TEST: Sanyo NiMH eneloop VS Sanyo NiMH 2500

[TWiCS]

There has been a lot of chatter across all forums regarding the new Sanyo eneloop NiMH rechargeable AA cells. I have found most of it to be quite interesting. The forum search tool seems to be pretty reliable lately so I have been able to follow several of the discussions.

The eneloop is said to hold a higher charge a lot longer than “regular” NiMH cells which if true would alone make them well worth the price. Much of the chatter has suggested that they also seem to recharge any given flash quicker, now that’s a deal maker!

Well…… after digesting all of the posts I went out and bought a set so I could evaluate them myself by testing them in two different flashguns against my near new Sanyo NiMH 2500’s. So here goes with the “Rube Goldberg’s” mother of battery tests:

At first glance I became very skeptical with the notion that the eneloop could beat the recycle time of the 2500’s beacause the eneloop is only rated at 2000mAh VS 2500 for the regular Sanyo……Hmmmm…..The eneloop holds 20% less power than the old Sanyo’s (or 25% more for the 2500’s).

Sanyo claims the 20% weaker eneloop still has 90% of its charge after 6 months and “regular” NiMH’s drain down to 75%..........(another) Hmmmm 75% after 6 months for the “regulars” which started out with 25% more power! 75% + 25% = 100%. Using my seat of the pants logic I am getting more skeptical all the time. But my curiosity always prevails over my sensibility so off I went to find the eneloop. Costco Canada sells 6 AA and 2 AAA’s for $19.98 and they were the best deal I could find.

The flashguns? One Oly FL-36 and one SLS-015S slave, both take two AA’s.

The test? Simply how many flashes can be popped off manually in 180 seconds after initial load, off camera with room temp freshly charged batteries? I cycled each for 3 minutes twice each and averaged the results.

Sanyo NiMH 2500:
FL-36 – 5.45 seconds per flash cycle
SLS-015S – 8.57 seconds per flash cycle

Sanyo eneloop:
FL-36 – 4.61 seconds per flash cycle
SLS-015S – 8.18 seconds per flash cycle

The results seem to suggest that comparing mAh may be a waste of time, although I have yet to test “cycle to complete discharge”. In the FL-36 the eneloops averaged .84 seconds faster recycle than the 2500’s, at this rate of 4.61 seconds the two cell FL-36 can rival some 4 cell units. In the SLS-015S the eneloops made little diffence and are only.39 seconds faster than the sluggish 8.57 seconds for the 2500’s.

If the shelf discharge claim is correct then the eneloops could be in fact significantly better than ‘old school”. To test the storage claim I’ll put a few away for a month and run the test again.

Comments and suggestions are welcome please.



--
TWiCS
FZ50, TZ3, and lots of old useless darkroom junk.

 

[Charandane]

Sounds like a reasonable test. I'll be curious to see what your findings are in a month.

BTW, I've been using Eneloops for more than a year in my flashes and some P&S cameras with what I consider excellent results.

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[Rossuziers]

Well, since I have a couple dozen 'old schools' ranging from 1850-2200 MaH, from varying brands that once powered my C2100 & e100rs & now will be used in my FL50... As they die off, they'll be replaced with the Enloops.... Although should external flash take a more prominent role in my shooting (doubtful) I've toyed with the idea of rechargeable lith-ion CVr3, if they'll fit in the FL50.
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[sharkync]

I've been using Eneloops for quite some time now, and I can tell you they hold their charge "indefinitely." They are by far the best rechargeable batteries I have ever used.
--



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[TWiCS]

Sounds like a reasonable test. I'll be curious to see what your
findings are in a month.

I was pleasantly surprised with the initial results. If they hold a charge as reported and claimed I'll be very happy.

BTW, I've been using Eneloops for more than a year in my flashes and
some P&S cameras with what I consider excellent results.

I was not aware that they have been available for more than a year; they showed up on the west coast scene only in the last few months.

I am still skeptical about "total" charge so I am doing a capacity test right now.

Thank you for your comment on the battery, I believe such evaluations are quite valuable to forum members.

--
TWiCS
FZ50, TZ3, and lots of old useless darkroom junk.

 

[skyglider]

I bought AA Eneloops for my FL50 flash and bought some extra AA and AAA's at the same time.

I received the eneloops but did not receive my charger yet when I had to work on our car all day. I put two AA eneloops in my small maglite flashlight and used it all day, mostly under the car. This was turning it on when I needed to see in dark areas, not leaving it on continuously. I sometimes forgot to turn the light off and then in the afternoon, I thought I'd really test the eneloops by deliberately leaving the flashlight on for 7-8 minutes at a time. I believe alkaline AA batteries would have dimmed noticeably by the end of the day with the usage I had but the eneloops did not noticeably dim as far as I could tell. I used that flashlight again a little the following day and the light still seemed fine.

When I received my charger, I charged the eneloops and put them in the flashlight. The light was noticeably brighter than what I remember when I first received the eneloops. I think my experience follows the eneloop discharge pattern of holding voltage until depleted, rather than gradually losing voltage like alkaline batteries do. My FL50 flash works great with the eneloops in the testing that I've done. I plan to stop buying alkalines and use eneloops exclusively so long as the units can work with 1.2 volt cells.

TWICS wrote:
The test? Simply how many flashes can be popped off manually in
180 seconds after initial load, off camera with room temp freshly
charged batteries? I cycled each for 3 minutes twice each and
averaged the results.

TWICS, while I thank you very much for doing your test and sharing your results, you may want to rethink your testing method using your flash. The FZ50 manual has this precaution:

"To prevent overheating and deterioration of the light-emitting section, do not continue full activation more than 10 times in a row. After 10 successive operations, stop firing for a while until the light-emitting section cools down."

Wouldn't want you to damage your flash unit while testing.
Thanks,
Skyglider

 

[Dave Santora]

I have Powerex 2700mAh NiMH and the 2000mAh Eneloops. I have found in my flash guns (Nikon SB800s) the Eneloops take about 1/3 to 1/2 second longer to recharge the flash. This is especially noticeable if I fire off 4 or 5 shots in a row, then the Eneloops fall visibly behind in recharge.

And for clarity, the mAh rating is not what determines how quickly it can discharge into the flash capacitor. The mAh rating determines how much absolute charge the batteries hold. The voltage combined (the batteries are mounted in series, so add the voltage) of all batteries in the flash gun determine how quickly it can pump the capacitor back up for a full flash.

As per definition...

mAh (Milliamp Hour) - A measure of a battery's total capacity. The higher the number (ex. 600 mAh, 1,500 mAh) the more charge a battery can hold and usually, the longer a battery will last under a certain load.
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[Charandane]

I was not aware that they have been available for more than a year;
they showed up on the west coast scene only in the last few months.

I first bought them in November 2006 at the source to use in a Canon A540 I bought my mother for Christmas.

I am still skeptical about "total" charge so I am doing a capacity test right now.

I don't know about total charge but I once let them sit in one of my flashes for a couple of months and got almost as many flashes out of them as I did from a set of freshly charged ones in the other flash.

I now use them exclusively in my Nikon SB800 and SB600 flashes.

Thank you for your comment on the battery, I believe such evaluations
are quite valuable to forum members.

My pleasure. It's great to exchange our experiences on these forums.

--
Best regards,

Andy

FCAS Member/Masters Category
Pbase Supporter

 

[TWiCS]

I have Powerex 2700mAh NiMH and the 2000mAh Eneloops. I have found
in my flash guns (Nikon SB800s) the Eneloops take about 1/3 to 1/2
second longer to recharge the flash. This is especially noticeable
if I fire off 4 or 5 shots in a row, then the Eneloops fall visibly
behind in recharge.

Yes, I expected results similar to those you describe but surprisingly that it isn't the case with my flashes. As the saying goes "your mileage may vary"

And for clarity, the mAh rating is not what determines how quickly it
can discharge into the flash capacitor. The mAh rating determines
how much absolute charge the batteries hold. The voltage combined
(the batteries are mounted in series, so add the voltage) of all
batteries in the flash gun determine how quickly it can pump the
capacitor back up for a full flash.

Yes you get the point for sure, Exactly the point I meant when stating "The results seem to suggest that comparing mAh may be a waste of time, although I have yet to test “cycle to complete discharge”...... And so I expect the eneloop to discharge sooner than the 2500's..........but they have already surprised me once so we shall see.

Thanks for taking the time to add your experience to the discussion.

--
TWiCS
FZ50, TZ3, and lots of old useless darkroom junk.

 

[TWiCS]

Well, since I have a couple dozen 'old schools' ranging from
1850-2200 MaH, from varying brands that once powered my C2100 &
e100rs & now will be used in my FL50... As they die off, they'll be
replaced with the Enloops.... Although should external flash take a
more prominent role in my shooting (doubtful) I've toyed with the
idea of rechargeable lith-ion CVr3, if they'll fit in the FL50.

Seems to be pretty consistent throughout the forums, most are impressed with the eneloop. A caution for you with the CRV3 Lion rechargeable, they will fit in the FL50 but the flash will not charge, this has been reported by many past posters. CRV3 lithium (disposable) are reported to work wonderfully.

Thank you for taking the time to share your comments.
--
TWiCS
FZ50, TZ3, and lots of old useless darkroom junk.

 

[Fredrick28933]

Thank you for taking the time to do these tests. I wonder however, whether one month allows sufficient time to truly test the uniqueness of the Eneloops. I think that their greatest strength lies in being able to sit unused for long periods of time with minimal self-discharge. If one uses and recharges their batteries fairly frequently, then perhaps that advantage begins to disappear. Just my .02c

 

[TWiCS]

I've been using Eneloops for quite some time now, and I can tell you
they hold their charge "indefinitely." They are by far the best
rechargeable batteries I have ever used.

The thing I hate the most about the Ni-MH is the "Dead-Zone" of charge age that always occurs at the worst time. Your comments and those of others help confirm the eneloop as the solution.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Most of the cameras purchase decisions I have made came from browsing posts like this, in fact it was a similar post that led me to these great little batteries.
--
TWiCS
FZ50, TZ3, and lots of old useless darkroom junk.

 

[TWiCS]

Hey skyglider, thanks for your interesting comments. Especially this one!

"To prevent overheating and deterioration of the light-emitting
section, do not continue full activation more than 10 times in a row.
After 10 successive operations, stop firing for a while until the
light-emitting section cools down."

Wouldn't want you to damage your flash unit while testing.

I whipped out my user guide as soon as I read this. My manual says the same thing! That puts the kibosh on using the FL36 for any more of these antics.
I'll focus my testing on the cheapo slave for the future.

Thanks again for the heads up.
--
TWiCS
FZ50, TZ3, and lots of old useless darkroom junk.

 

[Rossuziers]

Well, since I have a couple dozen 'old schools' ranging from
1850-2200 MaH, from varying brands that once powered my C2100 &
e100rs & now will be used in my FL50... As they die off, they'll be
replaced with the Enloops.... Although should external flash take a
more prominent role in my shooting (doubtful) I've toyed with the
idea of rechargeable lith-ion CVr3, if they'll fit in the FL50.

Seems to be pretty consistent throughout the forums, most are
impressed with the eneloop. A caution for you with the CRV3 Lion
rechargeable, they will fit in the FL50 but the flash will not
charge, this has been reported by many past posters.

Hmmmm. how'd I miss those posts? Thanks for the heads-up

CRV3 lithium
(disposable) are reported to work wonderfully.

Thank you for taking the time to share your comments.
--
TWiCS
FZ50, TZ3, and lots of old useless darkroom junk.

--

The Amateur Formerly Known as 'UZ'pShoot'ERS' 'Happy Shootin' Comments, Critique, Ridicule, Limericks, Jokes, Hi-jackings, EnthUZIastically, Encouraged... I Insist!



* [email protected] * http://www.pbase.com/rrawzz *

 

[TWiCS]

Thank you for taking the time to do these tests. I wonder however,
whether one month allows sufficient time to truly test the uniqueness
of the Eneloops. I think that their greatest strength lies in being
able to sit unused for long periods of time with minimal
self-discharge. If one uses and recharges their batteries fairly
frequently, then perhaps that advantage begins to disappear.

I agree with your point, holding a charge until you need it is the most important factor. I find the regular 2500's to be mostly weak after time but are never sure when the last time a set is charged, they don't come with a calendar. The eneloops at $19.98 a set are cheap enough for me to buy another and settle my curiosity on charge retention. So, 6 more AA's will send the test to 4 months if I test a set a month.

Just my .02c

Your comments are priceless, thanks for posting.

--
TWiCS
FZ50, TZ3, and lots of old useless darkroom junk.

 

[NewsyL]

That is some very good info on recycle times.

As to the storage drain, there has been some very good feedback in various forums/threads here.

Here's one from last September:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1023&message=24756026

(Read all the posts by archae86 in that thread)

As good as the Eneloops are, they are only at their best for longevity if you have a quality charger. I suggest you investigate either a Maha MH-C9000 or La Crosse BC-900. Those "fast" chargers that are often bundled with these batteries (ie: 90 minutes full charge) are far from ideal.

http://www.mahaenergy.com/store/viewitem.asp?idproduct=423

http://thomas-distributing.com/la_crosse_bc-900_battery_charger.php

I purchased a BC-900 a few months ago and am very pleased with it.

Also, if you find the Find/Search function of DPreview broken just use Google.

http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&tab=iw

Type in> > site:forums.dpreview.com "forum=1004" your search words

(keep the quotation marks around "forum=1004" to search the "PC Talk" forum or substitute your fave forum number; remove the "forum=1004" to search ALL of the dpreview forums)

--


Newsy FZ20 user
http://newsy.smugmug.com

.

 

[TWiCS]

Hi NewsyL

That is some very good info on recycle times.

As to the storage drain, there has been some very good feedback in
various forums/threads here.

Yes, they got me thinking for sure.

As good as the Eneloops are, they are only at their best for
longevity if you have a quality charger. I suggest you investigate
either a Maha MH-C9000 or La Crosse BC-900. Those "fast" chargers
that are often bundled with these batteries (ie: 90 minutes full
charge) are far from ideal.

I am using the one made and recommended by Sanyo for these batteries, I wonder if the others are really better. They certainly cost more.

http://www.mahaenergy.com/store/viewitem.asp?idproduct=423

http://thomas-distributing.com/la_crosse_bc-900_battery_charger.php

I purchased a BC-900 a few months ago and am very pleased with it.

Thanks for the links. Some are pretty impressive looking units.

Thank you for taking the time to post. I intend to spend some more time assessing the OEM charger VS the others.
--
TWiCS
FZ50, TZ3, and lots of old useless darkroom junk.

 

[gene thomson]

The Kodak 2100ma Ultra Low Discharge AA's are supposed to be identical to the Eneloops. I have had some sitting, charged but unused, for over 3 months without any sign of discharge.
--
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effzee 1, 5 and 30
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[gene thomson]

Forgot to add that I just use a regular Eveready AA NIMH charger for them.
--
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effzee 1, 5 and 30
http://genet.smugmug.com/

 

[Fredrick28933]

The Kodak 2100ma Ultra Low Discharge AA's are supposed to be
identical to the Eneloops. I have had some sitting, charged but
unused, for over 3 months without any sign of discharge.

I am wondering how you know there are no signs of dischage.