A700 at ISO 1600 - my obsevations

IdiotStic

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First, let me remind you that I shoot RAW almost exclusively unless I'll be shooting hundreds of shots at some fast paced event. Ok, lets start with the basics. Getting low noise at high ISO is all about technique and some basic knowledge of your camera. So far, I have had 3 Sony DSLR's, 2 A100's and now an A700. All of them (read that again), underexpose in RAW mode. They also tend to underexpose in jpeg mode, although not by a lot.

Under exposure at high ISO is a tragedy waiting to happen. When you load the file into your favorite editor to do your thing to levels, curves, white balance, etc, by the time you have it brightened up enough, you've introduced lots of noise into the shot. I can't stress how important it is to get the exposure right in the camera BEFORE you take the shot. You do that by learning how your camera operates under different conditions (low light, high ISO, bright daylight, etc). Once you figure out how much your particular camera under exposes (and most do by default), then you can over expose by that amount and have a great exposure straight from the camera.

The A700 allows you to set and exposure bias (exposure compensation) and save it to your 3 user memory setups. It also remembers it for each mode such as M, A, S, and P, each time you go to those. I have tested 3 A700's so far and they all seem to be -1.7 to -2.3 EV under exposed in RAW modes. Mine is right at -2.3, so I have +2.0 dialed into the exposure bias and saved to both of my RAW user profiles. For jpeg mode I use a value of +1.0, and find that works very well.

The other thing you should be aware of is that DRO HATES high ISO. Before you start shooting high ISO in jpeg, turn OFF the DRO feature. It just introduces terrible amounts of noise, especially if you use the advanced settings (3, 4, or 5). So, to review, turn off DRO (in jpeg mode), over expose by the correct amount (or set an exposure compensation), and don't forget about white balance. The bottom line is to know your camera, play with it, make notes, watch how much you have to brighten things, etc. Taking the time to do those things makes it much more enjoyable when you see the results.

Here's some example at ISO 1600
The scene:



cRAW, 1/13 sec, F:8



jpeg WITH DRO-Auto



jpeg with DRO off



--
Jem

 
The other thing you should be aware of is that DRO HATES high ISO.
Before you start shooting high ISO in jpeg, turn OFF the DRO feature.
It just introduces terrible amounts of noise, especially if you use
the advanced settings (3, 4, or 5). So, to review, turn off DRO (in
jpeg mode), over expose by the correct amount (or set an exposure
compensation), and don't forget about white balance. The bottom line
is to know your camera, play with it, make notes, watch how much you
have to brighten things, etc. Taking the time to do those things
makes it much more enjoyable when you see the results.
Very impressive findings on the A700. Have you also tried this on the A100?

Al
 
Yes, the A100 is much the same, although it does not tend to under expose by as much in RAW modes. Since it has no user memories, and I shoot in manual mode 99% of the time, I simply over expose by +1.0 EV at iso 800 and +1.3 EV at ISO 1600. The DRO on the A100 is also not as aggressive, so it is less noisy, but it can still cause a problem at high ISO depending on the scene.

--
Jem

 
So far, I have had
3 Sony DSLR's, 2 A100's and now an A700. All of them (read that
again), underexpose in RAW mode.
Are you saying that when you shoot in RAW mode at high ISO that the shot's histogram that the camera displays will look as if it is exposed well, but then when you download the file to your computer you discover it is underexposed?

--
Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com
 
Thanks for your effort. Although I could test it myself (if I had the time!) would your observations indicate that exposure is correct at ISO100 - 400? Or is the underexposure gradually more pronounced when you increase ISO? So f.ex. when you say you need +2.0 at ISO1600, you would need +1.0 at ISO800?

If this is the case, then it should be possible to fix with a firmware upgrade - and I think Sony should have found out about this ever before releasing the camera!

I don't use the memory registers that much - I tend to turn the knobs in every new situation (if I remember!) - but if this problem is well defined I might use them for just changing ISO and EV all together...
 
adding +2 to my shots would blow them out..
I could understand +.5 but not 2..
 
No, the histogram appears to be very accurate. That was my initial fear, and would have meant that some type of processing of the jpeg preview was happening, but that is not the case. If you rely on the LCD display though, you get a much brighter picture which is why I had both A100's LCD brightness turned all the way down.

--
Jem

 
Thanks for your effort. Although I could test it myself (if I had the
time!) would your observations indicate that exposure is correct at
ISO100 - 400? Or is the underexposure gradually more pronounced when
you increase ISO? So f.ex. when you say you need +2.0 at ISO1600, you
would need +1.0 at ISO800?
My tests indicate that the under exposure occurs across the board in all ISO settings. It appears to be a simple metering inaccuracy to me. In the case of the A100, I simply pushed the higher ISO's a bit more which seems to really help noise.

--
Jem

 
adding +2 to my shots would blow them out..
I could understand +.5 but not 2..
This is exactly why you need to know your own camera. Not all of them are the same by any means. If yours is within .5 EV then that's great. All I can do is judge by the 3 A700's that I have played with so far.

If both demo models at the store would have been substantially different, I would have exchanged my camera for a new one (which was my plan). At some point I will probably send mine in for a metering recalibration, but knowing a way around it is useful. It would be interesting to see how many others have metering this far off.

--
Jem

 
If you have to set a correction of 2 stops, that means, that in fact the camera has a sensibility of ISO 400 when 1600 is adjusted.

In that case, I would give the camera back to sony in order to get it fixed. The exposure sensor is doing wrong.
--
Cheers
 
Didn't you mention something about jpegs looking well, but RAWS way
underexposed in an earlier thread?
No, it wasn't me. I think I recall that DK said that though. I, unfortunately, have still not even had a chance to see an A700, much less buy one. I am in Tokyo. The Land of Sony. The last place in the world to have the A700. It will finally be here in about 9 more days.

--
Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com
 
No, the histogram appears to be very accurate. That was my initial
fear, and would have meant that some type of processing of the jpeg
preview was happening, but that is not the case. If you rely on the
LCD display though, you get a much brighter picture which is why I
had both A100's LCD brightness turned all the way down.
Okay, well at least the RAW historgram is correct. That is really unfortunate that the LCD display shows such a dark image for RAW shots. I don't suppose you have tried the new firmware to see if this has been fixed?

--
Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com
 
I have been shooting night scenes at ISO 100 in my neighborhood from my front door . and I was having some very dark shots I couldn't explain .

I shot in A mode at first , then I decided the best shots were at f 11. @ 30 seconds & ISO 100 in RAW .

These captured the dark areas very dark and the lit areas normal , but they could be lightened in Sony IDC to look like daylight . Even the sky turned brilliant blue with some Photo Shop work .

My Sigma 18-50 MACRO adds some very thin star streaks radiating from the street lights , very beautiful .

I think that , what is happening is that the RAW files are not Amplified in the Camera as the JPG files are .

So It doesn't matter what ISO you use the pictures don't get enough light in any ISO so I went to Manual setting and used f 11 & 30 seconds @ ISO 100 .

Some shots are still too dark . I need to study these , but the Sony Light Box is very slow because it loses it's scyncronising when zooming or moving the view point . It seems like the camera gets some underexposed shots even when the image data file has not changed .
 

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