ArielNH
Member
Desperation was the only reason for F22! All other combinations gave overexposure, so that was the last and least available on manual. Something odd going on in the electronic gizzards unless I have made a ****-up somehow....
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Flash issues: D50
- Thread starter ArielNH
- Start date
ocrampix
Senior Member
If I followed this last bit correctly, your flash does actually work in manual mode?
The speed wouldn't change anything at this moment, because the actual flash is much faster than 1/500th second.
Have you done different tests at different distances (subject/camera) and at different apertures?
Marco
Kim Letkeman
Forum Pro
Your images are all underexposed, then we find out that at anything but f22 they are overexposed.
Sounds like you are bouncing the settings all over the place and ending up with wildly differing exposures.
I am happy to look at images with EXIF intact. Otherwise, I hope you find your issue. I would recommend that you buy and read Thom Hogan's guide to the D50 ... he discusses the flash system in there enough to get you straightened out.
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http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com
ArielNH
Member
I don't think there is much I can do in Auto to change the settings, but I could be wrong. There is no compensation dialled in, and ISO is set to auto. In manual, the only results without gross over exposure are at the extreme of the range. Thanks for the reference BTW.
ocrampix
Senior Member
There is another test you could do using FV lock.
Go to menu item #14 and select "FV Lock", and in menu item #16 you select "TTL".
In FV Lock mode you will fire the pre-flash by pressing the AE-L/AF-L button, whose value will then be stored in memory until the AE-L/AF-L button is pressed again or the D50 is switched off.
1. Set the D50 to aperture priority "A" and leave the lens completely open (smallest f/-value).
2. Choose a subject and focus on it, and pop up the built-in flash.
3. While focusing on the subject, press the AE-L/AF-L button just once. You should see a flash at that moment. You will also notice a symbol on the left side in the viewfinder that looks like a lighting followed by an "L".
4. Without changing anything (distance camera/subject must remain constant), you take the picture by pressing the shutter-release button. The main flash should fire now.
What does this picture look like?
If you want to repeat the experiment, remember to set a new FV (flash value) should you change the camera/subject distance.
Marco
ArielNH
Member
Actually Marco, 1/500 is the flash sync speed for the D50, so there may be a germ of understanding here if only I could see it! Setting that speed manually indicates that the flash exposure mechanism in othermodes may be upset by something, so I'll have a go at the other settings (S,A, P) where I can influence the shutter speed.
ocrampix
Senior Member
No, not all. The default flash sync speed of the D50 is actually 1/60 s.
The fastest flash sync speed available in the D50 is 1/500 s, but that is used in very special situations.
Don't worry about the shutter speed at this point in time with your faulty(?) flash.
Marco
ArielNH
Member
marco: thanks for your suggestions and patience! The 1/500 canard i got from Thom Hogans test of the D50. Re the method to test the flash: set up as advised. The AEL/AFL button produced nothing, and the shot was underexposed. Think I'll have to return this camera to Nikon UK.
Bob Walters
Senior Member
ocrampix wrote:
........snip........
Depending on the ambient light, the ISO, and the aperture, the camera will select a shutter speed between the lower limit (default 1/60) and the max sync speed, which on the D-50 is 1/500 sec. Because ambient light is often dim, 1/60 is often selected. So often in fact, that people sometimes believe that 1/60 sec is THE default flash shutter speed. It is really only the default MINIMUM.
As for the maximum flash speed, which is normally 1/500 sec on the Nikons with composite mechanical/electronic shutters and 1/200 or 1/250 sec on Nikons with pure mechanical shutters, it is selected by the camera whenever it's appropriate, not only in "very special situations".
Changing the default minimum speed of 1/60 sec can easily be accomplished via a menu option. Or you might elect to select "Slow" sync, which simply allows the photographer to bypass the normal minimum shutter speed with flash.
Bob
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........snip........
......snip........
Actually 1/60 sec is NOT the default flash sync speed. The camera will not normally allow the use of shutter speeds SLOWER than 1/60 sec when it detects a flash present. That is to say, 1/60 sec is the default MINIMUM shutter speed with flash.
Depending on the ambient light, the ISO, and the aperture, the camera will select a shutter speed between the lower limit (default 1/60) and the max sync speed, which on the D-50 is 1/500 sec. Because ambient light is often dim, 1/60 is often selected. So often in fact, that people sometimes believe that 1/60 sec is THE default flash shutter speed. It is really only the default MINIMUM.
As for the maximum flash speed, which is normally 1/500 sec on the Nikons with composite mechanical/electronic shutters and 1/200 or 1/250 sec on Nikons with pure mechanical shutters, it is selected by the camera whenever it's appropriate, not only in "very special situations".
Changing the default minimum speed of 1/60 sec can easily be accomplished via a menu option. Or you might elect to select "Slow" sync, which simply allows the photographer to bypass the normal minimum shutter speed with flash.
Bob
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ArielNH
Member
Bob: re "Changing the default minimum speed of 1/60 sec can easily be accomplished via a menu option." I'm not sure how to do this?
Bob Walters
Senior Member
It's menu item #24 on my D-80. I'm pretty sure the D-40 doesn't have such a menu selection, but I was under the impression the D-50 did. I could be wrong however. A quick check of your manual should reveal all. I was not successful in being able to view a D-50 manual on line. Sorry.
If I'm wrong and the 50 doesn't have the menu option, it's simple enough to select "SLOW" sync to accomplish the same thing.
Do not confuse slow sync with rear curtain sync. They are not related. They're two different things. Plenty of folks confuse or mix the two, perhaps because they're selected via the same button/dial combination.
All slow sync does is allow you to shoot slower than the "Flash Shutter Speed" minimum. Rear, or "second" curtain sync is something entirely different.
Bob
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ocrampix
Senior Member
Well, that proves that there is something wrong with the iTTL circuitry in your D50.
OK, I hope Nikon can repair your camera and you'll soon be enjoying a good D50!
Marco
ocrampix
Senior Member
OK, fair enough, but for the purpose of solving the problem in this thread, it wouldn't have made any difference.
Marco
ArielNH
Member
Not as many options on the d50, Bob
Used Slow sync in Aperture priority: gross overexposure As Marco says, its off to Nikon time. Thanks for all the comments. Like a tutorial really. Very grateful. John.
Used Slow sync in Aperture priority: gross overexposure As Marco says, its off to Nikon time. Thanks for all the comments. Like a tutorial really. Very grateful. John.Bob Walters
Senior Member
ocrampix wrote:
.....snip.......
A quick read here and on other forums shows that a huge number of people understand it WRONG, which is not the same thing as not understanding it at all, if you get my drift.
Perhaps I'm a bit overzealous in trying to set things straight, use the correct terminology, etc. etc. and you're correct in saying that this small point wouldn't matter for this particular discussion. I also admit that it's easy for me to fall into the trap of picking nits, but I try not to do so if possible.
On the other hand, there are plenty of other folks reading these threads and some are trying hard to get their head wrapped around our modern and quite complicated camera/flash gear.
I'm just trying to keep someone from getting a wheel in the ditch.
Cheers
Bob
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.....snip.......
......... this flash stuff is complex enough as it is. I think we can all agree on that point.
A quick read here and on other forums shows that a huge number of people understand it WRONG, which is not the same thing as not understanding it at all, if you get my drift.
Perhaps I'm a bit overzealous in trying to set things straight, use the correct terminology, etc. etc. and you're correct in saying that this small point wouldn't matter for this particular discussion. I also admit that it's easy for me to fall into the trap of picking nits, but I try not to do so if possible.
On the other hand, there are plenty of other folks reading these threads and some are trying hard to get their head wrapped around our modern and quite complicated camera/flash gear.
I'm just trying to keep someone from getting a wheel in the ditch.
Cheers
Bob
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ocrampix
Senior Member
I have no data concerning the flash duration of the built-in flash of the D50, but the flash durations for the SB-800 are all way above 1/500 sec. Therefore I would say that for most intents and purposes setting the speed on the D50 when using an SB-800 should not make any difference:
1/1050 sec. at M1/1 (full) output
1/1100 sec. at M1/2 output
1/2700 sec. at M1/4 output
1/5900 sec. at M1/8 output
1/10900 sec. at M1/16 output
1/17800 sec. at M1/32 output
1/32300 sec. at M1/64 output
1/41600 sec. at M1/128 output
Marco
ocrampix
Senior Member
No such item on the D50. Only in "ISO Auto" menu item #10 can the speed be chosen.
The D50 manual can be found online right here:
http://www.nikonusa.com/pdf/manuals/dslr/D50_en.pdf
Yes, if set to speed "S" priority.
But I fail to see the use of this, because the flash duration is faster than 1/500 s.
It would only be of use if you were really using "SLOW" for a photographic effect.
Marco
Bob Walters
Senior Member
Yes, the flash duration is always shorter than the shutter speed for our dSLRs except in a few special cases, like when you "hack" the sync speed for example with tape on the hot shoe.
But that doesn't mean shutter speed can be ignored with flash photography because quite often ambient light is an important part of the exposure.
The ability to shoot slower than 1/60 sec is valuable when trying to achieve a particular balance between flash and ambient light. In other words, by leaving the flash alone, the contribution of ambient light can be changed without effecting the contribution of the flash by altering the shutter speed.
It is not uncommon to want speeds slower than 1/60 sec., hence the SLOW sync option and/or menu selection for "Flash Shutter Speed".
Bob
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But that doesn't mean shutter speed can be ignored with flash photography because quite often ambient light is an important part of the exposure.
The ability to shoot slower than 1/60 sec is valuable when trying to achieve a particular balance between flash and ambient light. In other words, by leaving the flash alone, the contribution of ambient light can be changed without effecting the contribution of the flash by altering the shutter speed.
It is not uncommon to want speeds slower than 1/60 sec., hence the SLOW sync option and/or menu selection for "Flash Shutter Speed".
Bob
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Telecorder
Senior Member
I've had some low light/black image issues for a while with my D50 and just this afternoon sent it in for repair. I was finally able to ascertain that, in low light, such as an indoor room with only incidental lights on, the image would go all black if the aperture was at f/4 or smaller -- with or without the on-board flash/SB-600 - in all Auto/P/S/A/M modes. This is the same on any of my lenses (35-D F/2; 18-70 DX 3.5 - 5.6 etc). As long as I had an aperture faster than f/4.0, the image was OK - w and w/o the flash.
Try using a lens that offers something faster than f/4.0, use A-Mode and take an image with the aperture at say f/3.5 with/without on-board flash popped up. Then try at f/4.0, f/5.6. It may be the same circuit issue as I'm experiencing - if it is... repair time.
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Telecorder (Dave)
FZee30+RD-S+OlyTC1.7X
Dee50+Nikon 35mm F2.0D-AF+Nikkor18-70DX+Tam70-300-macro-LD+BIGMA 50-500 EX HSM
(Coming soon - Nikon 70-300 VR!)
My Image Galleries --
http://www.nikonians-images.com/galleries/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=121399&password=
http://Telecorder.smugmug.com/
Try using a lens that offers something faster than f/4.0, use A-Mode and take an image with the aperture at say f/3.5 with/without on-board flash popped up. Then try at f/4.0, f/5.6. It may be the same circuit issue as I'm experiencing - if it is... repair time.
--
Telecorder (Dave)
FZee30+RD-S+OlyTC1.7X
Dee50+Nikon 35mm F2.0D-AF+Nikkor18-70DX+Tam70-300-macro-LD+BIGMA 50-500 EX HSM
(Coming soon - Nikon 70-300 VR!)
My Image Galleries --
http://www.nikonians-images.com/galleries/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=121399&password=
http://Telecorder.smugmug.com/
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