and that it might be a straightforward job to get the cameras to match, after a sufficient amount of testing.

But there are some video applications where this camera could shine: Nature filming (not animals, because of the 12 min limit), landscapes, and time-lapse, where the audio is always recorded separately, and never locked (or Foley). For nature and landscapes, it already perfect, with the lens selection available, it's actually about the best camera you could use.

Remaining difficulties: external power, and interval timing. Video field work requires long shoots, and external power is a necessity. The US Canon website shows a DC power adapter, so we're looking good there.

Interval timing: missing. I'm really hoping they can add it, because it seems the buffer is plenty big to handle the long GOP needed for H.264 encoding, and the image quality and lens selection could make this the industry standard for time-lapse work. It would need to be implemented better then the G9 did it, at a minimum the way the Sony PC330 did.

So my idea of the best of all possible 5DMkIIs: an interval timer added to the camera that lets us adjust the interval from .1s to 1d, display a loop of the recent footage after every frame (or at least after every n frames) or display the loop when a button on the remote is pressed, have a settable camera-off timer. Dream function: programmable focus shift. And add TC-in to one of the existing IO jacks.
--
Bruce Wilson
http://science.uvsc.edu/wilson
 
Come on, we all know that a $45K HD video camera can run circles around the 5D MK II. But, that's not the point.

A "Game Changer" is simply something that comes into the marketplace and alters old preconceptions.

I've been shooting video since at least 1968 and digital stills from at least 1997 and I can tell you THIS CAMERA IS A GAME CHANGER.

--
http://3DPrinterUsers.Blogspot.com
 
But some of the limitations imposed by the camera seem so simple to fix. How hard would it be, for example, to disable an auto-levels feature for audio?
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http://www.pbase.com/victorengel/

 
Turn audio ON while filming with the 5D II. Then write software to recognize patterns in the audio to do the syncing. Even if the software doesn't already exist, it shouldn't be that difficult -- certainly much simpler than speech recognition software. It could even be run as an independent process to insert time codes into clips.
--
http://www.pbase.com/victorengel/

 
....Do you assume that the entire CMOS sensor surface/sensel is being used to generate those video feeds?

...Second, external mic. input is available (with very decent PCM-type quality recording), and you can hook-it up in the hot-shoe, thus solving audio problem with best-of-breed mic. solutions.

....In other words, I see much more potential than... simple academic problems (just my opinion). The rest of the issues will mature, as the technology is used more and more (as it will be used, massively ).

See you then.

--

'What we do in life, echoes in eternity...'
 
So without a TC, this camera is destined to shooting unlocked, which
leaves it shooting soundless in most professional video applications.
B-roll work. Not that B-roill shooting is bad.
Regarding B-roll ... matching a 5DM2 B-roll to a sub $10,000 camcorder is not without challenges. If color correction, DOF, etc don't match, the switch between cameras can be distracting. I have a Canon XL H1, and I'd rather not be faced with matching the two cameras.

If I were using a 5DM2 for video, I'd try and use it exclusively and try and deal the with audio issues. Matching video and audio without a time code can be tedious, but doable, and I'd rather be faced with that challenge.

Best,
Christopher
 
....Do you assume that the entire CMOS sensor surface/sensel is being
used to generate those video feeds?

...Second, external mic. input is available (with very decent
PCM-type quality recording), and you can hook-it up in the hot-shoe,
thus solving audio problem with best-of-breed mic. solutions.
With autolevels and no manual settings.
....In other words, I see much more potential than... simple academic
problems (just my opinion). The rest of the issues will mature, as
the technology is used more and more (as it will be used,
massively ).

See you then.

--

'What we do in life, echoes in eternity...'
--
http://bonusphotography.wordpress.com/

 
When the hysteria of the video feature comes down from cloud nine you will realize that Canon has given you a V12 engine with no way of controlling it. Canon is just testing this idea. Look for a dedicated RED killer soon. Canon is a company who is smart about things and the video mode is not their serious attempt.
 
Its not a videorecorder - but you have the ability-be thankful

BUT ON THIS I AGREE :

"So my idea of the best of all possible 5DMkIIs: an interval timer added to the camera that lets us adjust the interval from .1s to 1d, display a loop of the recent footage after every frame (or at least after every n frames) or display the loop when a button on the remote is pressed, have a settable camera-off timer. Dream function: programmable focus shift. And add TC-in to one of the existing IO jacks".

I cant understand wy canon took awya the intervallometer.

mike
 
yes, I think it is a niche product but it might find a lot of use if you give it some time. If the video quality is as stellar as they say, it is simply a relatively cheap option to get very high quality video in studio situations, for scientific use etc. Situations where computer control etc. will help. For those who do mainly photography and occasionally require short high quality video clips, it's really nice that you don't have to purchase additional video equipment and can use most of your Canon DSLR equipment with it'.

I don't ever see it replacing normal videocameras if only because of 'ergonomics'.
 
Puting the TC on the audio track might sort of work, but it depends on how the audio is locked (if it is locked at all) to the video in the MkII. I think we need more info on the details to say. If it's synced using interlace, then there's slop, and the audio TC would have a similar slop.

Anyway, my point is that the camera will do some video things marvelously. But there are many roles with which it is a very poor fit. Anything having to do with audio among them.
--
Bruce Wilson
http://science.uvsc.edu/wilson
 
I cant understand wy canon took awya the intervallometer.
mike
I love having a good interval timer on cameras that record video. Sony had a good thing going, then they went to HD and dropped the interval recording (it's the smooth interval recorders I'm talking about here).

My guess was going from 6 GOP in DV to 30+ GOP in HDV meant the buffer had to be huge. (But come to think of it, I don't know the GOP for the H.264 codec Canon is using, maybe it's shorter.) I'd love for all makers of cameras capable of HD video to have interval recording. It's a blast to use. Especially for landscape guys like myself.

--
Bruce Wilson
http://science.uvsc.edu/wilson
 
Bet if they had forums back then the same type of people (as the OP and other whiners and complainers) would say the same thing.

Complaining about advances in technology because one doesn't have a need for it or doesn't understand it AND without even trying it is pointless.

Exactly like children refusing to eat something because they don't like it, even though they've never tasted it.

Same with the "children" the proliferate these forums.

Gene
 
I have used Canon's video cameras for years and record the audio separately--I prefer the Fostex FR2LE to the SoundDevices, BTW--and the timecode is not necessary.

Assuming the clock is as accurate on the new 5D as canonon's vid cameras, you won't see any drift even in an hour long clip, and the max is less than that anyway. The built in mic of course creates a visual sync pattern for the outboard recorder if you need it, which can be lined up in premiere in a few seconds.
 

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