EX-S770 Zoom w/ Movie

[wmalllory]

1st I'd like to say: "Great forum." I already learned a great deal yesterday about the EX-770 that I'm considering. Thanks for all the help everyone.

OK... so I'm trying to make a final decision on whether to jump for the EX-S770 now (Costco has a decent deal and of course one of the best return policies around), or wait for the new V7 to go one sale.

My preference is a camera that can replace both my current point and shoot (an old Olympus 3.0 MP that has worked great over the years) and my camcorder (an older Sony 8mm model). Both still and movie would be mostly casual type stuff: family visits, kid's school events, vacations, etc. I shoot very little video as it is now.

The S770 is great for me due to its smaller size, but the V7 still looks plenty small enough not to matter. The 7X optical zoom for stills on the V7 is great, but I've lived for years with a 3x optical zoom so I'm sure 3x on the S770 would be fine in practice for me.

So what it comes down to for me is if the zoom limitations of the S770 in movie mode will be too much to bear. Not being able zoom during filming would be a pain, but I think this would be somewhat mitigated if the S770 can use optical and digital zoom before starting movie mode. With 7.0 MP being reduced to (basically) 640x480 in movie mode, I figure the extra digital zoom should (theoretically) have little to no quality impact in video mode and allow for greater than 3x zoom with no real no drawbacks.

So, can the S770 utilize the digital zoom capability when taking video if it's set that way just before recording? And if so, does the video quality remain mostly unaffected?

 

[docpregodc]

Second question from the top.

http://faq.casio.com/faq/exilim/faq_type_b.php?PRODUCT=EXILIM%20EX-S770&CATEGORY=Movie

Digital zoom is sure to look very bad, there is only so much you can do by scaling up pixels.

 

[wmalllory]

Second question from the top.

http://faq.casio.com/faq/exilim/faq_type_b.php?PRODUCT=EXILIM%20EX-S770&CATEGORY=Movie

Ah, thanks for the link to the FAQ. So I can still use digital zoom during video record. That would mitigate things a bit. Especially if the optical zoom amount is left alone when movie mode is started.

Does anyone understand the following 2nd part of the zoom answer from the FAQ:

"You can use Short Movie Mode or Past Movie Mode to start recording before the shutter button is pressed, but anything that happens during operation of digital zoom is not recorded."

Not having the camera, I didn't understand that part.

Digital zoom is sure to look very bad, there is only so much you
can do by scaling up pixels.

I understand. But the question is whether the digital zoom during movie mode is working from the raw CCD data or the first converted video resolution data. So is it:

7.2 MP -> digital zoom -> less than 7.2 MP -> video convert -> 300 KP

or is it:

7.2 MP -> video convert -> 300 KP -> digital zoom -> ugly 300 KP

If it's the first one, the converted video image could still look quite good since the effective CCD size after digital zoom would still be larger than standard NTSC video resolution.

 

[BigMax]

I don't do much with video. So I tried doing the digital zoom with the s770. It's sort of ok up to half max zoom, but then it gets pretty nasty. I'd say not quite as bad as digital zoom on stills, but not great. You should take a memory card into a store, shoot some video, take the card home, and see what you think.

It sounds like the v7 will be much better for movies with zoom, and stereo to boot. I love the s770, but if you can wait, I'm sure you'll get more features. However, I was trying to think whether I'd swap my s770 for a v7 right now, given the chance, based on what I know so far...and actually I don't think so. I had the z850 too, which is a great camera, but it's the slimness of the s770 that really does it for me (plus the fact that it takes great pictures and has a good iso800 ability). The v7 will likely be better in several ways than the s770, but it's not as slim--the ultimate pocketability is a factor for me, but may not be for you. If not, then maybe you should wait.

The other thing I don't like is the v7 brings back the function wheel. I didn't like that on the z850...it kept getting moved in my pocket and sometimes I'd be taking a movie when I meant to snap a shot, etc. The s770 has a fantastic panel menu, made possible by the extra wide lcd. This is the system of choice for me.

I thought with Costco you could return it at any time for any reason. So maybe you could get an s770, and return it when the v7 comes out--?

 

[digicampro]

I thought with Costco you could return it at any time for any
reason. So maybe you could get an s770, and return it when the v7
comes out--?

BigMax,

That's just wrong. Please refrain from encouraging others to scam companies that have a great return policy. I like the fact that if my camera is broken or if I'm not satisfied with it that I can return it. But if someone buys it with the intention of returning it when a new model comes out (i.e. a FREE upgrade) then that is wrong. It's that type of short-sighted and self-centered thinking that will ultimately make good companies like Costco make it more difficult to return goods.

I enjoy my benefits as a Costco Member. Let's act like members and not like scam artists.

digi

 

[BigMax]

I thought with Costco you could return it at any time for any
reason. So maybe you could get an s770, and return it when the v7
comes out--?

BigMax,

That's just wrong. Please refrain from encouraging others to scam
companies that have a great return policy. I like the fact that if
my camera is broken or if I'm not satisfied with it that I can
return it. But if someone buys it with the intention of returning
it when a new model comes out (i.e. a FREE upgrade) then that is
wrong. It's that type of short-sighted and self-centered thinking
that will ultimately make good companies like Costco make it more
difficult to return goods.

I enjoy my benefits as a Costco Member. Let's act like members and
not like scam artists.

digi

You know, I agree with you, and it was wrong of me to mention that. I just remembered some folks on this forum many months ago discussing doing just that, and the gist then seemed that if Costco had that policy, it was ok. This was in relation to getting the 750 before the 850 came out or when the 850 had problems. example:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1015&message=18427292&q=costco+750+850&qf=m

Sorry about that.

 

[wmalllory]

Thanks BigMax for doing that test with digital zoom. It sounds like the digital zoom must be occurring after conversion to video resolution. I agree that I probably need to see it in action for myself to know for sure. Unfortunately, the display model at Costco does not power up, so I can't check it there.

I think I'll go ahead and pick up the S770 tomorrow at Costco and try it over the weekend. If it works out for me, I'll keep it. If not, I'll return it Monday and wait for the V7 (or something else?). I agree with digicampro that keeping the S770 until the V7 comes out is pushing the Costco return policy envelope a bit too much. I'm more than happy to pay a bit more at Costco (compared to online) for peace of mind in case the camera ever breaks. And trying it out over the weekend and returning it if it doesn't do everything I need it to seems in line to me as well.

Thanks again for the info.

 

[Dale Soelter]

Normally, I might agree, but....

While in the local "Business" Costco (don't know if they have these nationwide, but here in Seattle, there is one branch dedicated to business users which stocks fewer consumer goods, and more business oriented supplies - and only refurb cameras, computers and electronics) yesterday looking at the refurbished Ipods, the electronics specialist told us that they have an open policy regarding upgrades of the ipods, and thus always have a ready supply of refurbs. If abuse of their policy became too blatant, I suppose they would adopt the same six month limit they have applied to computer returns, but evidently haven't felt the need to do so.

They simply guarantee satisfaction. I returned an S500 which I really wasn't happy with, bought a little Pentax Optio which turned out to be even worse, and am now the happy owner of an s770. Someone else probably benefited from a good deal on the other two cameras as refurbs, and I doubt that Costco lost a dime in the process.

Applying the term "fraud" is a bit harsh. I'd call it simply taking full advantage of a policy that is not in any way discouraged.

 

[digicampro]

Normally, I might agree, but....

While in the local "Business" Costco (don't know if they have these
nationwide, but here in Seattle, there is one branch dedicated to
business users which stocks fewer consumer goods, and more business
oriented supplies - and only refurb cameras, computers and
electronics) yesterday looking at the refurbished Ipods, the
electronics specialist told us that they have an open policy
regarding upgrades of the ipods, and thus always have a ready
supply of refurbs. If abuse of their policy became too blatant, I
suppose they would adopt the same six month limit they have applied
to computer returns, but evidently haven't felt the need to do so.

They simply guarantee satisfaction. I returned an S500 which I
really wasn't happy with, bought a little Pentax Optio which turned
out to be even worse, and am now the happy owner of an s770.
Someone else probably benefited from a good deal on the other two
cameras as refurbs, and I doubt that Costco lost a dime in the
process.

Applying the term "fraud" is a bit harsh. I'd call it simply
taking full advantage of a policy that is not in any way
discouraged.

It's very easy to justify it as just an act of 'exercising the return policy', especially if it works in your favor. Just because a company extends to it's members a very generous return policy and/or sells refurb items (and btw, not ALL returned items are sold as refurb), it does not mean the policy should be abused. What do you think will happen when more and more people exercise the 'benefit' of returning it because they are not satisfied?

If you don't remember, let me remind you. Computers used to have the standard "if not satisfied return it" policy. They changed that to 6 months. The point? The policy can change. Abuse it and it will change for sure.

Get it?

 

[kindaconfusedguy]

I am also looking to buy a new ultra slim camera. I have the Canon A95 that I have liked, but it is SLOW taking pictures and "kinda" bulky to carry around.

I saw the casion EX S770 late last year and thought it was awsome. Now I have just sold my canon (for $175..... PERFECT CONDITION. With a few memory cards, carrying case and all) and need a camera fast.

SO, is the S770 one of the better ULTRA THIN cameras around? And what is the difference between this and the Z750 the Z850 and the NEW EX-V7?

I AM CONFUSED NOW?
Thanks for any info and help

 

[BigMax]

I have the s770 and love it. I've posted numerous items, pictures, and some comparisons (had the z850 for awhile, at the same time). Search this forum for s770 to come up with some.

The s770 is very fast and has excellent picture quality. On large scale zoom-in in photoshop programs, you can see a little drop in detail compared to the z850 (and probably same as z750). Here's a post with some comparisons:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1015&message=21492096

However, I've noted before, that I think the s shots just somehow "look better" than the z shots. One reason might be that they tend to be "warmer" at least with the cameras I've had. Also, I think the grain or noise that is always present to some degree, and to a large degree in high iso shots, is more pleasant to look at in the s versus the z.

I was pleasantly surprised to find that the s770 has a pretty good iso 800 mode for low light shooting. Although you can only choose up to 400 directly, if you set the camera for anti-shake on, and flash off, it will often go to iso 800 as needed. The z850 had really bad noise reduction processing at iso 800 and iso 1600, which I considered totally unusable. Here are some comparisons:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1015&message=21494993

The s lacks some manual controls--most noticeably manual exposure. I like to take long exposure shots sometimes, and the z's capability to set it up to 60 seconds was great. The s has only gone as long as 1/2 second on it's own, and I've found a way to make custom best shots to get it up to 2 seconds. But if you're not into long exposures, that's not such a big deal. Most other settings can be chosen with the s770, like iso, flash, focus, EV compensation etc. And you can have the same active onscreen histogram as the z, which is a truly nice feature of Casio's.

Probably my favorite feature of the s770 is it's wide screen lcd. It also takes widescreen shots and movies, but I haven't used this much. But the wide lcd allows for an on-screen panel menu that is much easier (to my mind) than the function wheel of the z's. This was identified as a plus also by this reviewer, who gave the s a 9 out of 10:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/digital-cameras/review/2007/01/12/Casio-Exilim-EX-S770/p1

The s770 uses a smaller sensor than the z's, which is probably why it has slightly less resolution. But this may also contribute to the better looking grain of the pictures. The upcoming V7 also uses a small sensor--probably the same one as the s770. I believe it also has the wide lcd. But it has a function wheel, which to my mind is a step backward (mine kept getting turned in my pocket). The higher optical zoom promised to be great, and I think the non-moving lens and sliding cover will be really good features. And it brings back manual control of shutter, and longer times (altho not as long as the z850 had). But, as I noted elsewhere, I doubt I'd swap if it was here right now, because the s is so darn slim--and that makes it just that much easier to slip into a tight pocket.

Yet another interesting thing I've noticed about the s770 is that it seems to have a pan focus mode that works with still images (which the manual denies is the case!) Here are some comparison shots regarding that:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1015&message=21684159

Bottom line is, it's a great camera and takes great pictures. Here are some of my favorites:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1015&message=21370587

Hope this helps.

I am also looking to buy a new ultra slim camera. I have the Canon
A95 that I have liked, but it is SLOW taking pictures and "kinda"
bulky to carry around.

I saw the casion EX S770 late last year and thought it was awsome.
Now I have just sold my canon (for $175..... PERFECT CONDITION.
With a few memory cards, carrying case and all) and need a camera
fast.

SO, is the S770 one of the better ULTRA THIN cameras around? And
what is the difference between this and the Z750 the Z850 and the
NEW EX-V7?

I AM CONFUSED NOW?
Thanks for any info and help