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DrFogg

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It occurs to me that we must all be mad, when i started photography i took my pictures to the chemist, got them back and that was it. i was quite happy.Then came the computer age to simplify all our lives, to carry out tasks in nano seconds that would take us weeks to do manualy, it seemed so good.

The truth is that nowadays we need a high level of computer literacy and still simple tasks are a nightmare, such as how to post a pic. Why isnt there a button saying POST PIC? Pictures now have to be un sharpened to sharpen them (Whats that all about?) resized to view them, converted to rgb or srgb and made into a tip pif pof dof or what have you. By this time i have usualy lost the picture somewhere in the bowells of my hard drive only to be viewed when i dont want to see it.

And just what is the net result of all this techy stuff? Well while your sat at home doing all that, your not taking pictures. Its about time computers worked for us not the other way round, simplify all these tasks i have enough problems getting my DVD machine to record.
--

 
Well, you could do it the old way, you know...

1. Take pictures - a few or until the memory is full (e.g. film runs out)
2. Bring chip (film) to CVS
3. Have CVS make prints
4. Have CVS burn CD of pictures (bring home the negatives)
5. Share with friends and family

6. Someone wants a copy? Bring CD (negatives) back to CVS and have a reprint made.

Simple enough. It's even simple to have them throw a picture onto a mug or other trinket - something that wasn't easy in the film days!

D.
 
Especially those of us who--in addition to all the activities you describe--spend time in photo chatrooms like this one!

But I at least have learned new skills, and that always is fun, and hopefully will keep Alzheimer's at bay.

FF
 
DrFogg said:
It occurs to me that we must all be mad, when i started photography i
took my pictures to the chemist, got them back and that was it. i was
quite happy.
Click to expand...
Well, what is stopping you? Just take your memory card down to the chemist or camera store and have them print your pictures for you.
Some things never change ;-)

--
Steve
Zurich, Switzerland
Canon 450D & S3 IS
http://www.pbase.com/steveh
 
You seem to forget that in the days of film many people spent hours in dark rooms processing their own negatives and printing photos. Where do you think the terms burning and dodging in Photoshop come from?
 
This struck such a chord with me - but maybe on a slightly divergent tack.

DrFogg is dead right - it SHOULD be all much simpler. But is it? Many of us seem to be chained to our PC's, not our cameras.

I suppose it's just the same as it always was. Some people blast away and get Happy Snaps to process their films, then edit by throwing away the rubbish. Some people lovingly photoshop (the way people used to dodge and burn for real)

Been there, done that. How many people actually did it in colour though? I seem to remember that you had to work totally in the dark for colour. Not at all the same as the monochrome magic of mixing your chemicals, watching the images fading up from white in that evocative orange glow

Digital is such a liberator. My old (and new) Canon lenses on a body that gives me the best part of a thousand shots (not 36 as in film days). Being able to put the drive in continuous and see what happens just for the hell of it. Being able to check on the spot if what you just tried came anywhere near working.

But in the end I've always felt (digital or film) photography is about being in the right place with the right light and at the right time. Sometimes for a great shot you'll have to compromise the light. Photography is about what happens at the point with the camera in your hand when you press the shutter release and those few photons are focused on the sensor. After that (in photoshop or DXO or whatever) you're just repairing the mistakes and inaccuracies. I get far more pleasure from remembering what was happening and why I took the picture than I do from trying to bring up the shadow detail or obsessing about blown highlights.

(I remember an article by a landscape photographer who said that composition was the easy bit. You see the shot, compose it, set the camera up on the tripod, frame it precisely. Then you wait. For the light to arrive.) They were right. The light does arrive - usually - a couple of hours before sunset, and just after sunrise. But it doesn't last long.

Don't even start me on L glass or front focussing...

Just get out there and wear out those shutters, for heaven's sake. Then you can move your lenses onto the next great camera from your chosen manufacturer. (is anyone with any investment in lenses able to move manufacturers?) Take more photographs. Look for criticism (be critical yourself - if you're brave enough ask others(I don't think I am by the way) ) Try to take better photographs. And enjoy the time you spend with a camera in your hands.

Sorry - I think I may have had too much wine with supper

Cheers

Simon
350D 580EX EFS 10-22 EFS 17-85 IS EFS18-55 EF28-105 EF50 1.8 EF70-300 IS

Most often it's the 17-85 IS to keep them (acceptably)sharp and DXO to take out the distortion.
I wish my photography was good enough to worry that my lenses weren't
 
gthull644 said:
You seem to forget that in the days of film many people spent hours
in dark rooms processing their own negatives and printing photos.
Where do you think the terms burning and dodging in Photoshop come
from?
Click to expand...
Yes in fact i did so myself but only black and white, but the hardest part was reading the labels on the developer and fixer bottles. The technology we now face is complicated. im not a stupid man but to use layers for instance is not easy, ive done it, but when i come to do it again i have to re learn it all. i love digital photography, the instant results and cheapness of it, all i am asking for is simple sofware which should be possible given the computing power at our fingertips.

maybe my problem is i dont do enough to make learning all these skills worth while, if i used layers 20 times a day i have no doubt it would become second nature, but i dont. i am calling for better systems all round that assume the users are total idiots. i will try picaso by the way.
--

 
Simon P said:
This struck such a chord with me - but maybe on a slightly divergent
tack.

DrFogg is dead right - it SHOULD be all much simpler. But is it? Many
of us seem to be chained to our PC's, not our cameras.

I suppose it's just the same as it always was. Some people blast away
and get Happy Snaps to process their films, then edit by throwing
away the rubbish. Some people lovingly photoshop (the way people used
to dodge and burn for real)

Been there, done that. How many people actually did it in colour
though? I seem to remember that you had to work totally in the dark
for colour. Not at all the same as the monochrome magic of mixing
your chemicals, watching the images fading up from white in that
evocative orange glow

Digital is such a liberator. My old (and new) Canon lenses on a body
that gives me the best part of a thousand shots (not 36 as in film
days). Being able to put the drive in continuous and see what happens
just for the hell of it. Being able to check on the spot if what you
just tried came anywhere near working.

But in the end I've always felt (digital or film) photography is
about being in the right place with the right light and at the right
time. Sometimes for a great shot you'll have to compromise the light.
Photography is about what happens at the point with the camera in
your hand when you press the shutter release and those few photons
are focused on the sensor. After that (in photoshop or DXO or
whatever) you're just repairing the mistakes and inaccuracies. I get
far more pleasure from remembering what was happening and why I took
the picture than I do from trying to bring up the shadow detail or
obsessing about blown highlights.

(I remember an article by a landscape photographer who said that
composition was the easy bit. You see the shot, compose it, set the
camera up on the tripod, frame it precisely. Then you wait. For the
light to arrive.) They were right. The light does arrive - usually -
a couple of hours before sunset, and just after sunrise. But it
doesn't last long.

Don't even start me on L glass or front focussing...

Just get out there and wear out those shutters, for heaven's sake.
Then you can move your lenses onto the next great camera from your
chosen manufacturer. (is anyone with any investment in lenses able to
move manufacturers?) Take more photographs. Look for criticism (be
critical yourself - if you're brave enough ask others(I don't think I
am by the way) ) Try to take better photographs. And enjoy the time
you spend with a camera in your hands.

Sorry - I think I may have had too much wine with supper

Cheers

Simon
350D 580EX EFS 10-22 EFS 17-85 IS EFS18-55 EF28-105 EF50 1.8 EF70-300 IS
Most often it's the 17-85 IS to keep them (acceptably)sharp and DXO
to take out the distortion.
I wish my photography was good enough to worry that my lenses weren't
Click to expand...
--I enjoyed this upload and i can tell that your more intereted in pictures than messing about on a pc. i agree with you the wonderful advantages digital allows. i remember being allowed one picture a day on my pocket money, and it was therfore 36 days before the film finished plus a week processing before i saw a single one!!! Thats all a given, but spending half the night trying to upload a picture on here using a host and resizing etc etc is crazy, why cant the pc do all that at the touch of a button. learning post processing is not what i became a photographer for, and dont tell me to go the point and shoot route, i shouldnt need to, we need much more thought and effort put into the program interfaces.

 
... and mean ones. At least you're mellow! (and I'm about to have a glass myself).

And digital is such a liberator. To instantly see that my supposedly carefully composed shot sucks, without having to wait a week to know that my finger was sticking in front of the lens is liberating!

To spend an hour or so in Photoshop perfecting my self styled "masterpiece" in my digital darkroom, sipping a nice glass of something, doing far more than what a pro used to spend hours and hours in a darkroom doing while inhaling noxious fumes (and I'm not talking single-malt scotch here...) is liberating!

Being able to immediately print my own 13x19 borderless prints is liberating!

Being able to post pix on my web site for my kids and friends to view instantly (and viewing their pix in turn) from the far side of the continent is liberating!

Yesterday I got an intervalometer and am experimenting with making time-lapse movies that I can play on my HDTV. Could that be done with a film camera? For $89? In 30 minutes? All I need now is a good sunset... Its liberating!

It does take considerable overhead to learn this stuff. And it should be easier, I agree. However, for me its an enjoyable hobby. I like it!

If one does not like all that stuff (and no criticism of DrFogg intended -- my wife is of like mind, and I wouldn't dare contradict her ;), then take your SD card on down to the local drug store (somehow I've always like the English "chemist", a much more refined term). Its cheaper and faster than printing film used to be!

That's the nice thing about digital photography for me, you can take it at any level you want. But yes, the simple things really should be simpler.
--
Dan

p.s. the 1995 Trader Joe's California Coastal Cab Sauv is not bad for the price
 
I would say it's a trade off. With film you learned slowly because you couldn't change the setting to try something different on the fly. The learning curve becomes so much quicker now for someone starting in SLRs. That time can be used to become adept at editing photos. Unfortunately, that means anyone that came from film had traverse a whole new learning curve. For those that came during the digital age(me), it opens up more avenues that would have been costly, both with time and money compared to now. I would have never have considered a DSLR if film was still around.
 
DrFogg said:
Why isnt there a button saying POST PIC?
Click to expand...
There is one in ZoomBrowser called "Auto Adjustment". Picasa has one called "I feel lucky". Actually a number of programs have one step correction and bundled upload services that will post, resize and share like Picasa. Why don't you use one of these programs? Or as mentioned you can outsource this by dropping dropping your memory card off at a processor or using their kiosk.
DrFogg said:
By this time i have usualy lost the picture somewhere
in the bowells of my hard drive only to be viewed when i dont want to
see it.
Click to expand...
In the old days it was a shoebox or one of countless slide trays.

--
Erik
 
I do agree with your main point that many PC functions should be made easier. However, as mentioned, there are many pc software packages that do just that for photography (most have been mentioned (Picasa, Photoscape, Irfanview, etc.).

I'm not sure, exactly what you are using layers for (there are many reasons to) but if it is to be non-destructive, most of those same programs do that w/o the need for layers. If for other reasons, well, then you are probably doing some more detailed editing and just like you learned to read the label and the amout of chemical to use, your going to have to learn a little more in this new era of photography.

However, that's not an excuse for the lack of easier and better stuff!! (developers listen up :)
--
ErikH
Equipment in Profile
http://www.pbase.com/snapman/350d_xt
 
And Simon must have been drinking a good wine. I used to spend hours in the darkroom making dramatic, some would say "fake," photos. In fact, there's almost nothing you can do digitally that you couldn't do with film, albeit with more trouble and more slowly. There may still be a few things you can do with film that you can't do digitally; the obvious one I miss is easy double-exposures. I bought my first good SLR (Minolta SRT 101) at a chemist but I don't use drugstores for photography anymore. It also turns out that for us Canon users, Zoombrowser has tones, levels, curves, and other things to play with that I'm learning about, but my primary focus (pun intended) remains on the shooting part, rather than the processing part.

I remember how delighted I was with my first automatic exposure, autofocus film SLR; it allowed me to take underwater photos that I never would have been able to do if I'd had to fiddle with controls through that heavy plastic waterproof case. But I still had to be there, compose, and take the photo. And I got plenty of lousy OOF, blurred, wrongly exposed photos on film, too.

FF
 
Not only do we spend all that time on the computer " editing " and " enhancing " our photos, but then we spend more time on DP discussing why we did what we did, and why we are, or are not happy with the results. Like Nike says : JUST DO IT !
--
Guillermo
 
KALEL33 said:
SteveH said:
what exactly do you mean?
Click to expand...
Coming from Switzerland you might not get the American slang. He's
saying he agrees with you very emphatically.
Click to expand...
and I agree, we should be out taking pictures rather than sitting in front of a computer. On the other hand, it was great to upload some images for printing to a lab on Wednesday lunchtime and have them arrive in the mail first thing this morning (Thursday) giving me even more time to sit in front of the keyboard... oh, no, wait a minute... DOH!

Joe

--
Nil Illegitimus Carborundum
 
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