Kevin Fairhurst
Well-known member
I was wondering if I could pick your minds and get some opinions. I am a hobbyist and do not shoot for profit. I would love to get a digital back for my 645 AFD, any suggestions?
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Digital Back for Mamiya 645 AFD
- Thread starter Kevin Fairhurst
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arrogancehunter
Active member
I've only used the Phase One p25, p25+ and p45 on the Mamiya 645; and the Hasselblad H1 with the H101 back, and the H3D.
So I can only speak from my experiences on the job.
To me, the Mamiya feels better in my hands, and the controls are more intuitive in stressful situations.
I know everyone talks about the Hassy as being the best but to me It feels cheap, light and I've had more problems with camera failures with Hassy compared to Mamiya.
The H3D to me is a toy and is not worth the money at all. Just me.
Software. I prefer Capture One over Hasselblad's.
Phase one appears better than H3D.
My 2 cents.
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NONE
So I can only speak from my experiences on the job.
To me, the Mamiya feels better in my hands, and the controls are more intuitive in stressful situations.
I know everyone talks about the Hassy as being the best but to me It feels cheap, light and I've had more problems with camera failures with Hassy compared to Mamiya.
The H3D to me is a toy and is not worth the money at all. Just me.
Software. I prefer Capture One over Hasselblad's.
Phase one appears better than H3D.
My 2 cents.
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NONE
Jon Stewart
Senior Member
ZD might seem like a logical choice, for a lower cost option, but I've seen a few early reviews, one (at least) which indicate that focus and exposure has to be absolutely spot on for great photos. Seems like there might be a tradeoff for the low cost after all! The other review with pics was Frank Doorhof...he could get stunning shots from a bent piece of glass and piece of paper! I, as a mere mortal, might find it a bit harder
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Jon Stewart
gary barnhill
Active member
this and other threads discussing the ZD back
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t10465.html
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t10465.html
AlteredLight
Leading Member
New ZD back is a good value and in line with any next generation Canon.
ZD is a back for iso 50 to 100 and will have no noise at those settings.
The dynamic range is not listed, but very high to say the least. There is
so much dynamic range that you almost don't need a flash to recover
the shadows. You have 37mb raw files, so you can see the advantage
there. It ships with Adobe LightRoom for processing which helps. LightRoom
does open 37MB raws rather fast, I was surprised at how fast.
Can you get along on iso 50-100? Then you are in for a real treat.
Jon Stewart
Senior Member
Have you read any of the latest comments on it, now users are getting hold of them? Theory is a fine thing!
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Jon Stewart
i would urge you to look at all the options: the zd, leaf , phase one and sinar. in doing so you will get a better feel for the universe of backs and the plusses and minuses of each in terms of image quality, support, extended warranty availability and software. find a retailer that carries them and go spend time playing with the back. that's what i did and my final choice actually surprised me.
AlteredLight
Leading Member
To get hold of one, I just reach in my Pelican box and pick it up.
My main surprise was the dynamic range and detail throughout the
image. Hand metering outdoors can capture from blue sky down to
the shadows under a car with no trouble. Adobe Lightroom processes
even more light into the image.
The restriction is to work in the 50-100 iso range. Not a problem for
studio or landscape work where you are used to 4x5 film days. This
restricts you to long shutter speeds in low natural light for sure.
Its the same Dulsa chip as some of the Leaf models. Other than that, everything
is normal for the 645afd camera that one would use for a film back and iso
100 film. A fast Sandisk Ducati is on the way to speed loading time. Although
slow compared to Canon, the ZD is loading 37MB raw files and not 12MB of the
5D, just to compare @ 3X the data on the ZD.
ZD Back is not a solution for consumers and many pros. It is for commercial and landscape advance amateurs and pros who want a good entry level price and great
iso 100 conditions.
How about the quality of build? It feels married to the 645afd body once its in place. The easy to use buttons took sway over the smaller viewing screen, However there is a quick zoom feature. I suspect that most users will be depending on hand metering although the camera metering is very good also. The histogram does the rest and
you can set your own highlight and shadow warnings as you like. I set mine at 248 and found some slight warning of highlights and moved up to 252 and found only the specular highs on cars to be flashing, but none if exposure was hand metered.
I found that the Mamiya built in compensation corrects any highlight clipping at all in pictures where there is plenty of shadow detail. Another way was to leave the iso between 50 to 100 and your hand meter on iso 100 for highlight compensation.
So, I'm not depending on "theory" but actual use of the ZD Back.
Hope that might help any actual use and not theory?
RomanJohnston
Forum Pro
I have started playing with the files.....havent tried the ZD back....but have files from the Phase One 39MP back....and they are amazing.
One of the issues I see are the ZD backs are 14bit color where the Phase One are 16bit color.....
I have yet to test a ZD back and am keeping an eye out at my local dealer as they said they would be getting on for their rental dept soon....only then will I know if the diffrence affects real world output.
Roman
--
The Law Of Attraction is ALWAYS working. Your only choice is whether you drive 'it'...or 'it' drives you.
-Me
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/
One of the issues I see are the ZD backs are 14bit color where the Phase One are 16bit color.....
I have yet to test a ZD back and am keeping an eye out at my local dealer as they said they would be getting on for their rental dept soon....only then will I know if the diffrence affects real world output.
Roman
--
The Law Of Attraction is ALWAYS working. Your only choice is whether you drive 'it'...or 'it' drives you.
-Me
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/
AlteredLight
Leading Member
Why would you assume that? ZD has great dynamic range. With
at least 3 more stops range than a typical Canon, the exposures
have greater chance to capture more tonal range? Like any digital
camera, you want to preserve highlights which is much easier with
the ZD because of built in features like highlight warning and
645afd great metering.
Don't see why that would be hard? Working with 11 to 12 stops of DRSeems like there might be a tradeoff for the low cost after all! The
other review with pics was Frank Doorhof...he could get stunning
shots from a bent piece of glass and piece of paper! I, as a mere
mortal, might find it a bit harder
make that an easy task?
I think you are guessing and speculation without facts?
RomanJohnston
Forum Pro
How is that diffrent from any other camera?
Great exposures are created by care no matter what the medium.
Roman
--
The Law Of Attraction is ALWAYS working. Your only choice is whether you drive 'it'...or 'it' drives you.
-Me
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/
Jon Stewart
Senior Member
I want to hear from users who have them, before I think about buying.
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Jon Stewart
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Jon Stewart
i would not necessarily call the 14 bit color capture an issue...the early kodak back was 12 bit..the zd should still have better tonal gradiation than most dslr's and when you couple that with a 12 stop dr, i am incline to beleive the results will still be impressive.
RomanJohnston
Forum Pro
The jury will remain out till I test it myself....
You may be correct...and I thank you for your input...but I must have been from Missouri in a past life...LOL....show me. :
Roman
--
The Law Of Attraction is ALWAYS working. Your only choice is whether you drive 'it'...or 'it' drives you.
-Me
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/
i hear you, but one of the issues with early reviews is often that people have not come up the learning curve, and the review is biased, no skewed by that. the camera arrives one day and the next night or day a review is up? it's really not enough time...i can also tell you imo and experience is that shooting mf digital is very different than shooting with a dslr and after several weeks with a new back, i am still discovering more and more about what the back can do.
Jon Stewart
Senior Member
by all means if you are going to plunk down 7-20 grand on a back you should compare( and i did that before i bought my back)... and if you are going to compare ---the best comparison may be with the leaf aptus 22/54 which uses the same dalsa chip that the zd uses. but even then you may find that there are other differences which come into play.
AlteredLight
Leading Member
I've only gone through a couple of battery cycles. Mamiya says
over 450 pictures if you don't use the review too much. I wanted to
run the battery down, so did a lot of review rather than get a total
number on the pictures. It will get a good all day use next week where
the battery will have to do over 300 pictures, so we shall see.
The batteries are around $160 each. Right now you have to Tel: B&H
to order extra as they are not on the web site yet.
So far, the battery does look like it has a useful cycle. It is only running
the back and not the camera after all. Owning three batteries would be
enough for a day of shooting. There is an AC power supply for studio
work with high rates of shooting.
Weight with 645afd, back and standard 80mm lens is 4.111 lbs.
Ease of use gets a high rating. I like the larger buttons although I would have
moved the zoom button to the right side or even on top? Having it between
the display and the info button is maybe not the best place.
All the software features are simple and icon based. ZD has enough features in the settings to please anyone.
Why did we buy? It was hard to leave such a good 645afd with little use. This was a way to get our 645 lenses back to work. I do love the 2x3 format for much of our work. It was always a great portrait format. I have done a few crops in LightRoom and had no problem pulling out even a quarter of the working area and producing high quality images.
A big part of a purchase would be if you already own 645afd lenses. Having many thousands in that investment can push you into a buy. I'm really not interested in a partial coverage chip like P20 at $11K or anything more expensive. Mamiya did a great thing with this back. They were always known for good quality in the mid range prices of MF cameras. I think they are recovering that part of the MF market with the introduction of this ZD back. You can tell something when Adobe teams up with Mamiya that they are going for a long term relationship.
over 450 pictures if you don't use the review too much. I wanted to
run the battery down, so did a lot of review rather than get a total
number on the pictures. It will get a good all day use next week where
the battery will have to do over 300 pictures, so we shall see.
The batteries are around $160 each. Right now you have to Tel: B&H
to order extra as they are not on the web site yet.
So far, the battery does look like it has a useful cycle. It is only running
the back and not the camera after all. Owning three batteries would be
enough for a day of shooting. There is an AC power supply for studio
work with high rates of shooting.
Weight with 645afd, back and standard 80mm lens is 4.111 lbs.
Ease of use gets a high rating. I like the larger buttons although I would have
moved the zoom button to the right side or even on top? Having it between
the display and the info button is maybe not the best place.
All the software features are simple and icon based. ZD has enough features in the settings to please anyone.
Why did we buy? It was hard to leave such a good 645afd with little use. This was a way to get our 645 lenses back to work. I do love the 2x3 format for much of our work. It was always a great portrait format. I have done a few crops in LightRoom and had no problem pulling out even a quarter of the working area and producing high quality images.
A big part of a purchase would be if you already own 645afd lenses. Having many thousands in that investment can push you into a buy. I'm really not interested in a partial coverage chip like P20 at $11K or anything more expensive. Mamiya did a great thing with this back. They were always known for good quality in the mid range prices of MF cameras. I think they are recovering that part of the MF market with the introduction of this ZD back. You can tell something when Adobe teams up with Mamiya that they are going for a long term relationship.
Beachconnection
New member
You just can't tell until you "put an eye to it". Get an in depth demo if you can. Rent it if you can't get a demo for a day and spend the day in all the situations you can.
I use a P45+, I'm an amatuer although I did once make sort of a living in photography. I would not trade my Mamiya and P45+ for anything I have seen. But your mileage may vary. I once ownned a Hasselblad 500C, a wonderful camera, but it just didn't work for me, or, maybe, I for it.
I have seen some very nice files from the Mamiya ZD. If budget prevents the Phase give the Mamiya a good shot. It may be your answer. If budget is not a problem, go for the best, if it feels right!
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Jack
I use a P45+, I'm an amatuer although I did once make sort of a living in photography. I would not trade my Mamiya and P45+ for anything I have seen. But your mileage may vary. I once ownned a Hasselblad 500C, a wonderful camera, but it just didn't work for me, or, maybe, I for it.
I have seen some very nice files from the Mamiya ZD. If budget prevents the Phase give the Mamiya a good shot. It may be your answer. If budget is not a problem, go for the best, if it feels right!
--
Jack
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