Alien Bee.. or Nikon SB-800?

[GothtinPowers]

So I am buying a DSLR soon, likely a D40X or D80, and wanted to also get some simple studio equipment. Initially I was going to get the Beginner Bee kit (Stand, strobe, umbrella) and add a second stand with reflector.

Then I got to thinking.. should I instead get the same setup, but instead of an Alien Bee strobe, get a SB-800/600 giving me the ability to use strobe/reflector outdoors and on location? It would cost $100 more.
This leads to a couple of questions:
1) how would the light output of an SB-600/800 compare to an Alien B800?

2) Is there a way to mount a nikon flash to an Alien Bees stand/umbrella so that if I did get a Strobe later I would already have the stand?
3) Is there something I'm missing here?

PS I realize that the D40X has no wireless commander to trip a Nikon Flash with.. if I did go the D40X route, is there another method.. such as wires from hotshoe to flash unit? or some sort of flash sensor? If I have to buy the wireless commander I had might as well get the D80.

Thanks!!!

 

[GothtinPowers]

I found an article which claims the SB-800 is 1/2 way between the AB B400 and B800, so that seems to answer that question.

PS I should add, the reason I'm considering the D40X is I think I would like the smaller size when doing architectural and other street photography, especially in situations where I may want to keep the camera under my coat between shots.

 

[Allen Greenky]

So I am buying a DSLR soon, likely a D40X or D80,

I'm not familiar with consumer cameras, well, I only know my own kodak and not all that well, BUT, I hear a lot of whining from d40 folks, can't do this, can't use that, do you have any friends with nikon lenses? guess what, you probably can't use them. Some girl I know is a proud owner but when I tried my lens, no go.

and wanted to also

get some simple studio equipment. Initially I was going to get the
Beginner Bee kit (Stand, strobe, umbrella) and add a second stand
with reflector.
Then I got to thinking.. should I instead get the same setup, but
instead of an Alien Bee strobe, get a SB-800/600 giving me the
ability to use strobe/reflector outdoors and on location? It would
cost $100 more.

You will want a good flash to use anyway, so this would be the place to start.

This leads to a couple of questions:
1) how would the light output of an SB-600/800 compare to an Alien B800?

flash works with the camera like skynet

2) Is there a way to mount a nikon flash to an Alien Bees
stand/umbrella so that if I did get a Strobe later I would already
have the stand?

stands are stands, just need a mounting shoe adapter

3) Is there something I'm missing here?

umbrellas are 70's monolights are 80's 90's, commander slave flash is the 00s If you want a softbox, try bouncing the flash head off a sidewall, it actually works well, if you want a modeling light, use a cliplight or a video light.

PS I realize that the D40X has no wireless commander to trip a Nikon
Flash with.. if I did go the D40X route, is there another method..

I'm not sure but I believe the 800 will commander another 600 or 800, I might recomend a second 800 because the 600 like only 2/3rd the power of the 800, but the 600 can't commander the 800 from the camera even though that would make more sense powerwise

--

moderator of the z-prophoto for professional portrait/wedding photogs and the photohistory list for academic research, mailing lists hosted at yahoogroups.com

 

[GothtinPowers]

Thanks for the info, there are definitely disadvantages with the D40/D40x, one being the lack of AF with old lenses. I've decided that I don't mind having to manually focus a nice portrait lense, however I'm still going to add up the dollar and annoyance expenses that will be needed to 'make up' for the faults of the D40X and see if it's worth it in the end. And you're right I"m probably going to want a hotshoe mounted flash regardless of what I do, so that SB-800 can take the place of both that, and of a studio strobe.

 

[Allen Greenky]

She tried the lens on and it fit (an 80=200mm 2.8 zoom) but she couldn't release the shutter.

--

moderator of the z-prophoto for professional portrait/wedding photogs and the photohistory list for academic research, mailing lists hosted at yahoogroups.com

 

[GothtinPowers]

Hmm bizarre. I'm not that familiar with Nikons (yet), but is it possible she was in a shooting mode where the shutter wouldn't release unless there was focus confirmation, and since a non-AF-S lense wouldn't auto focus there was no release?
(totally guessing here).

 

[eggburt]

Spend more, get more. Go with what is current and hot. Get the D300 and several SB-800's. The 600's are not enough power sometimes and the 800's are not that much more. That is a great way to do flash photography.

http://www.juliagreerphotography.com/sb-800-article.htm

--

Nikon D300 is the best camera in the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
N i k o n D 3 0 0, D 2 0 0, F u j i S 5, 8 - S b - 8 0 0' s

N i k k o r P r i m e s 1 0 . 5 m m, 2 4 m m , 2 8 m m, 3 5 m m , 5 0 m m 1 . 4, 6 0 m m M a c r o, 8 5 m m 1 . 4

N i k k o r Z o o m s 1 8 - 2 0 0 V R, 2 4 - 8 5 E D, 7 0 -2 0 0 V R, 8 0 - 4 0 0 V R

 

[GothtinPowers]

I'll definitely be getting the SB-800 vs the SB-600, but the D300 body is not much less than my entire budget!..sadly. Make you a deal, any money I make with my cheaper setup will go towards the purchase of a D300

 

[aimpic]

Sure, buy the better camera - someone said D300, great camera. The portable flash stuff I don't agree is that good.
Sure, get some if you must, but real studio light is a different class.

Buy your self the "Dean Collins DvD" set on lighting and you will learn something.

I also agree with pay more get more.

Remember though, the equip is only a tool. Many photographers with great equip only make lousy shots.

Put lots of emphasis into you the artist and tech person, remembering that you make the shots.

--
Peter

Persuasive Marketing Systems -
inc Copywriting, Design & Photography

 

[WFulton]

I found an article which claims the SB-800 is 1/2 way between the AB
B400 and B800, so that seems to answer that question.

No, that is extremely incorrect. - sounds like it may have been Julia

When metered from the same umbrella, then:
The B400 is roughly double the power of a SB-800
The B800 is double the power of a B400.

I could go into detail about the numbers of that, but seems more than enough to simply hold one in each hand and look at them.

PS I should add, the reason I'm considering the D40X is I think I
would like the smaller size when doing architectural and other street
photography, especially in situations where I may want to keep the
camera under my coat between shots.

Applied to these lights, sounds like it is trying to compare apples and elephants.

The AB is a AC powered monolight suitable for fixed situations - like studio work. It readily accepts all kinds of light modifiers.

The SB is a battery powered camera mounted flash for walk around situations and runs on AA batteries.

Both are high quality and ideally suited for their job, but their jobs are very different.

 

[Jonathan Wolf]

Don't forget that a studio strobe (AC or Battery powered) is made to fire off rapidly and dissipate the heat.

The SB600/800's can't cool down the same, as the manual suggests. If you search the forums here, at Nikonians and on the web otherwise you'll read about how people burn out their nice expensive flash. There are ways to handle it (lower power use when going rapid-fire,etc) but its quite a $ risk.

Each has its application. If you're looking for a hotshoe flash with studio strobe power, response & capabilities, you're probably better off looking at the Quantum flashes. They're higher power, have some unique modifiers & power packs, can handle the repetitive use more gracefully and have modules to allow Nikon iTTL/Canon eTTL/etc. I think thats more the wedding photographer's choice for hotshoe flashes.

 

[Suntan]

This is my background from the last couple of years. I have the D70, which I mostly use for outdoors sports/nature/landscape. I bought an SB600 for on camera, bounce into the ceiling, flash photography at Christmas time, etc. Even now I still use it on camera bounced into the ceiling or wall for these situations (or even if the parents are up to visit their grandson) because I am not going to plop open a separate light stand in the livingroom while we are sitting around.

I got a cheap 30” flash umbrella and adapter for Christmas one year (because few things in this hobby fit onto a Christmas list). And I started playing around with off camera flash into an umbrella using the D70’s commander to flash the SB600. This has worked well enough to get monthly portraits of our son. Do I wish I had gotten the SB800 at the time instead of the SB600? Yes and no. I wish I had the SB800 today, but I didn’t have the budget for it back then and the SB600 is a good flash in its own right. If I had had the budget for the SB800 to begin with, I wouldn’t have gotten the SB600 “just to save a hundred bucks”.

Recently I decided to add another light, and the choice was between an SB800 and a monolight. The SB800 would be a nice upgrade over the SB600 for all the times I will use a bounce flash on camera, and I could still use CLS. However, I chose to get an AB400. Mostly for the added power, not having to deal with all the batteries, and if I add additional lights in the future, I can transition to a fully AC system.

Don’t let the elitist attitude that hot shoe flashes are junk sway you, they work very well for what they do. Even now, I would get an SB hotshoe flash for my first flash before a monolight as they are much more convenient for the times you want flash, but don’t want to setup the whole studio thing. Also, they can work very well off camera bounced into a modifier. Not as well as a monolight, but they hold their own if you are just looking to experiment with a lighting setup.

Lastly, imo CLS and on camera Commander is a nice feature to have, but it is not a must have. I certainly wouldn’t increase my camera budget significantly just for that feature.

-Suntan

 

[Richard Katris]

so why you need a new camera? Perhaps a D200 or even used D70 might do? Both took pretty good pictures when they came out...and I will bet they would still work too....both also AF w/ older lenses...though the D200 and D80 better than the D70....
--
Richard Katris aka Chanan

 

[WMann]

To save myself some typing, most of your lighting quesiotns are answered in some detail at http://www.strobist.com -- click on the Lighting 101 section and work from there.

I suggest you start with a Nikon flash, plus a stand and umbrella. All these can serve you well for many years, and you can build on them as you progress in photography. Buy a stand heavy enough to handle an AB if you plan to go that way in the future. Add a second stand and a reflector and you can do a lot of work, then a second light and so on.

I am not a Nikon expert, but I would go for the D80 and SB800 if your budget will bear it. I suspect with the D40 or the 600 you will be wanting to upgrade very soon.

--
W.Mann

NSFW -- Figure photography
by Weston Mann
at Silver Mirage:
http://www.silvermirage.com

 

[GothtinPowers]

Thanks for the extra info.

I don't foresee doing rapid fire flash, most studio work will likely be still life/posed.
I am concerned about the low power compared to studio strobe though.

 

[GothtinPowers]

I suspect you're right.

I'm going to wait and see what PMA brings from Nikon, not because I want to wait for whatever new products come out, but I would like to wait for possible price drops of current offerings.

 

[GothtinPowers]

You're right I don't need a new camera, I'm going to wait till the Nikon PMA announcements and then hit up the local camera store to see what kinds of discounts I can get on current or recently discontinued models.

so why you need a new camera? Perhaps a D200 or even used D70 might
do? Both took pretty good pictures when they came out...and I will
bet they would still work too....both also AF w/ older
lenses...though the D200 and D80 better than the D70....
--
Richard Katris aka Chanan

 

[TheKO]

I own three SB-800's , two AB 800's and one AB-600 four stands, 3 umbrella's, snoot, Barndoor and grid and jels for both systems (the SB's come with gels).

The Nikon CLS system is good if you know how to use it - it did take me some time but I am not a rocket scientist. To me the menu on the SB-800 can at times be a bit confusing. If you use the system all of the time, it probably would be more intuitive. These lights can go thru some batteries on a shoot. The lights come with a floor stand that have the common screw hole in the bottom so you can use to mount on a light stand.

The AB' s are superb. If you know how to set the camera up for flash you could shoot dead on shots almost first time out. I do use a Sekonic flash for all of my shots. They do take up space to store if you are not keeping them set up.

Setting up the lights either AB's or SB's are never a consideration as they are both about the same effort. The SB's stands allow me to set them where I want and then turn and aim the head if required.

I am using my AB's more and more. I guess when I am doing a model shoot there is more of a "cool" factor!

The big difference is where I am shooting. If I am shooting in a studio - I definitly opt for the AB's. If I am in the woods (or a wedding) I opt for the SB's as they are much more portable and convienent to carry and set up.

I suggest you determine what you are really going to us the lights for, where are they going to be stored and where you are going to use them ( I would think storage may be a problem in a dorm room). This will help define what system to go with. I don't think you will go wrong either way.

BTW - if you can afford the D-200/300 over the D-40 --- do it!
--
TheKO

 

[PhotoArtKC]

Good read on how to use the SB's with "big" modifiers and other accessories.

I suppose what you would want to buy would vary greatly on what sort of shooting you do the most. I like having the wireless portability of SB's and they are compact and easy to move around. I also have a pair of mono lights, one smaller than the other I can use as a background light or suspend on a boom for accent light closer to the subject. Both can be easily swapped for an SB if I want to go portable.

 

[GothtinPowers]

You know to be honest if I'm going to end up spending Around $2000 on cam, lenses, and beginner studio, I may just spend another $250 so I can have an SB-800 AND an alien bees strobe.