K10D noise/bands/stripes

[photo_mom]

Hi all!

It will be interesting to see how long this post lasts, because it's NOT about a problem. I'm thrilled with the performance I've gotten so far with my K10D. We waited too long and expected too much from this camera to let a few threads about bad results not be opposed with some positive results.

The following were all taken in handheld, low-light, AWB, and processed using Pentax Photolab 3 (a tedious and aggrevating process, but well worth it). I corrected the white balance and saved as 8-bit TIFF. I'm sure the results would have been even better if I'd saved them as 16-bit TIFF but PSE3 doesn't work with 16-bit and I haven't gotten CS2 yet. In PSE3 I resized for the web and applied PowerRetouche USM, saved to high quality JPG. The EXIF is still attached to the originals (the links) but Smugmug seems to strip it from any other sizes.

I make no claims about how good these are photographically, compositional, etc. Just that they don't show the noise problem. I haven't seen it in any of the photos I've taken. I've looked at these on my laptop here at home and on my CRT at work.

DFA 100mm 800 ISO, 1/8s



http://tsj-photo.smugmug.com/photos/111988029-O.jpg

DFA 100mm 800 ISO 1/90s



http://tsj-photo.smugmug.com/photos/111991668-O.jpg

DFA 100mm 1100 ISO 1/10s



http://tsj-photo.smugmug.com/photos/112248706-O.jpg

A*300mm 1600 ISO 1/45s



http://tsj-photo.smugmug.com/photos/112620178-O-1.jpg

As far as front/back focus, mine seems to be right on the money using Sam's test.
FA50/1.4 800 ISO 1/1500s





--
Tracy
10:12 AM

 

[leopold]

Hi photomom,

great to see someone happy with it's K10D finally,i'm with you on this one,i don't see anything wrong they all looks great.Personnally i don't care for the ISO 1600 because when i will bought a K10D i will use it from ISO100 to 400 max(like my DS2).
Thank you for posting something positive)

Take care.

PS:BTW how is ISO 100 and 200 doing for a change.

leopold
pentax forever

 

[Quietly Confident]

Hi all!

It will be interesting to see how long this post lasts, because
it's NOT about a problem. I'm thrilled with the performance I've
gotten so far with my K10D. We waited too long and expected too
much from this camera to let a few threads about bad results not be
opposed with some positive results.

The IQ issue seems to be gaining some consistency now - the 100iso picture shows regular 'streaks' (or banding, or whatever), which become more pronounced at 1600iso.

It does seem that the K10's limit is about 800iso - which still exhibits a fair amount of noise, just not the regular streaks of noise.

Hardly the image processing PRIME miracle that was being promised in here pre-release

 

[photo_mom]

Hi photomom,
great to see someone happy with it's K10D finally,i'm with you on
this one,i don't see anything wrong they all looks
great.Personnally i don't care for the ISO 1600 because when i will
bought a K10D i will use it from ISO100 to 400 max(like my DS2).
Thank you for posting something positive)

Take care.

PS:BTW how is ISO 100 and 200 doing for a change.

Thanks Leo! I hope the positives take off as much as the negatives have.

It's been raining here everyday since I got my camera except yesterday, and then I was at work most of the day. Today is gorgeous and I hope to get out in a bit, as soon as my daughter decides to get her act in gear. So I've only gotten to really test out the high ISO type shots. I did take a few 400 and 100 photos after work yesterday and they are exceptional to me!

--
Tracy
10:30 AM

 

[PabloF]

Hi Tracy, thanks for the positive note

The following were all taken in handheld, low-light, AWB, and
processed using Pentax Photolab 3 (a tedious and aggrevating
process, but well worth it).

I definitely agree on Pentax Photo Lab being well worth it: I still have version 2.1 (no K10D yet :-( ) but I've always found that the raw conversion done with this software is always spot on, and needs very little tweaking. Sure, it's a little awkward, but it's quite workable.

I corrected the white balance and
saved as 8-bit TIFF. I'm sure the results would have been even
better if I'd saved them as 16-bit TIFF but PSE3 doesn't work with
16-bit and I haven't gotten CS2 yet.

That's strange, I can use PSE3 in tiff 16 bit, but not all the options work.

--
Pablo
GMT+1hr
http://www.pbase.com/pablof

 

[Darren M]

Hi Tracy. Glad you are enjoying. The shots look good and I am sure there will be many more to come. Have fun.

--



http://www.trekearth.com/members/Darren/photos/
http://www.darrenmelrose.com

Photos or pixels. Make sure you are looking at the right thing.
Have camera, will travel

 

[KjetilV]

It's good to hear you're happy with your new camera Tracy, and that you have actually managed to get outside to take some pictures with it : )! It's more than I have managed to do - to my defense it is raining outside (never-mind that would be a great test for the weather sealing... : )

Your ISO 1600 shot of the milk carton shows fairly strong vertical stripes though - through variations in color. It seems a lot of people are unable to see it for some reason I'm not able to explain.

For me personally ISO1600 is nothing more than an emergency mode - it was on the DS, and it will be on the K10D - and now that I have SR I see even less use for it. That being said, since there does seem to be a real issue, it is something Pentax should look into, and perhaps it will be possible to make it better with a firmware update in the future. Streaks at ISO1600 or not, it's still a great camera - but we're all looking for perfection (even if it isn't justified : ) - so that the camera will be put under hard scrutiny is hardly a surprise.

Cheers! and thanks for posting,
Kjetil / http://www.fotologue.jp/kvad

 

[ao1657]

I'm thrilled with the performance I've
gotten so far with my K10D.

First, let me say, "Congrats."

We waited too long and expected too
much from this camera to let a few threads about bad results not be
opposed with some positive results.

I for one take some people's nagative views as a barometer of popularity. (If there was no negative views, I would even worry whether the camera has enough attention from poeple in the first place.)

Just that they don't show the noise problem.
I haven't seen it in any of the photos I've taken.

Thanks for sharing the nice photos. These high ISO photos look beautiful and useable to me, but some people might find noise on the pics though. Since people have a different tolerance for noise, I think it's none of other people's business whether or not someone enjoys particular photos.

Susumu

 

[Don Allison]

All clear to my eye and monitor. No banding or streaking down here in Carolina. Let's move on. Cheers. Don
--



'Nothing could-be-finah-than-to-be-in-Carolina-in-the-morninnnnnn...'

 

[tknterry]

Thanks Tracy. Im glad you are enjoying your camera and its images! Thats what its all about.
--
---Terry http://photostuff.org

 

[photo_mom]

Hi all!

It will be interesting to see how long this post lasts, because
it's NOT about a problem. I'm thrilled with the performance I've
gotten so far with my K10D. We waited too long and expected too
much from this camera to let a few threads about bad results not be
opposed with some positive results.

The IQ issue seems to be gaining some consistency now - the 100iso
picture shows regular 'streaks' (or banding, or whatever), which
become more pronounced at 1600iso.

It does seem that the K10's limit is about 800iso - which still
exhibits a fair amount of noise, just not the regular streaks of
noise.

Hardly the image processing PRIME miracle that was being promised
in here pre-release

Hi George!

But I think that's the real issue here. The PRIME/noise solution was built up to such pinnacles of expectation that everyone's looking to find problems. I just don't see the noise in the photos that are being called noisy.

Which 100ISO picture did you see with streaks?

BTW, I really enjoyed your magnet/fair thread and photos. That was a much needed smile during a boring day at work yesterday where I was one of 4 people that showed up!

--
Tracy
10:50 AM

 

[photo_mom]

I definitely agree on Pentax Photo Lab being well worth it: I still
have version 2.1 (no K10D yet :-( ) but I've always found that the
raw conversion done with this software is always spot on, and needs
very little tweaking. Sure, it's a little awkward, but it's quite
workable.

Thanks Pablo!

You're right about it being a great converter. I much prefer the BibblePro workflow and they're working on an upgrade that should be available next month for supporting K10D files. But Photolab is working just fine. I think you can get the upgrade from the Pentax site without having purchased the K10D.

That's strange, I can use PSE3 in tiff 16 bit, but not all the
options work.

Yes, but it's the options that don't work that I miss. The version of PowerRetouche tools that I purchased are all 8-bit as well. But since Bibble has added their clone/heal tool I'm not missing PSE3 not being 16-bit as much as I used to miss it. ;-D

--
Tracy
10:57 AM

 

[photo_mom]

Hi Tracy. Glad you are enjoying. The shots look good and I am
sure there will be many more to come. Have fun.

Thanks Darren! It was your frustration posts in txbonds thread that pushed me to start this thread. I had really been hesitant about doing it because I don't like to get in the middle of the controversy. But I just had to try to balance it some.

--
Tracy
11:02 AM

 

[honza_pl]

Your ISO 1600 shot of the milk carton shows fairly strong vertical
stripes though - through variations in color. It seems a lot of
people are unable to see it for some reason I'm not able to explain.

I see this pattern too, it's visible at first look in shadows in top of image

 

[Nicols]

Your ISO 1600 shot of the milk carton shows fairly strong vertical
stripes though - through variations in color. It seems a lot of
people are unable to see it for some reason I'm not able to explain.

I would't say strong, but they are there.

It's true, after having seen these structures of colour noise in some fotos, it's easy to find them.

In the 1100 and 800 shots I can't see any. Good shots, with a lot of contrast and shadow detail.
I think the K10D will be fine for my needs.

Best regards

 

[wll287622]

I did some testing that I posted a few days ago when I got my K10D from the Del Mar show in San Diego.

IMHO 1600 iso is just great, and the way the photos pop is second to non.

wll

 

[LaRee]

whew I am glad to see that I am not the only one that is more pleased than disappointed. I am sure there are a whole lot of people that are going to be very pleased with the k10d.

I also have to say, nice cross stitch and a handsome dog. I've been working much more than usual, yesterday I really did not want to go to work, I wanted to play with my new camera. Too bad I have to work to help my oldest through college and two more to go. Well, and a lens here and there for me. My 77mm limited is on its way to me and I can't wait to work with that lens!

Thanks for the positive post. I have some shots I took inside the USS Midway (aircraft carrier) that I am extremely pleased with. It was dark with funky lighting in the ship. I've thought about posting them but didn't think they would be of interest to anyone but me. I am tickled with them though.
--
LaRee
http://www.laree.smugmug.com/

 

[photo_mom]

It's good to hear you're happy with your new camera Tracy, and that
you have actually managed to get outside to take some pictures with
it : )! It's more than I have managed to do - to my defense it is
raining outside (never-mind that would be a great test for the
weather sealing... : )

Thanks KjetilV!

I can thoroughly sympathize with the rain frustration. It's was worse than buying new telescope equipment and then it being cloudy. In that case you can at least go to sleep. LOL!

Hope you get some sun soon so you can go try your new camera!

Your ISO 1600 shot of the milk carton shows fairly strong vertical
stripes though - through variations in color. It seems a lot of
people are unable to see it for some reason I'm not able to explain.

Where? I am not seeing it either on my monitor or when it's printed. Not doubting you, I just want to know what everyone's talking about when they're saying there is noise. Being that it's not being seen by everyone, could it be a monitor refresh rate issue? Or is it that the type/level of noise that is acceptable to different people varies?

For me personally ISO1600 is nothing more than an emergency mode -
it was on the DS, and it will be on the K10D - and now that I have
SR I see even less use for it. That being said, since there does
seem to be a real issue, it is something Pentax should look into,
and perhaps it will be possible to make it better with a firmware
update in the future. Streaks at ISO1600 or not, it's still a great
camera - but we're all looking for perfection (even if it isn't
justified : ) - so that the camera will be put under hard scrutiny
is hardly a surprise.

I don't use it regularly at all either. But it is a nice fallback to have available and to be prepared for dealing with it when you do have to use it. You're right about the scrutiny. I think it's reaching hysteria levels as Darren said earlier. Oh well, such is the life on DPR when a new camera is released. ;-D

--
Tracy
11:14 AM

 

[Jan Moren]

Your ISO 1600 shot of the milk carton shows fairly strong vertical
stripes though - through variations in color. It seems a lot of
people are unable to see it for some reason I'm not able to explain.

I would't say strong, but they are there.

It's true, after having seen these structures of colour noise in
some fotos, it's easy to find them.

And to be fair, I've seen them in some high-ISO shots with my Canon 350D as well.

Nothing I'm worried about; they clean off when you do chroma noise removal anyhow.

--
Japan: http://www.lucs.lu.se/people/jan.moren/log/current.html
Images: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jannem/

 

[JensR]

Hi Tracy!

Glad you are happy with your K10D.

The ISO 1600 milk shot looks -well- like a pushed ISO 3200 exposure on my DS. The others look fine or even great to me.

In that "trees in front of sky", I'd clone away the roof in the lower left and wahlla nice beautiful shot

Cheers
Jens

--

'Well, 'Zooming with your feet' is usually a stupid thing as zoom rings are designed for hands.' (Me, 2006)
http://www.jensroesner.de/
--=! Condemning proprietary batteries since 1976 !=--