K100D + Tamron 18-250 as a bridge from Fuji S7000?

[Alfisti]

hahaha sorry i meant ISO200 not 100

Now ISO 800 on the DSLR is about equal in noise to ISO 100 on the
panny for a 2 stop gain.

Could you calculate that for me?

--
http://flickr.com/photos/56983515@N00/
Current cam: TZ1
Wish cams: LX2 with Fuji F30 sensor and Pentax K100D super.
Wish lens: Tamron 18-250mm.

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***********************************************
Please visit my gallery at http://www.pbase.com/alfisti

Pentax Lens examples at http://www.pbase.com/alfisti/images_by_lens

Updated July 2007

 

[fluffy327906]

See this is what peopel fail to grasp but it is understandable.

Let's look at the Tamron, at 200mm (350mm equiv) it is f6.3, the
Panny FZ50 is around f/4 at 350mm which is a full 1 1/2 stops faster.
Now ISO 800 on the DSLR is about equal in noise to ISO 100 on the
panny for a 2 stop gain.

So overall you gain what, 1/2 a stop. Virtually NOTHING, max 1 stop.

Ah - right the panny has a fast lens compared to a rather slow DSLR lens.
but
oh BTW ISO 100 to 800 is 3 stops so the gain is 1.5 stops.

However from the noise point of view, which is pretty much related to sensor size, the panny has an area of 38.4mm2 and the DSLR eg K100D has area 345mm2 thats about 10 times better similar to just over 3 stops. You can't get round that but you can buy a faster lens.

For me the advantage is the 1.5 stops, better noise and the possiblility to expand - to faster lenses. Thats why I am moving from the fuji 9500.

--
---
Keith (fluffy)

 

[Daddy Dan]

There are some clear advantages to a DSLR (that I am very well aware of) over the P&S superzooms, but only the OP can sort them out as to their true value to him/her.

The Sony H2's very sharp lens provides a 36mm - 432mm range at f2.8 - f3.7. Find that lens in the DSLR world! I do realize that the lens speed advantage is offset by poor IQ performance of the H2's tiny sensor at anything over ISO 200.

My point to the OP is that if you really do not want to change lenses, want a single lens with great range, and the DSLR advantages are not so important to you, the H2, FZ50, or S3IS are compelling alternatives. They also make a much smaller, lighter package for hiking.

I have the 5 mp Sony H1 and get surprisingly great shots from it in good light. You would be hard pressed to tell the difference between it and the K100D in many of my shots. My K100, of course, blows it away in low light - especially when I've got my trustry old 50mm f2.0 on.

DD

 

[Daddy Dan]

Not really - the big difference is sensor size, the DSLR is a lot
bigger therefore noise is less and higher ISO possible. The other big
difference is the weight / size difference.

True, a DSLR has better high ISO performance, but the H2's lens is f2.8 - 3.7 over it's range. How much would that cost for a DSLR? The weight/size advantage is greatly in favor of the H2.

Generally, although the gap is closing, the lens for the DSLR event a
super zoom is better than the P&S.

Not true at all. Take a look at the H2, FZ50, or S3IS galleries. Very, very sharp.

Costs are becomming less
considering the current K100D price and super prices.

The H2 would still cost significantly less.

The decision is a persanal one in the end, horses-> courses blah blah.
As a bonus, the DSLR can expand as you do, photographically I mean
rather than physically!!!.

Maybe important to the OP - maybe not.

Keith (fluffy)

 

[CSPronken]

Well let me try to list the pros of both cameras as I see it:

S3:
-Size
-Price
-Video
-Real preview on LCD
-Silent
-Slightly longer tele

K100D:

-Gain 1.5 stop (with the option for more with other lenses to extremely more with F1.4 lenses)
-Better viewfinder
-Faster AF
-RAW
-Slightly more zoom
-Probably better ergonomics
-Quite a bit wider

Prolly forgot stuff, but you might want to see what of those are most important to you.

--
http://flickr.com/photos/56983515@N00/
Current cam: TZ1
Wish cams: LX2 with Fuji F30 sensor and Pentax K100D super.
Wish lens: Tamron 18-250mm.

 

[CSPronken]

Of course the K100D + Tamron 18-250 also has more ability to reduce depth of field.

--
http://flickr.com/photos/56983515@N00/
Current cam: TZ1
Wish cams: LX2 with Fuji F30 sensor and Pentax K100D super.
Wish lens: Tamron 18-250mm.

 

[Foxbat121]

is the pit fall of any small sensor camera. Yes, they can produce sharp images. But can any of them produce nice bokeh?

 

[Daddy Dan]

Actually yes under certain conditions. Clearly not at the same focal length and aperture as a DSLR, but if you back off and use a higher focal length with the considerable zoom available, you can get very narrow DOF and reasonably nice bokeh.

DD

 

[Russ Houston]

I bought the 18-250 specifically for my trip to Machu Picchu. I didn't want to bother with lens changes while my wife and I were trying to see the sites. I even bought the 18-250 even though I already owned the (similar to me) 28-300. I found though, that the 18mm wide end was much more versatile than the extra 50mm at the long end.

Are there compromises on the superzooms? Sure, but there are compromises on the point&shoot superzooms as well, and you can't change lenses. Once you buy a dSLR, you can always add lenses (and you will, trust me!), but you don't HAVE to for every situation. The superzooms work well for me if I don't crop extensively, and I don't print over 11x14. Beyond that, you might start to see some softness. Also, you can get some barrel distortion, but in nature shots you can't see it, and it's easy to correct in software if it does show up in a shot.

All in all, I didn't miss my other lenses one bit while I was out on vacation. The 18-250 is the perfect vacation lens for me.

When will the price drop? When Sigma comes out with something similar, or Tamron updates their lens line (sometime next year).
--
Russ
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rfortson/
Even bad photography can be fun

 

[Foxbat121]

shalow DOF in extreme long FL, yes. Nice bokeh, I don't know. You need to show me some samples. With a SLR, even the same FL lens from different manufacturers produce different bokeh. Unfortunately for P&S, you can't pick which lens to mount on.

 

[BrettRTurner]

I have an S1-IS and thought long and hard about an S3, before buying the K100D instead. My father in law has an S3, and I've both used it and done some post-processing for him.

In the field, in good light, the images from the S3 are pretty close to the images I would get from an F5.6ish lens on the K100D, shooting JPGs. When the light is less than good, the K100D is noticeably better shooting JPG, and materially better shooting raw (which gives me the effect of about another stop of light in postprocessing). There's also a certain richness to the K100D's colors, especially shooting raw, which I saw on only very good light on the S1 or S3.

The final thing is, an S3 or an S5 will be what it is forever. It won't ever get any better. A K100D with a superzoom lens doesn't have the lens glued on. At any time you want, you can add a faster lens, not a superzoom, and get results which are much better than a fixed lens camera. And fast lenses don't have to be terribly expensive; older primes like the A50 and the A28 sell for less than $100 every day on eBay. That was the factor which turned the tide for me: the K100D can grow along with the owner. The S3 felt limiting---after the S1 I was ready for something more challenging---and it the limit would always be there.

But if all you want is a very portable camera with full manual controls, lots of zoom, and very good video mode for use with children, the Sx-IS series isn't a bad place to go.

--Brett

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K100D, June 2007

 

[Steve_]

you just miscalculated how many stops that equates too. ISO800 in RAW mode where you can control the NR compromise equals ISO100 in fixed lens stuff. Having spent the last two years shooting with Panasonics, and now having the K100D, I can attest that the high-ISO "myth" is anything but. Whatever numbers you want to put to it, there really is no comparison. When processed to the same level of detail the K100D posseses at least a 3 stop adavantage. Even at ISO80 my FZ5 was had more noise than I liked--even though I did love the rest of the camera and the performance it achieved.
--
Pentax K100D w/kit 18-55 & 50-200, Panny LZ3
http://s90223656.onlinehome.us/

 

[Daddy Dan]

"Nice bokeh" is like beauty - it depends on who's looking. You also have to control what is in the background to get the bokeh you want. I don't do much of that. I do mostly general family snapshots and landscapes.

After a very quick search, here are some "playing around" examples of narrow DOF at longer FL with my H1. The last one is in macro mode which the H series does quite well. Please note that I paid no attention whatsoever to bokeh in these shots, but perhaps you might get some idea of how the H1 handles it. I have see examples of what I consider quite nice bokeh from other H series owners who actually know what they are doing.







DD

 

[Daddy Dan]

Steve, I think you're about right in your statements about the ISO advantage of the K100 compared to your Panny.

However, remembering the consistent criticism in the reviews on this site of Panasonic's noisy sensors, the Sony H series and Canon S series have better noise control at up to ISO 200 than the Panny counterparts. I would say that the ISO advantage of the K100 over the Sony and Canon superzooms would be a little less.

DD

 

[Millsee]

Hi, I have the combo K100d and Tamron 18-200 , It is my only lense and I have found it great. No need to change lenses for everyday photos.-- The pictures are quite good, only my expertise that is lacking. If I can work out how to post a picture ,i will give you an example.
Susan M

 

[Foxbat121]

Nice shots. Not sure I like the bokeh though. As you said, it might be subjective.

 

[leifw]

If I can work out how to post a picture ,i will give you an example.
Susan M

I would be most thankful if you'd be willing to give posting some samples a try.

 

[leifw]

Nice shots. Not sure I like the bokeh though. As you said, it might
be subjective.

I've always been a fan of this image taken 3 years ago with my S7000 in Glacier Park.

http://wickland.net/Us/2004/2004.3.Summer/Rocky%20Mountain%20Wildflowers/Glacier%20Wildflowers/Lewis '%20Monkey%20Flower.jpg

 

[leifw]

Well let me try to list the pros of both cameras as I see it:

That's pretty much the list I devised. The only exception was that the S3 column should've included $600 or so. ;-)

Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[Millsee]

I will give it a try. These were taken at a rodeo a week after I got the camera. Shot at 200mm.
--
Susan M