sharpest pentax wideangle

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I'm looking for the sharpest wideangle lens that I can get in Pentax mount. I currently have the 16-45, but despite its good reputation, I can't help but be disappointed by its sharpness at 16mm, even stopped down.

My main question is whether or not the DA 14mm would be a significant improvement -- this lens seems to have a mixed reputation. I know the 12-24 and upcoming 16-50 would likely show an improvement, but they are a little larger than I was hoping for.

I'd like to see some 100% crops of the 14 in action to help me decide. I'd also be open to looking at some 100% crops (especially corners) of the 16-45 at 16mm -- maybe I just have a bad copy of the lens. (I've searched the forum and pbase, but mostly have found web-size samples -- not very useful for determining sharpness).

Thanks
 
I'm looking for the sharpest wideangle lens that I can get in
Pentax mount. I currently have the 16-45, but despite its good
reputation, I can't help but be disappointed by its sharpness at
16mm, even stopped down.

My main question is whether or not the DA 14mm would be a
significant improvement -- this lens seems to have a mixed
reputation. I know the 12-24 and upcoming 16-50 would likely show
an improvement, but they are a little larger than I was hoping for.

I'd like to see some 100% crops of the 14 in action to help me
decide. I'd also be open to looking at some 100% crops (especially
corners) of the 16-45 at 16mm -- maybe I just have a bad copy of
the lens. (I've searched the forum and pbase, but mostly have found
web-size samples -- not very useful for determining sharpness).
Here are some full size K10D JPEGS (converted from Raw) of boring, but useful, brick wall shots of the DA14, DA 12-24 @ 12mm & 24mm and the DA 16-45 @ 16mm & 28mm. All were shot at f4.0.

They are about 2.4MB each. I hope they help.

DA14 @ f4.0
http://www.zen70100.zen.co.uk/jpgfiles/lens%20tests/[email protected]
DA 12-24 (12mm) @ f4.0
http://www.zen70100.zen.co.uk/jpgfiles/lens%20tests/[email protected]
DA 12-24 (24mm) @ f4.0
http://www.zen70100.zen.co.uk/jpgfiles/lens%20tests/[email protected]
DA 16-45 (16mm) @ f4.0
http://www.zen70100.zen.co.uk/jpgfiles/lens%20tests/DA16-45_16f4.jpg
DA 16-45 (28mm) @ f4.0
http://www.zen70100.zen.co.uk/jpgfiles/lens%20tests/DA16-45@24_f4.jpg

The DA 12-24 is by far and away the sharpest of them all, also at smaller apertures too. It's a very good lens, probably the best of all the current DA zooms. The DA 16-45 does fall off at the very extreme cornerss at f4.0, but improves rapidly at f5.6 and is excellent at f8.0.

The DA 14 never seems to get as sharp as the DA 12-24 f stop for f stop. I personally wouldn't consider one myself, the DA 12-24 is more useful on all counts except for the extra stop.
--
Richard Day - 'Carpe Diem!'
Gloucester UK
 
I have to agree with Richard on the DA 12-24.

In my opinion, the way I use it, the DA12-24 is definately the sharpest of the DA lenses currently available and distortions are fairly well controlled for these focal lengths. I do not find the CA's to be any problem either. What CA's do appear are correctable within CS2 whether shot in JPEG or RAW.

The lens is so sharp and corrected that I no longer use and/or have sold primes that covered these focal lengths.
Stephen

--
http://www.pbase.com/scgushue

 
Try and find a Tokina AT-X 17mm wide angle.
I'm looking for the sharpest wideangle lens that I can get in
Pentax mount. I currently have the 16-45, but despite its good
reputation, I can't help but be disappointed by its sharpness at
16mm, even stopped down.

My main question is whether or not the DA 14mm would be a
significant improvement -- this lens seems to have a mixed
reputation. I know the 12-24 and upcoming 16-50 would likely show
an improvement, but they are a little larger than I was hoping for.

I'd like to see some 100% crops of the 14 in action to help me
decide. I'd also be open to looking at some 100% crops (especially
corners) of the 16-45 at 16mm -- maybe I just have a bad copy of
the lens. (I've searched the forum and pbase, but mostly have found
web-size samples -- not very useful for determining sharpness).

Thanks
 
Here are some full size K10D JPEGS (converted from Raw) of boring,
but useful, brick wall shots of the DA14, DA 12-24 @ 12mm & 24mm
and the DA 16-45 @ 16mm & 28mm. All were shot at f4.0.
F/4 is not the optimum sharpness point for any of these lenses, Richard. The DA14 plateaus at f/5-5.6, the DA12-24 peaks at f/8 as does the DA16-45.

I wrote a fairly exhaustive review on the DA14 to the PDML recently:

----
Anyone made at least a semi serious side-by-side DA 14 v DA 12-24(at
14) image comparison?
I recently looked at a couple of DA12-24 RAW demo files. There
weren't any that were captures at exactly 14mm. My prior impressions
that it is a good lens but has more CA and more rectilinear
distortion than the DA14 does at lens openings and focal lengths
which bracket the DA14 were borne out. The f/8 exposures were
significant improvements over the f/4 exposures. But I don't own one
so I can't do an exhaustive side-by-side unless someone wants to loan
me one for testing.

But those test shots inspired me to do some more exhaustive DA14 test
shots on a variety of targets. My summary:
  • Some corner/edge light falloff is apparent until about f/5.
  • Rendering characteristics vary depending upon focus setting and lens
opening, most are excellent particularly at f/4.5 and smaller lens openings
if working in the very near range.
  • Corner and edge sharpness are satisfactory wide open but improve
greatly when stopped down to f/5-5.6, after which they continue to
improve a little but very slowly to f/11 or so.
  • Much after f/11, diffraction effects begin to intrude on sharpness.
  • Flare resistance is excellent even wide open.
  • There is a small amount of CA, consistent at all lens openings,
which can be removed easily in Lightroom or Camera Raw.
  • It is a demanding lens to focus critically when wide open and
focusing near the close-focus limits. At f/5.6 the DoF at normal shooting
distances is so great that it covers a multitude of sins, but wide open and at
close range you have to have it on the money. I go to manual focus and use
Pentax Magnifier FB 2x for critical focus.
  • Using a tripod with this wide a lens is essential to getting the
best resolution. Moving to the K10D, the incremental resolution
upgrade is most advantageous for this lens and the DA21 Limited.

I've had the DA14 since I first bought the DS body and it is one of my most consistent performers. I've made well over 3000 exposures with it. The more I use it, the more I learn to exploit it, the more
I like it.

Compared to the Sigma 14mm f/2.8 and Canon EF14/2.8L that I tested, the DA14 is a jewel and incredibly inexpensive for its quality. Regards field of view coverage, comparing what I get from it against my old work done with Nikkor 20mm f/3.5 AI-S, Zeiss Biogon 21/3.5, and Leica Elmarit-M 21/2.8 ASPH lenses, it holds its own very well. It's not quite up to what I could get from the Hasselblad 903SWC's Biogon 38mm f/4.5 ... but then very very few lenses in this class are.

BTW: set to Program mode and the MTF line, the camera tends to keep it at f/5.6 most of the time, which is right in line with my evaluations which indicated best performance between f/4.5 and f/5.6.

----
The DA 14 never seems to get as sharp as the DA 12-24 f stop for f
stop. I personally wouldn't consider one myself, the DA 12-24 is
more useful on all counts except for the extra stop.
Based on what I've seen in photos, including the ones you posted, I disagree. I had the 16-45 and found it an excellent lens but the DA14 was a better performer on sharpness and far better on rectilinear correction. I don't have a DA12-24 to do the same kind of exhaustive testing with that I put to the DA14 ... someone offers me one, and I'll do it.

But I find the DA14 to be an excellent performer, very useful and very flexible. I use it an awful lot for an ultrawide and get excellent results with it. And I'm pretty demanding...

G
 
Thanks very much for the images -- that's just the kind of thing I wanted to see.
The DA 12-24 is by far and away the sharpest of them all, also at
smaller apertures too. It's a very good lens, probably the best of
all the current DA zooms. The DA 16-45 does fall off at the very
extreme cornerss at f4.0, but improves rapidly at f5.6 and is
excellent at f8.0.
The 12-24 does indeed look the sharpest, though at 12 mm the distortion doesn't compare favorably to the

DA 14. The 16-45 clearly looks the worst (matching my experience), but in my experience with the lens, the corners don't recover, even stopped down.
The DA 14 never seems to get as sharp as the DA 12-24 f stop for f
stop. I personally wouldn't consider one myself, the DA 12-24 is
more useful on all counts except for the extra stop.
--
Richard Day - 'Carpe Diem!'
Gloucester UK
I would definitely opt for the 12-24, except that it's a little bigger, a little more expensive, and a little slower -- I would really only use it at the wide end, so I'd rather have the prime, if the sharpness can hold up, at least when stopped down.

Any test shots of the DA 14 at f5.6 or f8?
 
Thanks for the thorough review. I would really like to be satisfied with the DA 14, as it is perfect on paper, but I haven't seen the images to completely convince me. Do you have any stopped down crops that you could share?

I'm glad to hear that it compares favorably to the Sigma 14mm f/2.8 -- I used to own the Sigma 14mm f/3.5 and found it satisfactory as far as sharpness goes (flare, on the other hand, was quite a problem). I also had the Tokina 12-24 in Nikon mount, so I have confidence in the sharpness of that design, but the size of the thing (and some pretty serious CA), leave me wary of buying the Pentax version.
 
I don't understand, I thought you were looking for the sharpest wide angle you could get. Now there is a concern about size and distortion. The 12-24 is clearly sharper than the 14mm, even at its wide open position, imagine if it were stopped down a little. The size is really not that much difference, not nearly the difference you would find if it were the 21mm you were comparing, so it's pretty negligible. The distortion is evident because the 12-24 is set at its widest, 12mm, there is less noticeable distortion at 14mm and so on. And finally, on top of sharpness you have the versatility of the zoom, 12-24mm is a very usable range covering all the wide angles you could ever want. Bob.
 
I have several examples made with the 14mm lens available on line.

First, a set of minimal processing example files:
http://homepage.mac.com/godders/14mm-examples/

Then a bunch of images I've posted to various picture a week and other efforts. These are web rez, with larger renderings available as noted:

http://homepage.mac.com/ramarren/photo/PAW5/18p.htm
http://homepage.mac.com/ramarren/photo/PAW5/18q.htm
http://homepage.mac.com/ramarren/photo/PAW5/19p.htm
http://homepage.mac.com/ramarren/photo/PAW5/21q.htm
http://homepage.mac.com/ramarren/photo/PAW5/31.htm
http://homepage.mac.com/ramarren/photo/PAW5/35.htm
http://homepage.mac.com/ramarren/photo/PAW5/37p.htm *
http://homepage.mac.com/ramarren/photo/PAW5/41q.htm
http://homepage.mac.com/ramarren/photo/PAW7/14.htm *
  • means there is a larger rendering available at that page as well.
I don't normally post testing samples ... the full test set from the other day is about 2-3Gbytes worth of data. Subsampling that to give an understandable picture of the total lens' performance is simply more work than I have time to do at present, my apologies.

However, I've posted one quick snap, kind of a flare/burnout test capture, made by pointing the lens up at a tree and letting the AF and AE set to f/5.6 do their thing. The only processing applied to this one was to push up the exposure compensation a little bit and apply -23RG/+26BY CA correction in Lightroom. It's about 2Mbytes in size, full resolution, JPEG compressed at the median value:

http://homepage.mac.com/godders/14mm-tough-shot-2728.jpg
©2007 by Godfrey DiGiorgi
Pentax K10D + DA14/2.8 ED
ISO 100 @ f/5.6 @ 1/400 sec, Av mode

I think it shows the flare resistance off very well, as well as the resolution.

Godfrey
Thanks for the thorough review. I would really like to be
satisfied with the DA 14, as it is perfect on paper, but I haven't
seen the images to completely convince me. Do you have any stopped
down crops that you could share?

I'm glad to hear that it compares favorably to the Sigma 14mm f/2.8
-- I used to own the Sigma 14mm f/3.5 and found it satisfactory as
far as sharpness goes (flare, on the other hand, was quite a
problem). I also had the Tokina 12-24 in Nikon mount, so I have
confidence in the sharpness of that design, but the size of the
thing (and some pretty serious CA), leave me wary of buying the
Pentax version.
 
I don't understand, I thought you were looking for the sharpest
wide angle you could get. Now there is a concern about size and
distortion.
I do want the sharpest wide angle I can get -- but I'd like that wide angle to be the DA 14, for minor reasons previously mentioned.
The 12-24 is clearly sharper than the 14mm, even at its
wide open position, imagine if it were stopped down a little.
I'd rather not just imagine it -- let's see some pictures of both lenses at f/8.
The size is really not that much difference, not nearly the difference
you would find if it were the 21mm you were comparing, so it's
pretty negligible.
I've never seen the DA 14 in the flesh, but the 12-24 seems rather large to me, and according to the specs the DA 14 is about an inch shorter, which is enough to make some difference to me. It doesn't need to be a pancake, but I'd rather it not attract any more attention than necessary, or be any more ungainly to carry than necessary.
The distortion is evident because the 12-24 is
set at its widest, 12mm, there is less noticeable distortion at
14mm and so on. And finally, on top of sharpness you have the
versatility of the zoom, 12-24mm is a very usable range covering
all the wide angles you could ever want. Bob.
Versatility is nice, but the 24mm long end wouldn't be of much use to me (I'd be more likely to use the f/2.8 of the 14).

In the end, maybe the 12-24 is the best choice for me, but the DA 14 looks nice enough to me on paper that I want to give it every opportunity to prove itself -- I still haven't seen any decisive images. Thanks for taking the time to share your opinion.
 
The DA 12-24 is by far and away the sharpest of them all, also at
smaller apertures too. It's a very good lens, probably the best of
all the current DA zooms. The DA 16-45 does fall off at the very
extreme cornerss at f4.0, but improves rapidly at f5.6 and is
excellent at f8.0.
The 12-24 does indeed look the sharpest, though at 12 mm the
distortion doesn't compare favorably to the
DA 14. The 16-45 clearly looks the worst (matching my experience),
but in my experience with the lens, the corners don't recover, even
stopped down.
The DA 14 never seems to get as sharp as the DA 12-24 f stop for f
stop. I personally wouldn't consider one myself, the DA 12-24 is
more useful on all counts except for the extra stop.
--
Richard Day - 'Carpe Diem!'
Gloucester UK
I would definitely opt for the 12-24, except that it's a little
bigger, a little more expensive, and a little slower -- I would
really only use it at the wide end, so I'd rather have the prime,
if the sharpness can hold up, at least when stopped down.

Any test shots of the DA 14 at f5.6 or f8?
Here you go:

DA 14 @ f5.6
http://www.zen70100.zen.co.uk/jpgfiles/lens%20tests/[email protected]
DA 14 @ f8.0
http://www.zen70100.zen.co.uk/jpgfiles/lens%20tests/[email protected]

DA 12-24 (12mm) @ f5.6
http://www.zen70100.zen.co.uk/jpgfiles/lens%20tests/DA12-24@12_f5-6.jpg
DA 12-24 (12mm) @ f8.0
http://www.zen70100.zen.co.uk/jpgfiles/lens%20tests/DA12-24@12_f8.jpg

DA 12-24 (24mm) @ f5.6
http://www.zen70100.zen.co.uk/jpgfiles/lens%20tests/DA12-24@24_f5.6.jpg
DA 12-24 (24mm) @ f8.0
http://www.zen70100.zen.co.uk/jpgfiles/lens%20tests/DA12-24@24_f8.jpg

These are part of a series of tests I have done on all the current Pentax DA lenses including the Limiteds. I shall be creating a website devoted to this and other future Pentax items.

The tests are not just of brick walls! I have many other "real world" shots as well, but brick walls are good to judge lens sharpness, distortion, and vignetting. As you can imagine, there is a huge number of images and the website will take up a considerable amount of space and bandwidth!
--
Richard Day - 'Carpe Diem!'
Gloucester UK
 
I'm looking for the sharpest wideangle lens that I can get in
Pentax mount. I currently have the 16-45, but despite its good
reputation, I can't help but be disappointed by its sharpness at
16mm, even stopped down.

My main question is whether or not the DA 14mm would be a
significant improvement -- this lens seems to have a mixed
reputation. I know the 12-24 and upcoming 16-50 would likely show
an improvement, but they are a little larger than I was hoping for.
I agonized over the decision to get the 12-24 vs. the 14. It was the 2.8 speed that made my decision and I have never regreted the decision.

I don't have 100% crops available and no time right now to make one but some image samples are at: http://www.pbase.com/frumsimchasphoto/wide_angle
All done with DS hand held or braced against a steet light or building.

Be well,

AZ
I'd like to see some 100% crops of the 14 in action to help me
decide. I'd also be open to looking at some 100% crops (especially
corners) of the 16-45 at 16mm -- maybe I just have a bad copy of
the lens. (I've searched the forum and pbase, but mostly have found
web-size samples -- not very useful for determining sharpness).

Thanks
--

'There is an art, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw
yourself at the ground and miss.'Douglas Adams'.



Images at: http://www.pbase.com/frumsimchasphoto
Events at: http://frumsimchasphoto.com
 
These are part of a series of tests I have done on all the current
Pentax DA lenses including the Limiteds. I shall be creating a
website devoted to this and other future Pentax items.
What can one say? Maybe "A truly great service. Thank you!" is appropiate?

regards,

--
Jonas
 
The 12-24 is clearly sharper than the 14mm, even at its
wide open position, imagine if it were stopped down a little.
I hadn't known!
Versatility is nice, but the 24mm long end wouldn't be of much use
to me (I'd be more likely to use the f/2.8 of the 14).
I went to Wellington this weekend. I brought my
14, 21, 31, 43, 77 with me. I didn't use the 21 or 43.

I used the 14 a lot. I took advantage of 2.8. I needed the flare resistance (it was great). The rectilinear correction was great.
It has some CA. Corrected pretty much in PPL with about +30, +30.
It has some PF, though less than I had expected.

The corners are a bit soft, as I suppose you have to expect. As Geoffry
said, focus is a bit of a challenge at f2.8!

--
cheers!

Gunn

-- Get a big lens and get closer™.

http://www.dpreview.pentaxistDS.photoshare.co.nz
http://www.y3m.net/penwik/pmwiki.php/Main/PentaxLensWiki
FAQ: http://www.pentaxuser.org/tiki-index.php

 
Thanks alot! I'll look forward to that Pentax site, whenever you get it up and running.

It looks like though the DA 14 does improve by f/8, the 12-24 is pretty definitively sharper in the corners.
 
I've never seen the DA 14 in the flesh, but the 12-24 seems rather
large to me, and according to the specs the DA 14 is about an inch
shorter, which is enough to make some difference to me. It doesn't
need to be a pancake, but I'd rather it not attract any more
attention than necessary, or be any more ungainly to carry than
necessary.
The DA14 is not small, but it's smaller than the 12-24. Here's the DA70, FA28, DA21 and DA14 in a line-up:



And below is my whole lens kit..

Godfrey

 
Thanks alot! I'll look forward to that Pentax site, whenever you
get it up and running.
I'm trying to fit it in between work and it is taking longer than anticipated, but I hope by the early summer. I hope to include the DA* zooms by then.
It looks like though the DA 14 does improve by f/8, the 12-24 is
pretty definitively sharper in the corners.
They are both excellent lenses. For me the DA 12-24 wins over the DA 14 for the following reasons:

1. 12mm does give quite a large increase in the FOV compared to 14mm
2. A sharper zoom at wide apertures, the "Prime" advantage is gone.
3. A very usable zoom range, plus I "hate" changing lenses.
4. Distortion is easily corrected as it isn't of the "moustache" type.
5. Sharpness can't be recovered except by sacrificing speed, advantage gone.
6. CA and flare is comparable with both lenses.
7. The size difference is not that noticable between the two lenses.
8. Pricing difference is minimal.
9. Build quality is about equal.
10. 14mm doesn't make enough difference in FOV if you already have the DA 16-45.

DA14 advantages:

1. 1 stop faster (but soft)
2. Slightly less distortion, still needs correction under similar conditions.
3. Slighly smaller, the lens hood is smaller too.
4. Slightly less expensive.
5. Interesting if you are a "Prime junkie" ;-)

These are just my opinions, YMMV.
--
Richard Day - 'Carpe Diem!'
Gloucester UK
 
These are part of a series of tests I have done on all the current
Pentax DA lenses including the Limiteds. I shall be creating a
website devoted to this and other future Pentax items.
This sounds like it could be useful to integrate with Craig's lens
database:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=22539556

--
/ Richie - http://www.p-i-x.net
His database is specification based and aimed at older and diverse lenses.

My site will be based on current and very recent Pentax lenses and accessories. It will be performance based, i.e. lots of images at various apertures, and focal lengths for the zooms, plus short review comments and experiences with accessories.

I will be linking in with comments and results on Photodo.
--
Richard Day - 'Carpe Diem!'
Gloucester UK
 

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