Sorry. Sigma DP1 - Ouch!

I own and have used the Canon G9 extensively prior to getting the DP-1. I am selling it back to BHphoto. There is no comparison beween the printed results of the two. I print on an epson 4800 at 16x22". The Dp-1 and the Sd14 print very nicley. The IQ of the G9 is NOWHERE NEAR. Neither is it as sharp, crisp, colorful, etc as my. little DP-1. If IQ doesn't matter, you can buy 2G9's for the price of one DP-1. Loving my DP-1, M Pfau http://www.pbase.com/mdavidp
 
It's best you get rid of it and continue to wonder why so many other
people like it, I guess.
If I spent 1100 bucks on the camera in the UK, I'd convince myself it was a briiliant camera, and I'd tell everyone, and I'd defend it.... but then the wife would also have something to say about spending that prestige amount on a very average product too ;-) be afraid...be very afraid... LOL... Gregs a brave man!
 
I feell that those after a compact general purpose camera ought to
get an A650IS / G9 or F30 / F50FD or the likes .............
I also feel that those who want to dip their toe into the Foveon Pool
should really be looking at buying a cheap used SD9 or SD10 (or a 14
if cheap enough) and a cheap older AF prime like the 24mm F2.8
Superwide-II / 28mm Miniwide, maybe the cheap 18-50 / 55-200 DC
pairing and best of all finally , an adapter and some very cheap very
sharp M42s..
I Feel that the DP1 is for those who wanted the Polaroid X530, would
have bought an M8 if it was cheap enough, an RD1 if it was cheap and
available and are at home with unconventional quirky cameras and
RAW..
I can pretty much agree with all that
it's not a GRD Clone - the GRD is basically a compact tiny
sensor P&S wrapped up in mag alloy, rubber and a LOT of hype but
basically a more a Crippled S80 type cam...
That's where I think you've veered off a bit. One thing you have to take into account with the GRD is how small it is. The Canon cameras that are similar in size to the GRD are the SD series. Now lets compare the GRD to Canon's wide angle offering in that size class, the SD870 IS. The GRD sensor is 1/1.75", SD870 is 1/2.5". GRD lens is f/2.4 (despite the significantly larger sensor), sharp across the frame, and has virtually no distortion. The SD870 lens has corner/edge softness and barrel distortion on the wide end. Even if one looks into less compact (A650/G9/S80 size) cameras, there are none with a wide lens (28mm or wider) that is distortion free, as fast as the GRD, and sharp across the frame. There is a significant gain that comes with acceptance of a fixed focal length lens in the GRD. There are also other niceties like the RAW buffer, build, controls, etc.

--
-Amin
http://www.seriouscompacts.com
 
I just got a G9 as a companion to my DP1 for travel to Europe. (I didn't want to heft my 5D as I'm also taking a full kit for plein air painting on the same trip. - I know I'm crazy - ;-) ) So I've been learning both cameras at the same time. There is not doubt that the G9 is easier to use. And that it can do things the DP1 can't easily do. But sadly the comparison stops there. I have gotten some decent shots with the G9 and it's still riding along on my trip but I much prefer the results I get with the DP1. Yes, it is kind of slow and the screen is a bit hard to use (for me with my aging eyes) but if I had to take just one of the cameras it would be the DP1. I just prefer the images I get. I love the detail, the crispness, the sharpness and the color. The G9 color is a bit too garish relative to the DP1. It's an excellent camera but the DP1 takes pictures more to my liking that better fit what I want to do. I'll be using my G9 for snapshots, macros and tele shots but the big (little) gun will be the DP1.
--
Ann Chaikin
Painting & Photography:
http://www.annchaikin.com
http://www.pbase.com/ptkitty/galleries
Family Website:
http://www.achaikin.com
 
It's best you get rid of it and continue to wonder why so many other
people like it, I guess.
No. It's probably "best" that he gets rid of it and not think at all about other people's attitudes toward it. No matter how well it might suit other people, it did not suit him, and apparently not just by a little bit.

If he really is interested in producing art, and if he's unhappy with the feel of the brush in his hand, why should he not just find a brush that feels good to him so that he enjoys the process as well as the product regardless of how many other people are using that particular brush style? While his pursuit of a brush that feels perfect in his hands may be in vain, why should he care at all why so many other people like the one that he does not?

Oh sure. Perhaps it annoys you that he vented his frustration for any of a number of legitimate reasons (e.g., perhaps his misplaced expectations about the camera). But, how does a condescending parting shot enhance the discussion?

Ray
 
It wasn't my intention to bash you Greg, you know I do not do that
from past history. I just thought your post, for those who don't
know you, might be a bit misleading or have a negative impact on
their interest in the DP1.
The DP1 afficionados wax prosaic in their evaluations of the camera based solely on image quality. Potential image quality isn't the only thing one buys a camera for. Basic functionality is important to any fair cross section of potential users, and only a minority of folks will suffer an expensive camera with excellent potential image quality in a slow, primitive, and expensive compact camera package. Other folks tout the inherent quality of film view cameras with the same call to ignore the incovenience, enforced slowness, and price. That's fine for a select group of users. It's not for many interested bystanders.

I think Greg's comments are on the mark for the many folks who were very interested in the DP1 but who'd rather use a compact DSLR given the DP1's reality. Yes, Greg could have just steered clear of the DP1 based on the downside buzz, but I appreciate that he gave it a try presumably with the hope that might not be so bad to live with. Greg's remarks may help others make a purchase with their eyes open and expectations better calibrated.

--
BJN
 
It wasn't my intention to bash you Greg, you know I do not do that
from past history. I just thought your post, for those who don't
know you, might be a bit misleading or have a negative impact on
their interest in the DP1.
Notice that it's his girl friend who didn't like it... no ideal of what she seeks in a camera, but thus I assume it's not image quality as a primary quality...
The DP1 afficionados wax prosaic in their evaluations of the camera
based solely on image quality. Potential image quality isn't the only
thing one buys a camera for. Basic functionality is important to any
fair cross section of potential users, and only a minority of folks
will suffer an expensive camera with excellent potential image
quality in a slow, primitive, and expensive compact camera package.
I don't find it 'slow, primitive' true it's more (US$799 than other cameras), but it has some unique qualities. The photos are really, really good. I buy a camera for the photos. Plus the DP1 is really small and light, lighter than any lens I own. It's like an excellent prime... that's a camera... that fits in my purse. And did I say that the photos are excellent?

Each person will evaluate whether the DP1 suits their likes and style. But IMHO sometimes it takes more than a day of usage to figure this out.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann
 
It wasn't my intention to bash you Greg, you know I do not do that
from past history. I just thought your post, for those who don't
know you, might be a bit misleading or have a negative impact on
their interest in the DP1.
Notice that it's his girl friend who didn't like it... no ideal of
what she seeks in a camera, but thus I assume it's not image quality
as a primary quality...
The DP1 afficionados wax prosaic in their evaluations of the camera
based solely on image quality. Potential image quality isn't the only
thing one buys a camera for. Basic functionality is important to any
fair cross section of potential users, and only a minority of folks
will suffer an expensive camera with excellent potential image
quality in a slow, primitive, and expensive compact camera package.
I don't find it 'slow, primitive' true it's more (US$799 than other
cameras), but it has some unique qualities. The photos are really,
really good. I buy a camera for the photos. Plus the DP1 is really
small and light, lighter than any lens I own. It's like an excellent
prime... that's a camera... that fits in my purse. And did I say that
the photos are excellent?

Each person will evaluate whether the DP1 suits their likes and
style. But IMHO sometimes it takes more than a day of usage to figure
this out.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann
Well, bully for you that the DP1 is your photographic cup of tea. It still does not diminish the OP opinions or impressions (which I also share), of the DP1's shortcomings.

I had a chance to use the DP1 for about a week from one of my clients who was selling it because he thought it was too slow, and didn't want to have to buy the optional viewfinder for another $150-200. I got some great shots from it (probably the best of any compact I've used), but after the novelty of it's size and uniqueness wore off, I just couldn't justify the $1,000 (including purchasing the viewfinder and hood) it would have cost me to buy it from him. I hated having to hold the camera away from me to frame the shot (again, I didn't have the optional viewfinder). He, like the OP ended up putting it on eBay, where he was able to basically get his money back. I suspect that you are going to be seeing quite a few DP1's on eBay in the next few months, and that their price will drop to around $500-600 by late summer. I also expect to see a much improved DP2 by the fall (probably at Photokina) for the same or less then the DP1 is selling for right now.

Maybe then, I will take a second look at what I still think is a promising compact digital camera. Right now, it just isn't worth the money..for me.
 
. . . I really did find Greg's comments informative. I do not have to agree with Greg's world view to get value out of his comments -- and given the way he expressed his disappointment, I do not really need to have as much background information about Greg's purchasing habits to be able to get some insight into the idiosyncratic nature of some of expressed frustration with the camera.

I have been weighing out picking up this camera to compliment those that I currently own. Like you, I don't mind strapping a camera to my body as a constant companion. Sure, size is a factor in considering the a DP-1 or any other camera as a constant companion, but reading Greg's comments are certainly enough to make me reconsider the DP-1 and say "maybe not so much to me" and maybe I'd rather consider going in a totally different direction (e.g., and only as an example, an E-420 as a constant companion -- but then I come from the perspective of someone who must stoop when walking down the aisles of many of the planes which the airlines have returned to service).

I think Greg -- anyone -- is entitled to desire and pursue a certain personal comfort level with the tools with which one engages in one's endeavors, even if the search for that "perfect" tool may be in vain (I know golfers and fishermen that have been doing it for years). I have held cameras that produced great photos in the hands of others, but knew the second that they were in my hands that I would not enjoy using them.

C'mon -- I know you know that. In fact, I wonder how many times that image alone can ever be said to be the sole driving force, rather than (for example and only for example) how conspicuous the camera is or how much it bothers a person to carry it, how responsive the camera is to our particular photographic interests. We all weigh out subjective factors against this mantra of image as the ideal.

Like Greg, I can afford to pay in advance for the learning experience. For the most part, however, I prefer not to do so. So, I do not mind letting Greg do some of the learning for me or his sharing his subjective experience with me.

Ray
 
I couldn't live with the IQ of a G9. And I really like the G9....

But to each their own. Good luck Greg.
 
It's best you get rid of it and continue to wonder why so many other
people like it, I guess.
If I spent 1100 bucks on the camera in the UK, I'd convince myself it
was a briiliant camera, and I'd tell everyone, and I'd defend it....
Why? That sounds rather foolish.

I'd try it out for a week or so. If I didn't like it at all, I'd return it for a full refund. Especially something like a camera, where it takes some time to get used to. If I don't like something that costs a lot of money, then I don't keep it. But equally I take the time to make sure that something expensive will or will not work for me.

Frankly I'm pretty sure he's a troll. If he'd really had the camera for moments, why would he not simply return it for a full refund instead of "putting it on eBay"? It doesn't add up. Well, I guess it could add up - he could be just as foolish in dismissing the camera as he is in putting a returnable item up on eBay. But personally I think you're being played into your usual support role - like a fiddle.

--
---> Kendall
http://InsideAperture.com
http://www.pbase.com/kgelner
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/user_home
 
The DP1 afficionados wax prosaic in their evaluations of the camera
based solely on image quality. Potential image quality isn't the only
thing one buys a camera for.
Just because we like to offset the endless discussions saying "the LCD is poor", or "the contrast AF is not as fast as my DSLR".

It's hardly "a splash of cold water". It's more like "Same Ol', Same Ol'". Only in a record timeframe that seems unrealistically dismissive.

I didn't like the Nikon DSLR interface the first few minutes I tried it either. But eventually I was able to learn how it worked and respect that, not just dismiss the whole camera line (even though it's not a system I own)...

Tell you what. You go post in the Oly forum that you just tried the E3 for a few minutes and were sending it back, see what luck you have with reasoned responses.

--
---> Kendall
http://InsideAperture.com
http://www.pbase.com/kgelner
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/user_home
 
I think these discussions are very good. If some customer information is transferred to the manufacturers ... even better. It's important also to realize, as stated earlier in this thread, that the DP1 needs to be successful if there is to be a DP2, or whatever designation potential competitors would use.

The main thing is that great film, or sensor, coupled with a great lens allows the possibility of great images. That was true in 1970 when after saving for a year I purchased a Nikon F and the sharpest lens I could afford, f2 50mm, it's still true.

When I decided to go digital, and after searching fruitlessly for a year for a small camera with a large sensor, the decision was a Nikon D80. The sensor is first rate and I have several outstanding lenses. Would I like to have the additional features of a D2x? Sure! Do I need them? Nope. I also reasoned that the thousands I saved would go towards the D80's replacement with the better sensor, and the replacement after that.

The exact same reasoning holds with the DP1. The sensor is first rate and the lens is just wonderful. Funny how it's the same situation as almost 40 years ago. Quality lens and quality film (sensor) is STILL exactly what a photographer needs.

Would I like to have the DP1 less menu driven? Yup. Would I like it to be faster between shots? Oh yes indeed. Do I need this? Nope.

My blog has some images from my month and a half with this camera. I still haven't quite figured out how to post images on this discussion board.
--
http://dp1meanderings.blogspot.com/
http://bluespix.net
 
After only a few minutes I found myself dissapointed in what should
have been a much better performing camera.
A new record in the game of "Leap To Conclusions".

I can't believe anyone would give up a camera after a few minutes...

It's best you get rid of it and continue to wonder why so many other
people like it, I guess.
Greg - I didn't mean for this to be quite as flippant as it ended up being, and I apologize if you felt slighted at all (at one point below I mistakenly called you a troll not recognizing your name).

One thing that puzzles me though, why not just return the camera? Why put it up on eBay, or sell it by other means when you've had it for such a short time?

I still think you should give it at least a day to really see if you want to give it up.

--
---> Kendall
http://InsideAperture.com
http://www.pbase.com/kgelner
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/user_home
 

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