Leica Fans are forming a line to buy LX3s

[Virgil22]

@IKB "100% more for 99% same camera". Really? ...

LX2 MSRP $499 (now available for
D-Lux-3 MRSP $599 (now available for

LX-2 warranty 1 year
D-Lux-3 warranty 2 years

LX-2 no SD card
D-Lux-3 64MB card

LX-2 Arcsoft Camera Suite
D-Lux-3 Photoshop Elements 4

JPEG on-camera processing is also apparently different between the two, but the jury is still out on which is "better". Some people say the Leica saturates the colors a bit less than the Panny. It's not an issue if you shoot RAW.

Granted the "extras" on the Leica are not exactly worth the difference in price. The 64MB SD card is practically useless on a camera where every photo is 10MB. The version of Photoshop is not compatible with Windows Vista. Personally I'd prefer if Leica really "tricked out" the camera - include the full version of PS, a 4GB card, and maybe a case.

I own a D-Lux-3 (just bought it this year), so please don't label me as a Leica apologist. I like the dimensions and feel of the camera (didn't like the bulge on the front of the LX2). I like the unadorned black color with no spangly / shiny bits on the front. Most of all I like the images it produces.

There seems to be a lot of hate for Leica owners here, and I agree that for a lot of people dropping $several k on a top of the range camera is just completely crazy. BUT, we're not talking those numbers.... we're talking a difference of

 

[Greg Gebhardt]

--
Greg Gebhardt in
Jacksonville, Florida

 

[saotupp]

I would not EVER buy a Panny camera till they got their prices within
reason.

--
Greg Gebhardt in
Jacksonville, Florida

Heh, I think that people here in Europe don't have choice.

LX3 499€ = $785
G9 433€
LX2 405€
FZ50 440€
GRD II 510€
D-LUX 3 599€
DP1 699€ = $1100 !!!

--

If a man empties his purse into his head, no one can take it away from him. An investment of knowledge always pays the best interest.

 

[Kirwin]

There seems to be a lot of hate for Leica owners here,

Huh? A lot of hate? Based on what?

--



Regards,
Kirwin
http://timebandit.smugmug.com

 

[Ehrik]

...
DP1 699€ = $1100 !!!

Not to forget the L1 kit which in Sweden was the equivalent of $3,000+
most of its first year.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden

 

[Marty4650]

There seems to be a lot of hate for Leica owners here, and I agree
that for a lot of people dropping $several k on a top of the range
camera is just completely crazy.

I don't know how you got "hate" from me saying that:

"the folks on the Leica forum are smarter than us"... and that
"That's the kind of brand loyalty you really must admire."

And I also mentioned:
"PS: I own a M3, so I am a fellow traveller...."

--
Marty
http://flickr.com/photos/7735239@N02/sets/72157604030772272/detail/

Panasonic FZ7, FZ30, LX2

 

[tinternaut]

For the reminder that it is the skill of the person behind the camera. I preferred the second BTW - I'm sure I've contemplated the first before and just don't get minimalism when it's so....... minimal...

--
Regards
J



http://www.flickr.com/photos/jason_hindle

Gear in profile

 

[tinternaut]

Indeed, when you factor in the duty your government collects at the border, the VAT you pay when you buy it and the tax you already pay on your income, life in Old Europe (ake the chocolate producing countries) isn't cheap. Just remember when you fork our your £399 or €499 for the LX3 that health care is not a problem (and doesn't run out half way through your treatment).

--
Regards
J



http://www.flickr.com/photos/jason_hindle

Gear in profile

 

[JimRockfordII]

I recently got a D-lux 3 and love it, got it from a specialist shop, mint but secondhand 12 month warranty all boxed with leather case and spare battery £350 UK a great deal I have had so much fun using it. I have had plenty of time to see that there are no obvious faults with it and am very pleased with image quality. the same could be done for the for the d-lux 4 wait a year or two see if there are any major problems then get a mint s/hand one from someone who just had to have an M8 whatever. I had no more plans to buy another camera the d-lux is just right for me to carry everywhere, although the 24mm and 18mm with adaptor plus a hot shoe seem too good to miss, if it is able to match IQ of my d-lux 3 I would seriously think of upgrading in a year or two, i could even use it with my ir trigger and studio flash, also the double lugs and half case would be sooo useful. Its an exciting time in cameras. I have an e-330 with 14-54 for tricky stuff but find myself using the d-lux 3 more and more its so easy to carry around in the leather case. cheers....paul
--
Ladies, leave your clothes here and spend the afternoon having a good time.
-- Rome laundry

http://www.rockford-photography.co.uk
http://www.flickr.com/photos/leica-torquay/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rockford-photography/

 

[davephdv]

The announcment has everything in it that I would want to change on my LX2. If true I have to get one.

I think I will wait for the Lecia version though so I can shell out an extra 150.00$.
--
http://web.mac.com/daveburroughs/iWeb/Site%204/Welcome.html

Beat Army!

 

[davoe]

$1100 AUD shop price for the D lux 3
honestly what are they thinking?

 

[tjkoko]

...Other Planets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hare Krisna!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--
kokopuffs

 

[Undah]

I totally want one, but have to admit 60mm on the long end makes for a boring range (for me).

Maybe if it lives up to all the hype I can justify it instead of another DSLR lens to get the extra 3mm on the wide end.

 

[Jim Radcliffe]

I bought the Leica D-Lux 3 over the Panasonic knowing that it was 99% Panasonic. Yes, I paid extra and did so willingliy because the D-Lux 3 was a better deal to me.. but not only that.. the D-Lux 3 looked better.

I know looks has nothing to do with the images a camera produces.. but, we all have our own tastes when it comes to style and the main reason I bought the d-Lux 3 over the LX2 was a matter of style, warranty, and software. I've not regretted it.

Resale... check eBay and Craig's list and up until the announcement of the LX3 the D-Lux 3 was holding its value quite a bit better than the LX2. It's probably still doing so. No one should buy a camera as an investment but we all want our gear to hold its value.

Oh, that little red dot... Most of the people I know have no clue about Leica.. some of them have never heard of it.. we're talking normal people here, not gearheads... as for a few of my gearhead friends (toting massive DSLRs) they are quite amazed at the images I've produced with the D-Lux 3... ( http://www.boxedlight.com/dlux3 ) and don't forget my main camera is a Canon 5D. Which do I carry most of the time? The D-Lux 3.

So, yes, the LX3 looks very appealing to me. It simply HAS to be better than the D-Lux 3.. and that's all I really need to know. I will wait and see how Leica packages the LX3 before I decide which to buy.
--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com/dp1
http://www.boxedlight.com/dlux3
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear.

 

[IKB]

If you check out the completed sales on UK ebay, you will see that the drop in price between new and ebay sale for both LX2 and D-Lux 3 is about £100-£150. So there is no advantage in going for the Leica version over the Panasonic version there as far as I can see, especially as you have to pay out about £120 more to buy the Leica version in the first place.

--
Malcy
----------------



http://www.flickr.com/photos/malcy/sets
http://picasaweb.google.com/lumachrome

 

[john10001]

I would not EVER buy a Panny camera till they got their prices within
reason.

--
Greg Gebhardt in
Jacksonville, Florida

I am and I won't. I might take a look at one in the shops over here after I've read reviews and seen sample images etc but will be buying from the States.

I've done a few rough calculations based on the US price plus shipping to the UK and factoring in tax and duty, and I figure I'll save just over £50 that's an 1/8th of its retail value in the UK, about a 14% saving by getting it from the States.

John

 

[Jim Radcliffe]

Resale is really not the important aspect. Here in the states the Leica seems to hold its value over the LX2.

Personally, resale value is of no real importance to me as I tend to hang on to cameras for a long time. I'm not the gearhead who thnks his camera quits working when a replacement arrives.
--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com/dp1
http://www.boxedlight.com/dlux3
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear.

 

[Jim Radcliffe]

$1100 AUD shop price for the D lux 3
honestly what are they thinking?

The same thing they are thinking with $5K+ for the M8. As big a fan of Leica as I am I find the price of the M8 to be way off base. $3,800 would be about right and frankly I think it would boost sales and bring new people into the ranfefinder fold.. but what do I know? I've only been part of the marketing community for most of my life.

They want to keep the M# RF as high as possible and forget bringing in new blood to the RF field. Make it affordable and they will come... or... status quo... and eventual extinction.

--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com/dp1
http://www.boxedlight.com/dlux3
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear.

 

[Marty4650]

Jim.

Your position makes perfect sense.

There are many things we pay a little more for because we like the style.

You didn't mention customer service, and Leica customer service is legendary. While Panasonic's is inconsistent. Sometimes very good, sometimes not so good.

Leica couldn't get those prices unless their customers percieved some value in their products. And that value can be things other than specifications. It can be style, service, warranty and even status.

What is ironic is that the same product is essentially being marketed to two very different groups of customers. The Panasonic customer tends to be very value oriented, and has very little interest in status or cache.

And the bottom like is that for some people an extra few hundred dollars really doesn't matter. When you visit the Leica forum, you rarely see posts asking "where can I get the best deal on a D-Lux 3?" On the Panasonic forum, folks are CONSTANTLY posting the lowest current price for a TZ5... until someone else finds one $10 lower!

The name "Leica" is recognized worldwide as a prestiege product. Their customers are more likely to drive BMW's and wear Rolex watches. When your hear the name Leica, you associate the brand with other European luxury brands like Porsche, Breitling, and Monteblanc.

"Panasonic" is best known for making TVs, toasters, microwave ovens, and even vaccum cleaners. The Panasonic customer is likely to drive a Toyota or Honda, and wear a Seiko or Citizen wristwatch. When you hear Panasonic, you associate that brand with other Asian electronics companies, like Samsung, Toshiba and Sanyo.

"Leica" means only one thing: First rate optics.
"Panasonic" means: anything and everything that runs on electric power
--
Marty
http://flickr.com/photos/7735239@N02/sets/72157604030772272/detail/

Panasonic FZ7, FZ30, LX2

 

[Jim Radcliffe]

Jim.

Your position makes perfect sense.

I agree, of course.

There are many things we pay a little more for because we like the
style.

Absolutly.. I'll take an iPhone over any other right now.. but I'm waiting a few months.. besides style, the thing just works.

You didn't mention customer service, and Leica customer service is
legendary. While Panasonic's is inconsistent. Sometimes very good,
sometimes not so good.

I've never had to use customer service for my Canon's or my Pana-Leica but I've heard that Leica is very good.

Leica couldn't get those prices unless their customers percieved some
value in their products. And that value can be things other than
specifications. It can be style, service, warranty and even status.

Unfortunatly the last one is often the one other camera users label Leica owners with. More money than ability and willing to prove it by buying a $5K rangefinder and trying to take a shot with the lens cap on.

What is ironic is that the same product is essentially being marketed
to two very different groups of customers. The Panasonic customer
tends to be very value oriented, and has very little interest in
status or cache.

Understood and agree.

And the bottom like is that for some people an extra few hundred
dollars really doesn't matter. When you visit the Leica forum, you
rarely see posts asking "where can I get the best deal on a D-Lux 3?"
On the Panasonic forum, folks are CONSTANTLY posting the lowest
current price for a TZ5... until someone else finds one $10 lower!

Well, every penny matters to me but I am willing to pay for what I want. And what I want does not need the endorsement of anyone but me.. that is my right and my right alone. Some seem to get offended when they see others spending "needlessly".

The name "Leica" is recognized worldwide as a prestiege product.
Their customers are more likely to drive BMW's and wear Rolex
watches. When your hear the name Leica, you associate the brand with
other European luxury brands like Porsche, Breitling, and Monteblanc.

This is the paragraph I really wanted to respond to. I drive a 1994 Geo Tracker with almost 180,000 miles on it.. it has a hole in the roof, leaks water in storms but it just keeps running... I quit wearing a watch 10 years ago when I quit wearing jewelry of any kind. The only watch I own today is a Timex that cost $29 but I've not worn it but once in the last year. Leica is not a status symbol to me. It is a finely crafted tool, fine optics and quality imaging system. Status is only perceived by others... and that is not my problem but their misconception. I just use the tools that work the best and "feel" the best to me.

"Panasonic" is best known for making TVs, toasters, microwave ovens,
and even vaccum cleaners. The Panasonic customer is likely to drive a
Toyota or Honda, and wear a Seiko or Citizen wristwatch. When you
hear Panasonic, you associate that brand with other Asian electronics
companies, like Samsung, Toshiba and Sanyo.

I just bought a Panasonic speakerphone for $29.95 a couple of days ago because my old phone was dying on me and I knew I was going to have to talk to some tech support types in Bangalor or wherever and I would need to type and operate the computer while talking to them... that $30 Panasonic phone is absolutly the best speakerphone I have ever owned... great audio, great sensitivity, etc.. I also have a Panasonic shortwave radio (general purpose receiver) I bought over 25 years ago... and it still works today.. it's in my shop out in the garage and I use it often. In other words.......

I would say that Panasonic is also known for quality and value. That's been my experience.

"Leica" means only one thing: First rate optics.
"Panasonic" means: anything and everything that runs on electric power

We do agree but I believe that Panasonic is actually a bit higher in the food chain than most people give them credit for. They make good, affordable products.. and the proof is that Leica found their cameras good enough to rebranded with that little red dot.

--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com/dp1
http://www.boxedlight.com/dlux3
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear.