Is Sally Mann a pornographer?

[Billx08]

There are a number of videos on YouTube about her.
One that you might enjoy if you are a fan, is a pretty
new one showing here working with those glass plates
on the civil war battlefield series:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khn5GN9cHWA

Err, my dialup doesn't go down that road of the information highway. The reason I stayed with it for decades instead of switching to cable or DSL was that someone once told me that Billy Gates hisself once said that nobody needs more than 64kbps. Or something like that.

When I first saw the name Sally Mann mentioned in this thread I recalled a cover story in a photo magazine several years ago that included pictures from a controversial book of photos taken by a female photographer. The subjects were also children, but mostly crying or in some mild distress - not nude. The image quality was exceptionally high, but I thought that her pictures had a lot more going for them than just near technical perfection. I wonder if someone here might recognize the book and would be able to identify the photographer?

 

[Billx08]

Here's the chance for your dream to become reality,
do a search for Jeanneke-Pis, the female version of
Manneken. This is as legitimate art as Manneken is.

Then there's the fountain of the lactating ladies.

gee, could it be
the same or another
princess_peepee?

 

[morninglight]

Probably her.

Her series on the her kids includes basically, daily life, for them. This includes, crying and injuries also.

The series/book is, "Immediate Family".

--

'Good composition is only the strongest way of seeing the subject. It cannot be taught because, like all creative effort, it is a matter of personal growth. In common with other artists the photographer wants his finished print to convey to others his own response to his subject. In the fulfillment of this aim, his greatest asset is the directness of the process he employs. But this advantage can only be retained if he simplifies his equipment and technique to the minimum necessary, and keeps his approach free from all formula, art-dogma, rules, and taboos. Only then can he be free to put his photographic sight to use in discovering and revealing the nature of the world he lives in.'
Edward Weston, Camera Craft Magazine, 1930.

'Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside a dog, it's too dark to read.' G. Marx

 

[Roger Krueger]

And she does have torso nudity, but no genitals.

The basic premise is she gives the kids lollipops, strips them to the waist, then grabs the lollipop back to make them cry. A photo is taken, given bizarrely over-the-top post, and called a political statement.

There was a HUGE dustup over this a couple of years ago, Thomas Hawk over-reacted and called it "child abuse", then Greenberg's husband over-reacted much further, going so far as outing Hawk's real name (a loosely-held secret in any event), coming up with some pretty wild lies, and calling his employer. Outraged blog posts followed by nasty comments (from both sides) were everywhere for a while. The "lives-to-vent" class had a field day. A tiny sampling:

http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jul/24/entertainment/et-kids24

http://thomashawk.com/2006/04/jill-greenberg-is-sick-woman-who.html

http://thomashawk.com/2006/06/post-about-where-jill-greenberg-thinks.html

http://www.kantor.com/blog/2006/06/jill-greenberg-child-abuser/

http://modernartobsession.blogs.com/modern_art_obsession/2006/06/photographer_ji.html

 

[Fred Ferkel]

I wasn't aware of her work, I image-googled her name, some B/W images of naked children came up. Nothing pornographic about these images unless your mind says there are. But I understand, in current days, nude images of underage children are an absolute no-no in society, even if they're made by parents of their own children without any underlying intentions. I don't think this woman should be publishing these images of her children though, regardless how artistic she may feel they are.

 

[shay guevara]

I have been challenged, more than once, to check out the work of this
photographer, being led to believe that this person was a shining
example of photographic excellence. I googled said photographer as I
had no knowledge of her work.

Unfortunately what I discovered was not a photographer that I would
wish to emulate, but a pornographer, who's sole purpose appears to be
taking advantage of , not just children but her own children,
photographing them in sexualy explicit poses.

Why this woman has not been imprisoned is beyond belief. Only in
America?
--
Kind Regards
Dennis P O'Neil APSNZ
'War does not determine who is right, only who is left'

I did not know her work before your post & I'm impressed. Both the stuff she was doing back then and her current work are very good and interesting.

So thanks for the heads up.
--
Shay son of Che

 

[D P O'neil]

What bothered me is how disturbing I found the whole experience. Here is a mother who seemingly exploits her own children.

When did it become ok to do this to our kids? I must have missed that. We are supposed to love and nurture and protect our children, not exploit them in such a dreadful manner.

If Sally Mann had taken photo's of her children fully clothed, how many photographs or books would she have sold? I suspect none and we would be saying Sally who?
--
Kind Regards
Dennis P O'Neil APSNZ
'War does not determine who is right, only who is left'

 

[D P O'neil]

. . .sexually explicit or even worse - pornographic - you have
serious, serious issues.
-

So is it ok in your world to exploit our children? Is that how we protect , nourish and respect our children?
--
Kind Regards
Dennis P O'Neil APSNZ
'War does not determine who is right, only who is left'

 

[Jeppe76]

Why is it dreadful to publicize your art photography of your naked children that they willfully agreed to do? I'd say it's much more dreadful when parents are forcing their kids to play soccer or football - in order for the parents to overcome their traumas of the past (not being the cool kid on the block).

Furthermore: These are not sexualized pictures in any way that I can see. Maybe I'm too innocent. But maybe the photographer indeed MEANT to step close enough to the edge that she would create a discussion about the nature of nakedness and innocence and their own . You know, making people reflect upon society is part of the mission of art.

 

[D P O'neil]

--Agreed to this exposure? These are children for heavens sake. Do we as a society no longer value our children ? Have they become chattels to do with as we please?
I am appalled at the reaction that most of you have shown here.

God help our kids is all I can say.

Kind Regards
Dennis P O'Neil APSNZ
'War does not determine who is right, only who is left'

 

[D P O'neil]

Í did not dare taking a look at her site, but your description of her
work makes me shiver. Exploiting your own children, that is so wrong.

--

Thank you so much, I was starting to feel very alone.

--
Kind Regards
Dennis P O'Neil APSNZ
'War does not determine who is right, only who is left'

 

[D P O'neil]

I have been challenged, more than once, to check out the work of this
photographer, being led to believe that this person was a shining
example of photographic excellence. I googled said photographer as I
had no knowledge of her work.

Unfortunately what I discovered was not a photographer that I would
wish to emulate, but a pornographer, who's sole purpose appears to be
taking advantage of , not just children but her own children,
photographing them in sexualy explicit poses.

Why this woman has not been imprisoned is beyond belief. Only in
America?
--
Kind Regards
Dennis P O'Neil APSNZ
'War does not determine who is right, only who is left'

I did not know her work before your post & I'm impressed. Both the
stuff she was doing back then and her current work are very good and
interesting.

So thanks for the heads up.
--
Shay son of Che

I sincerely hope that you do not have any children of your own.

--
Kind Regards
Dennis P O'Neil APSNZ
'War does not determine who is right, only who is left'

 

[igb]

Them photographers, that is.

Allow me to start with Roy Stuart.

Regards. ;P

--
-------------------------------------------------------
My Galleries: http://webs.ono.com/igonzalezbordes/index.html

 

[shay guevara]

I have been challenged, more than once, to check out the work of this
photographer, being led to believe that this person was a shining
example of photographic excellence. I googled said photographer as I
had no knowledge of her work.

Unfortunately what I discovered was not a photographer that I would
wish to emulate, but a pornographer, who's sole purpose appears to be
taking advantage of , not just children but her own children,
photographing them in sexualy explicit poses.

Why this woman has not been imprisoned is beyond belief. Only in
America?
--
Kind Regards
Dennis P O'Neil APSNZ
'War does not determine who is right, only who is left'

I did not know her work before your post & I'm impressed. Both the
stuff she was doing back then and her current work are very good and
interesting.

So thanks for the heads up.
--
Shay son of Che

I sincerely hope that you do not have any children of your own.

--
Kind Regards
Dennis P O'Neil APSNZ
'War does not determine who is right, only who is left'

Well I'm afraid your hope is dashed. Two daughters, one recently qualified as a Doctor. The other is still at university.

Sorry if I missed it, but your point was?
--
Shay son of Che

 

[shay guevara]

Í did not dare taking a look at her site, but your description of her
work makes me shiver. Exploiting your own children, that is so wrong.

--

Thank you so much, I was starting to feel very alone.

--
Kind Regards
Dennis P O'Neil APSNZ
'War does not determine who is right, only who is left'

When she isnt riding her broomstick, Steffi prays for our souls. If you need allies that badly, there may be better choices.
--
Shay son of Che

 

[fyngyrz]

No. Please leave your automatic assignment of sexuality to nudity at the door. Thank you.

 

[D P O'neil]

You, sir or madam, are the problem.

Really? A woman strips her children, photographs them naked, makes a living selling the photographs of her exploited children, and you think I am the problem?

--
Kind Regards
Dennis P O'Neil APSNZ
'War does not determine who is right, only who is left'

 

[Jeppe76]

Yes. You are indeed the problem. Your link between sexuality and nudity is quite honestly disturbing to someone who has a freer mind than you do. Maybe it is time to grow up a bit and get some perspective, so you don't get completely neurotic kids?

 

[Humpo]

Unfortunately what I discovered was not a photographer that I would
wish to emulate, but a pornographer, who's sole purpose appears to be
taking advantage of , not just children but her own children,
photographing them in sexualy explicit poses.

You see those poses as sexually explicit? You really are a sick person. Get help before it is too late.

 

[Olga Johnson]

...is pornography, nor is all pornography nude.

Walk into my 86 year old mother's house, and there is a 8x10 framed picture of my (now near 60 year old) brother at 6 months old, laying on his stomach in the nude, with a most beautiful smile on his face and a pretty curl on top of his head, taken in a photo studio in 1949. Call that pornography and that religious 5 ft. octogenarian mother would hit you over the head with her cane.

I can think of many ways that some parents exploit their children and they don't necessarily involve a stage of undress. Her work is not disturbing to me. I tend to be disturbed more by the negative reactions to her works and the labeling of the photographer as a pornographer. That says more about the viewer than the photographer, IMHO.

Olga