On viewfinders and other shortages of my E300

[steppenwolfer]

I read a lot about viewfinders and since I use manual lenses I often wished that my Oly E300 would have better viewfinder.

Recently I went to photo shop and was looking for tripod. They also had all new bodies - Pentax K10, Nikon D80, D200 etc. Somehow I ended looking at new bodies and before I knew I had Nikon D80 in my hands. It handels quiet nicely. Top display is very nice addition, also big display (compared to E300) was quiet nice. But what really knock me, was look through VF! This camera has fantastic viewfinder!!! I also tried Pentax K10 and it has also great viewfinder, but somehow I preferred Nikon design and layout.

After this event I am constantly thinking about switching to Nikon system. I wish my Oly would have such viewfinder! I also now understand people complaining about viewfinders, since there is really big difference looking trough tunnel and looking trough VF!

Other thing I am lately struggling with is lack of shallow DOF - I saw photos from Pentax where foreground was really nicely separated from background. And it was not macro photo. So I am hoping that I would gain a little bit if going to system with bigger sensor. And third thing is that sometimes I must use noise removal software even on photos taken at ISO400. Noise is especially evident in photos where f nmbr of 1.8 or 2 is used and on areas that are out of focus. Other instance of visible noise is in deep blues sky. I would not consider this a problem, but it is visible in photos on screen, when I am looking at whole photography and not zooming in.

I know that a lot of users on this forum had enough of such complains. But story does not finish here. I would like to know if somebody else noticed these problems, or is it just me? In later case, I could suspect I am doing something wrong.

Also, for all who also use other cameras, would I really solve some of my problems , if I go to other system? I really like Olympus, but if some of above issues are better solved with other makers, I will change system, although there is no 14-54 equivalent from other maker .

BR

 

[SteveM7i]

I think you've been around here long enough to answer your own questions.

Good luck working things out.

Steve

I read a lot about viewfinders and since I use manual lenses I
often wished that my Oly E300 would have better viewfinder.
Recently I went to photo shop and was looking for tripod. They also
had all new bodies - Pentax K10, Nikon D80, D200 etc. Somehow I
ended looking at new bodies and before I knew I had Nikon D80 in my
hands. It handels quiet nicely. Top display is very nice addition,
also big display (compared to E300) was quiet nice. But what really
knock me, was look through VF! This camera has fantastic
viewfinder!!! I also tried Pentax K10 and it has also great
viewfinder, but somehow I preferred Nikon design and layout.
After this event I am constantly thinking about switching to Nikon
system. I wish my Oly would have such viewfinder! I also now
understand people complaining about viewfinders, since there is
really big difference looking trough tunnel and looking trough VF!

Other thing I am lately struggling with is lack of shallow DOF - I
saw photos from Pentax where foreground was really nicely separated
from background. And it was not macro photo. So I am hoping that I
would gain a little bit if going to system with bigger sensor. And
third thing is that sometimes I must use noise removal software
even on photos taken at ISO400. Noise is especially evident in
photos where f nmbr of 1.8 or 2 is used and on areas that are out
of focus. Other instance of visible noise is in deep blues sky. I
would not consider this a problem, but it is visible in photos on
screen, when I am looking at whole photography and not zooming in.

I know that a lot of users on this forum had enough of such
complains. But story does not finish here. I would like to know if
somebody else noticed these problems, or is it just me? In later
case, I could suspect I am doing something wrong.
Also, for all who also use other cameras, would I really solve some
of my problems , if I go to other system? I really like Olympus,
but if some of above issues are better solved with other makers, I
will change system, although there is no 14-54 equivalent from
other maker .

BR

 

[Simon Cowell]

... but is the grass always greener on the other side?

 

[steppenwolfer]

... but is the grass always greener on the other side?

That's what I am asking myself! And hoping that someone else can give me some clue!

 

[Xargo]

... but is the grass always greener on the other side?

That's what I am asking myself! And hoping that someone else can
give me some clue!

My honest opinion is that VF is meant for framing the shot and even though Oly viewfinders just suck compared to at least Nikon D80 and D200 for me E-330's VF is certainly good enough to compose the shot. If I need a DOF-preview I switch to LV. Try to do that with Nikon! I think that Oly's implementation of LV acting as a support for quite poor VF is absolutely great. I also have split prism focusing screen in my E-330 and now I can accurately focus legacy lenses even without LV B.

I also have faith that P1 will provide E-1 quality VF and LV. This should be a killer combination and if that happens I'm sure to add P1 to my gear.

I haven't used E-300 so I don't know how it handles noise but when I upgraded from E-500 to E-330 there was a huge improvement so I guess you would also be impressed if you upgraded to modern Oly camera like E-510. In camera IS also sounds interesting even though I haven't tried it. Good luck with whatever decision you make. If my top concern would be good VF I would certainly get myself a D200 however.

--

E-330, 11-22mm, 250mm F4 Telyt-R, 60mm F2.8 Macro Elmarit-R, 135mm F2.8 Elmarit-R, 90mm F2.8 Elmarit-R, 35mm F2 Summicron-R, 14-45mm F3.5-5.6, 40-150mm F3.5-4.5, 35mm F3.5 macro, FL36, 2x Leica-R extender

 

[Guns]

Hello xargo. I noticed you wrote you have split prism focusing screen in your e330. Is that the same focusing screen that was 'standard' in any film slr? The one that spilt the picture top from bottom when not in focus. If that is what I have in mind, how did you get such focusing screen to your E-330?

Talking about VF, have anyone tried the ME-1 VF-magnifier? I am wondering since I just got my E-330. I also use glasses, and could very well need a bigger VF.
GL

 

[Xargo]

Hello xargo. I noticed you wrote you have split prism focusing
screen in your e330. Is that the same focusing screen that was
'standard' in any film slr? The one that spilt the picture top from
bottom when not in focus. If that is what I have in mind, how did
you get such focusing screen to your E-330?

Yes that's just what I'm talking about. It also has a microprism collar around the split prism. I bought mine from eBay shop "Virtual Village". It's a Chinese company but they have many different "local" eBay shops like Virtaul Village Germany, Australia etc.. I can recommend buying one as it's quite cheap but don't expect top notch quality and stay away from their adapter rings. I offered a Leica-R to 4/3" adapter and it's just horrible.

If you want better quality (or customized) focusing screen I think you are better off with Katz Eye screen ( http://www.katzeyeoptics.com/ ). I don't have any first hand experience but I expect the quality to be higher than those cheap Chinese screens.

Oh, my screen is originally meant for E-300 but fits to E-330 just fine. Installation can be a bit tricky but it's not at all impossible.

Talking about VF, have anyone tried the ME-1 VF-magnifier? I am
wondering since I just got my E-330. I also use glasses, and could
very well need a bigger VF.

My honest opinion is that ME-1 is useless with glasses. I have ME-1 and don't usually wear glasses (I just have -1 diopters) but still the ME-1 stays home when I go taking photos. If I wore glasses all the time I hadn't bought the ME-1 in the first place. With the E-500 I had previously I found some use for ME-1 but now if I want to see more detail I just switch to LV B. ME-1 doesn't make the VF any bigger.

--

E-330, 11-22mm, 250mm F4 Telyt-R, 60mm F2.8 Macro Elmarit-R, 135mm F2.8 Elmarit-R, 90mm F2.8 Elmarit-R, 35mm F2 Summicron-R, 14-45mm F3.5-5.6, 40-150mm F3.5-4.5, 35mm F3.5 macro, FL36, 2x Leica-R extender

 

[Tom Bedlam]

I'm thinking about upgrading my e300 too, but not to Nikon. I have experienced every problem you describe, but I've just learned to live with them.

The e300 does have a little noise at 400ISO, easily corrected. As I shoot everything in raw anyway (e300 metering can be a crapshoot, a 4th issue) it doesn't add any significant time to workflow.

I agree that the 300 does have a poor viewfinder. I've grown used to using the viewfinder magnification knob where focus becomes critical--I do this so often that is has becomenatural for me now and I do it without thinking.

And the 4/3 system does have a greater DOF--sometimes that means I have to move my feet and recompose if I want to blow out the background, but I don't consider this an annoyance... just a part of working with the camera.

The first two concerns should be adequately addressed with the 410/510 models. The third (exceptional DOF) is really a matter of taste, style and familiarity with your equipment.

Here's a recent shot of the pendulums within a grandfather clock. I'm not particularly proud of the shot, but it does exhibit narrow DOF and was shot at 400 ISO using a rig similar to yours, i.e. e300 with 14-54.



Regards,
Tom

--
Tom's hobo gear: e300, 14-54, fl50 and kit lenses

 

[Guns]

Oh, my screen is originally meant for E-300 but fits to E-330 just
fine. Installation can be a bit tricky but it's not at all
impossible.

Did you install it yourself? It sounds like a complicated operation. But even if I could do it myself, what will happen to warranty?

 

[paultakeda]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jmoirUGx4nM

Demo!

 

[Xargo]

Did you install it yourself? It sounds like a complicated
operation. But even if I could do it myself, what will happen to
warranty?

Yeah, I did the installation myself but then I have been working as an mechanic at leading Finnish airsoft store repairing AEGs and stuff so I'm quite confident with all kinds of repairing and modifying.

I tried to contact Olympus Finland and ask if they would install the screen but they declined so I really had no other choice than try to install it myself.

I guess the warranty is technically off but if I just put the old screen back I doubt the service center would see that the camera was modified. So basically you still have the warranty unless you mess up the camera while installing the screen.

So if you install the screen yourself you do so at your own risk.

Notice however that you don't need to take the camera apart. The screen isn't meant for replacing but it can be taken off and replaced by dexterous enough person. If you are able to solder SMD components you should also be able to install the screen.

--

E-330, 11-22mm, 250mm F4 Telyt-R, 60mm F2.8 Macro Elmarit-R, 135mm F2.8 Elmarit-R, 90mm F2.8 Elmarit-R, 35mm F2 Summicron-R, 14-45mm F3.5-5.6, 40-150mm F3.5-4.5, 35mm F3.5 macro, FL36, 2x Leica-R extender

 

[Alan84]

I too want to a split focusing screen on my E-300. The katzeye's seems to be the best one avaible but I am looking for a cheaper alternatives. Have anyone install a focusing screen on a E-300 themselves? was it nerve breaking and is it easy to mess things up? what would the worst scenerio be?

 

[Tom Bedlam]

Before you commit yourself, I recommend reading katzeye's own disclaimer about metering abnormalities which may occur with the screen installed in the e300, particularly when shooting at large apertures. It was enough to scare me away.

I too want to a split focusing screen on my E-300. The katzeye's
seems to be the best one avaible but I am looking for a cheaper
alternatives. Have anyone install a focusing screen on a E-300
themselves? was it nerve breaking and is it easy to mess things up?
what would the worst scenerio be?

--
Tom's hobo gear: e300, 14-54, fl50 and kit lenses

 

[Brent Lossing]

Interesting composition and lighting - why not post it here?
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=22995023

 

[steppenwolfer]

Thank you for your input! I really appreciate yours and also everyone else's opinion in these matters.

I agree that your photo is very nice and shows that dof can be shallow with Olympus, but this is basically close-up photo, so in these cases it is not so hard to achieve shallow DOF. I have more trouble with dof shooting face portraits or waist up portraits. There it is harder to achieve shallow dof, at least with my eqipment and lenses - 14-54, 40-150, Konica Hexanon 40, Carl Zeiss Flektagon 35/2.4 - later two are old lenses, konica is modified and CZJ is used with M42 adapter.

I also consider waiting for E-510 to see what will it be like, since at least noise department seems to be solved. But I am afraid that VF will be small, tunnel-like again. And if I recall correctly, cameras with LiveView have even dimmer VF? So I somehow expect even worse VF...

 

[Tom Bedlam]

Thank you for your kind words. In most cases, both portraits and landscapes, I'm usually thankful for the additional dof that the e-system allows. As for your pessimism that the 510 viewfinder will be worse than the e300, frankly I can't imagine how... plus the LV should help considerably.

But back to the DOF. Sometimes, I do like to blur things and get abstract, and the e-system does present a different challenge, but it's not impossible. It can't be much harder with an e300 than a pentax, can it?

You need to move your feet. Get in closer, after all e-system cameras are phenomenal at focusing close. Use a longer focal length if you can. I've seen decent fashion photos shot with telephoto distances far beyond the normal 85-105mm recommended, so don't be afraid to experiment. If circumstances permit, try to allow for more room between your subject and background... often as easy as asking your model to move forward.

My web skills are severely lacking, and I don't have any ready people portraits to illustrate as examples. However, here's a shot I took of a dog with a head roughly the size of a person's noggin:



This was taken with my old kit lens. Not a superb shot, but it does illustrate nice bokeh that can be achieved at an equivalent setting that could be used for taking headshots with a blown background, which in this case is the dog's yard.

Thank you for your input! I really appreciate yours and also
everyone else's opinion in these matters.

I agree that your photo is very nice and shows that dof can be
shallow with Olympus, but this is basically close-up photo, so in
these cases it is not so hard to achieve shallow DOF. I have more
trouble with dof shooting face portraits or waist up portraits.
There it is harder to achieve shallow dof, at least with my
eqipment and lenses - 14-54, 40-150, Konica Hexanon 40, Carl Zeiss
Flektagon 35/2.4 - later two are old lenses, konica is modified and
CZJ is used with M42 adapter.
I also consider waiting for E-510 to see what will it be like,
since at least noise department seems to be solved. But I am afraid
that VF will be small, tunnel-like again. And if I recall
correctly, cameras with LiveView have even dimmer VF? So I somehow
expect even worse VF...

--
Tom's hobo gear: e300, 14-54, fl50 and kit lenses

 

[Tom Bedlam]

The grandfather clock was fun. By concentrating on the central pulley of a grandfather clock, I was hoping to express the importance of the present moment, in relation to the past and future, symbolized respectively by the out of focus pulleys in front and behind.

I always follow the competitions and try to complete the assignment... I think it's fun practice. I've never entered, though. If you think the shot is good enough, I'll post it up.

Interesting composition and lighting - why not post it here?
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=22995023

--
Tom's hobo gear: e300, 14-54, fl50 and kit lenses

 

[Jay Turberville]

I read a lot about viewfinders and since I use manual lenses I
often wished that my Oly E300 would have better viewfinder.

Bigger viewfinders aren't necessarily better for manual focus lenses. Right now I think that the Panasonic DMC-L1 is perhaps the best DSLR for manual focus cameras. It has sensor base liveview and AF sensor based focus confirmation.

Recently I went to photo shop and was looking for tripod. They also
had all new bodies - Pentax K10, Nikon D80, D200 etc. Somehow I
ended looking at new bodies and before I knew I had Nikon D80 in my
hands. It handels quiet nicely. Top display is very nice addition,
also big display (compared to E300) was quiet nice. But what really
knock me, was look through VF! This camera has fantastic
viewfinder!!!

I have a very hard time relating to comments like this. I buy a camera in order to make photographs, not in order to have pretty views through the camera. I'm not saying that you should see things like I do. I'm just pointing out that that big bright viewfinders are of almost no importance to me.

I also now
understand people complaining about viewfinders, since there is
really big difference looking trough tunnel and looking trough VF!

I still don't get it. Maybe I'm just dense.

Other thing I am lately struggling with is lack of shallow DOF - I
saw photos from Pentax where foreground was really nicely separated
from background. And it was not macro photo. So I am hoping that I
would gain a little bit if going to system with bigger sensor.

The difference in sensor size is minimal and has little practical impact on DoF. What you need is fast sharp lenses. If you can get the ones you need for less money on the other systems, then that's a good reason to consider them. If not, you won't gain much by switching.

And
third thing is that sometimes I must use noise removal software
even on photos taken at ISO400. Noise is especially evident in
photos where f nmbr of 1.8 or 2 is used and on areas that are out
of focus. Other instance of visible noise is in deep blues sky. I
would not consider this a problem, but it is visible in photos on
screen, when I am looking at whole photography and not zooming in.

This doesn't jibe with my experience. But then I'm using my E-330 more than my E-300 lately.

I know that a lot of users on this forum had enough of such
complains. But story does not finish here. I would like to know if
somebody else noticed these problems, or is it just me? In later
case, I could suspect I am doing something wrong.

I dunno. What is the primary end use for you pictures? What do other people think of your photos? Are you becoming hypersensitive to noise where nobody else notices or cares? Are you exposing well? I dunno. You didn't post any examples from which to judge.

Also, for all who also use other cameras, would I really solve some
of my problems , if I go to other system? I really like Olympus,
but if some of above issues are better solved with other makers, I
will change system, although there is no 14-54 equivalent from
other maker .

Yes. Get a Canon 1D-MIII and some nice fast glass. It will give a real difference in DoF, will have much better high ISO performance, and has sensor base liveview for manual focus. It is a very nice camera based on everything I've read.

--
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com

 

[Jay Turberville]

My honest opinion is that VF is meant for framing the shot and even
though Oly viewfinders just suck compared to at least Nikon D80 and
D200 for me E-330's VF is certainly good enough to compose the
shot. If I need a DOF-preview I switch to LV.

Didja know you could do that with one button press? Press to get DoF preview on the liveview B and release to go back to normal viewfinder use.

Try to do that with
Nikon! I think that Oly's implementation of LV acting as a support
for quite poor VF is absolutely great. I also have split prism
focusing screen in my E-330 and now I can accurately focus legacy
lenses even without LV B.

Hmmm - which focus screen are you using?

I also have faith that P1 will provide E-1 quality VF and LV. This
should be a killer combination and if that happens I'm sure to add
P1 to my gear.

I've got my fingers and toes crossed.

--
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com

 

[tmessenger]

If you want to use MF lenses the Nikon D80 does not meter with them other then a couple of nikon MF AIS lens. The Pentex does meter and also has focus conformation but the only adapter available is for M42 lenses.

tm