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D80 over exposure / metering problem (again - sorry!)

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it's easy with sun in the frame too

post a sample and i'll tell you what went wrong if it's not perfect already
 
markdavis said:
good job
the last one has the sand burned a bit. it was far away from the
focus area right? more than 80% is properly exposed so that must be
it. far and/or out of focus

was it a raw? it should be fixable if it was.

if not try to meter on something lighter next time.
it'll preserve more highlights.

you could meter on the sand, matrix would balance the picture more to
the lights
increase light in the dark shadows after, in raw
Click to expand...
If you advocate poor implementation of MM on D80 (I actually have and successfully use) we will not force Nikon to work on better system and solution for this outstanding issue. Your suggestions are valid but not as solution, rather work around the problem. MM in its concept links focusing and metering points - if one has to recompose to meter neglecting the target focus point to obtain shot without blinkies, you call that "just fine"? YMMV, in my books that sucks. BTW I know how to use my camera - I am not on Nikon payroll or fanboy scared to admit this cam has a flaw. Cheers
 
Gliebert said:
I've tried to shoot my kid's soccer games on a sunny day
and they have white jerseys. I've gone down to -1.0 exp comp
and still some whites blink on the highlight display.
Click to expand...
That will happen with white shirts on a sunny day. You want to be careful about trying to get rid of ALL blown highlights, you might just end up with a generally underexposed shot.

Contrary to what some people think, a "correct" exposure is not always achieved by dialling down the exposure until every blinking highlught disappears.

--

 
  • I've been taking photographs for over 30 years.
  • I've had a D80 for 2 years, and it wasn't until I came to these forums that I discovered there was supposed to be a "problem" with the metering. The thousands of well exposed photos I had taken before that must have been dumb luck.
  • If I had taken some of the advice I've read on these forums, probably 80% of my photos would have been seriously underexposed.
  • It's interesting to see people talk about "sigh, you just have to use centre weighted metering and exposure compensation to get a good result" - as though this was some sort of terrible thing for a photographer to have to do.
News flash, guys:

A combination of Centre Weight, lock and recompose, and exposure compensation / Manual exposure, along with a good eye for light and good judgement, are and always have been (IMHO) the keys to successful exposure.

--

 
amck said:
I understand that other people also have this problem - how do you
deal with it (apart from underexposing or fixing it in the photoshop)?

What settings should I change / make sure are on / etc?

Thanks for all comments & advice!
Click to expand...
Simple solution is either to never use MM as it is useless OR to sell the D80 and buy a different camera...I am amazed that the D80 is such a big seller
I owned a D40x for a while, and that seemed just fine
 
thanks for all the comments & advice!

I dont want to give up on Nikon as yet, I feel I need to learn more about the camera and exposure in general and I have seen enough beautiful photos shot with D80 to think that it's possible! So no, I'm not going to sell it and get something else as some people recommended (besides, I have too much invested in the various lenses).

Instead, I'm going to read up on exposure and experiment with CWM, EV and manual exposure (although dont have the luxury of sunny sky here in London).

Thanks for all the comments!

BTW - BoyOhBoy - were your photos on deviantart shot with D40??
 
I don't have a whole lot of time to read all the responses here so I' don't know if this has been mentioned, but I aways make sure I view all my pictures using the histogram as well as the highlight function before I walk away from my subject. It's not always a guarantee, but it's really helped me with those hot spots in my pictures. I had (and still do have) the same problem with my D80 but now that I've figured out the nuances about it, I've really fallen in love with it.

Sarah

--
http://www.bassgal71.smugmug.com
 
ZorSy said:
MM in its
concept links focusing and metering points - if one has to recompose
to meter neglecting the target focus point to obtain shot without
blinkies, you call that "just fine"? YMMV, in my books that sucks.
Click to expand...
Matrix is basically an auto metering mode. When designing it, Nikon correctly assumed that in most cases, what the camera is focusing on should be correctly exposed. Is this really such a strange concept? In this respect, matrix works exactly as intended and perfectly fine.

If one needs more control over metering, the camera has two other modes that also work just fine. There's really no excuse for blowing out skies in a landscape shot other than ignorance of how the metering modes work and which is most useful in a given situation. If there is too much dynamic range, shoot at the lowest ISO possible, underexpose enough to keep the sky from clipping, and bring out the shadows in post.

For those that believe a camera should take perfect photos without any input from the photographer, then yes, the D80's matrix metering is broken. However, it's not a P&S, and as such the photographer (as a photographer rather than a person pointing a camera) needs to know how to best use the tools at their disposal.
 
I would take a guess that you don't have a D80... because to say that MM is useless is well, a very strong (and incorrect) comment to be making. I am not jumping at your throat here, but I have an 80% sucess rate using MM with my D80. The other 20% requires some fine tuning.

Like one of the previous posts, I have a hard time understanding all the complaining with regards to MM as if it were a complete flop (just hasn't been the case for myself).
 
Anymore, I just use auto bracketing and shoot one shot 1/2 under and immediately one shot at the recommended exposure. Most of the time I like the "underexposed" shot the best.
--
Mike
 
.........and amck, that line is not directed at you. I traded my D80 in on my D300, and I can tell you that anybody that says their D80 meters as well as their D300 either has a one in a million D80 or a pi$$ pour D300...my D50!! meters better than my D80.
--
http://www.pbase.com/ddrake
 
Hi,
While this discussion is going on, i have a bit different question.

I own a D40 and am very happy with its MM, i think its the same MM as in D80 (3D color matrix metering II 420 segment RGB sensor)

Now that the D90 is out and the price of of D80 is affordable to me, i wish to buy it, but can anyone please adivse me if the metering is the same (i understand that i have to learn to use it, there is no MM that can read my mind and give me best results)

Also the Dynamic Range, is D40 similar to D80 in or differnt? i am not aware if Dynamic range is a function of Sensor or Metering :(

To the OP, when i bought my D40 i had bit of trouble as what you are advising that blownout sky etc. i was bit annoyed also, but i was coming from a point & shoot camera, so i thought that i must be making some mistake, as if you go to flickr you will find thousands to properly exposed pictures taken with d40.

i will give you an example that will be (i think) helpful.

imagine there is a person standing wearing a dark jacket and there is blue sky in the background, when you take a picture of that person with D80 or D40 the tendency of the MM is that it assumes that (your focus being on the dark jacket) you want to get that focus point properly exposed, as a result it will expose for the jacket (which is dark). in the final image you will be able to see a lot of detail on that dark jacket but as a result the sky will be blown out.

so you can apply this rule to any situation, like a big tree (which will be darker than the blue sky) or any other situation......

if i have to take a a pciture in such scenario, i will use the MM but dial the Exposure compensation to -0.3 or .0-7 or some times -1.0.

some people say to leave the exposure compensation -0.3 or -0.7 dialed for all situations. i personaly think that you have to dial it only when needed.

i hope that the above example is of help to you

cheers

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7243051@N05/
 
binary_eye said:
ZorSy said:
MM in its
concept links focusing and metering points - if one has to recompose
to meter neglecting the target focus point to obtain shot without
blinkies, you call that "just fine"? YMMV, in my books that sucks.
Click to expand...
Matrix is basically an auto metering mode. When designing it, Nikon
correctly assumed that in most cases, what the camera is focusing on
should be correctly exposed. Is this really such a strange concept?
In this respect, matrix works exactly as intended and perfectly fine.
Click to expand...
Don't you see the glitch in your own saying - If Nikon "assumed" in most cases metering is linked to the focus point, why "die hard D80 works perfectly" people consistently advise to meter elsewhere if focus area doesn't give what one wants. It is about concept and the execution. MM as Auto metering should help (my wife) to take good shots when SHE takes my camera and use P or Auto mode. D80 has targeted segment of the market where some may still use the green mode. And in this respect, matrix does not work exactly as intended or perfectly fine. The whole discussion here, though getting more and more twisted is not about you or me being capable of successfully taking technically good shots but the concept in general. The bottom line should D80 metering "as is" be passed onto the next generation of cameras or Nikon has to roll the sleeves up and better the system. Nay-sayers about D80 MM performance and those persistently defending it as good, are granting Nikon licence to push it through another generation of consumer DSLRs without tweaking the quirks it has - so unles we move up in the product line and get that 1005 segment, we will be stuck with "recompose and meter" sytem you find perfectly OK. Not me, thanks.

Wether one gets 80% or 85% good shots using MM (taking due caution how to use it, which means no beer on the next birthday party) I reckon we should be asking for a camera to get 95% of technically good shots even in P (iss) mode.
binary_eye said:
If one needs more control over metering, the camera has two other
modes that also work just fine. There's really no excuse for blowing
out skies in a landscape shot other than ignorance of how the
metering modes work and which is most useful in a given situation. If
there is too much dynamic range, shoot at the lowest ISO possible,
underexpose enough to keep the sky from clipping, and bring out the
shadows in post.

For those that believe a camera should take perfect photos without
any input from the photographer, then yes, the D80's matrix metering
is broken. However, it's not a P&S, and as such the photographer (as
a photographer rather than a person pointing a camera) needs to know
how to best use the tools at their disposal.
Click to expand...
 
If the "experts" here say that MM on the D80 is fine, then it must be your fault !!

Oh...wait a moment....are these the same "experts" that said that we would never see live view and movie mode on a Nikon DSLR??....LOL
 
kodakuser said:
If the "experts" here say that MM on the D80 is fine, then it must be
your fault !!
Oh...wait a moment....are these the same "experts" that said that we
would never see live view and movie mode on a Nikon DSLR??....LOL

--
Click to expand...
Sure thing - MM on my Nikon F was not any good either yet it it did take very good photos - not it is in question if it had one, but whether I needed it.

happy Friday
 
Hi,

First of , the "problem" exists only when using matrix metering, AND IMO THERE IS A SOLUTION.

When using matrix metring on D40 and 80 it SI possible to reduce the risk of blown highlights when using following thechnique :

( Following is an extract about the D80/40 matrix metering from another
The techniqie is not mentioned in the Nikon manual !!!! )

QUOTE

Dayd3 wrote:
I explored a little bit more Matrix metering on D80 and found some
tip on the web how to use this metering in a way which is not
mentioned anywhere in Nikon's manual.

We all agree that Matrix Metering try to protect shadows which very
often finishes in blown out highlights if under our focus point is
something darker than middle gray. While sometimes we want such a
behaviour many times we don't. We also know that by default metering
doesn't lock when shutter is half pressed AE LOCK - off (CSM 19).

But what I didn'rt realize before is that MM also takes two metering
and averages them. For example if we focus on someone's face, half
press shutter and than recompose, instead of simply taking a new
reading camera will average the original exposure and the new one.

If we combine this behaviour with a AE-L/AF-L set to AE Lock Hold or
AE Lock Only (CSM 19) we can actually focus where we like by half
pressing shutter button and holding it (camera focuses and takes
first reading) than we point camera for example to the sky and press
AE-L/AF-L button (or press and hold what depends on our settings CSM
18). Than we recompose again and take picture. In this way MM can
average readings from the darkest and lightest subject and prevent
blown out skies.

This is working only in Matrix metering mode and it seems doesn't
work in AF-C mode.

Link to web page where I found this tip:
http://www.nikoncafe.com/vforums/showthread.php?t=95098

UNQUOTE

I use the above described technique when using matrix metering togetehr with -0.3 stop exposure compensation, and it works. But the BEST solution is to do the metering yourself !!

Brian Petersons book "Understanding Exposure" will teach you about
creative exposure ( how to set aperture and shutterspeed and
determine exposure in M mode - using spot-metering ).

The video "Perfect Exposure for Digital Photography" complements
(goes in to more depth, but on a technical level only ) the several
pages on metering in Bryan Peterson's book Understanding Exposure. I
highly recommend the book and video.

http://www.photoshopcafe.com/video/products/zones.htm

You can find very interesting general photography articles on Ron
Bigelows website : http://www.ronbigelow.com/articles/articles.htm (
also about using photoshop )

Hopes this helps you !!

--
Greetings,
Marc



my photos (under construction):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrbr03/
 
markdavis said:
you could meter on the sand, matrix would balance the picture more to
the lights
increase light in the dark shadows after, in raw
Click to expand...
If you want noisy, detailess images, go with markdavis's advice. If you want images that have maximum detail and minimum noise then blowing a few pixels (only a few mind) is fine when shooting RAW - you will have just maximised the detail that you have captured. Recovering a few blown pixels from a RAW file is easy. Using the markdavis method will mean noisy horrid shadows and a lack of fine details. In fact save yourself time, effort and money by using a cheap point and shoot instead - the results will be similar. Or get great results by maximising the detail captured in RAW and adjust accordingly in PP.
 
I think 99% of D80 owners who have taken the time to learn how to use their cameras aren't complaining. They love the camera. When I look at the histograms on most of the photos I take with my D80, the white point is close to the right edge, which to me means a near perfect exposure. But as I do with my N80 35mm, I always bracket important shots to increase my odds of a perfect exposure. I often do bracket at 1/2 under just in case.
--
Mike
 
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