color profile issue

[the Dandy]

Hey !

There's one thing that I don't understand with color management:

I calibrated my monitior with " Spider" and created a profile.
Let's say that my new profile name is " Spyder-nov-2006 "

Now when I download photos from my camera or open up an existing photo, I'm asked to choose a profile for that photo.
What shall I choose ? RGB 1998 or " Spyder-nov-2006 " and why ?

I don't get it right now....

Thanx for helping

 

[Petteri Sulonen]

Certainly not the profile you've created -- that's for your display. Use whatever profile you used to shoot them (usually sRGB or Adobe RGB).

Petteri
--
[ http://www.prime-junta.net/ ]
[ http://p-on-p.blogspot.com/ ]

 

[Wayne Larmon]

Hey !

There's one thing that I don't understand with color management:

I calibrated my monitior with " Spider" and created a profile.
Let's say that my new profile name is " Spyder-nov-2006 "

Now when I download photos from my camera or open up an existing
photo, I'm asked to choose a profile for that photo.
What shall I choose ? RGB 1998 or " Spyder-nov-2006 " and why ?

I don't get it right now....

The monitor profile that the Spyder software creates will typically be used twice. Once by a "loader" program that will use it to adjust the display to a known state. You should see this loader program your Windows Startup file (for Windows--I don't know how Macs handle startup issues) And you should not see Adobe Gamma (or any other profile loader program) in your Startup folder. You only want the Spyder program.

The second place it will be used is by color managed programs. Some, like Adobe Photoshop and PhotoShop Elements use it automatically. You don't have to do anything. Other color managed programs aren't as smart and you need to root around in "Preferences" or "Options" settings and find where they handle color management stuff. You will then need to tell it to use your "Spyder-nov-2006" profile. And remember to go back to this dialog whenever you re-calibrate, say to "Spyder-dec-2006."

Look at the color management tutorials that are listed on the right side of http://www.drycreekphoto.com/ This should fill in the blanks.

It doesn't help that programs are inconsistent in how they are configured for color management. And that a lot of programs don't do color management at all. Hopefully, this will be smoothed over as time goes on.

Wayne

 

[dinoSnake]

Hey !

There's one thing that I don't understand with color management:

I calibrated my monitior with " Spider" and created a profile.
Let's say that my new profile name is " Spyder-nov-2006 "

Now when I download photos from my camera or open up an existing
photo, I'm asked to choose a profile for that photo.
What shall I choose ? RGB 1998 or " Spyder-nov-2006 " and why ?

I don't get it right now....

Thanx for helping

Your Color Management settings are not correct. As previously noted you should open the file using the profile that was used (or implied, if no profile is embedded) during the creation process. If you are using Photoshop and it is asking you to choose a profile, and one of the profiles available is the Spyder-created monitor profile, please reset your Color Management settings in the Color Settings page. For most situations you should choose either of 3 profiles for RGB default - sRGB, Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB.

Each has a benefit, each has "negatives" as well. If you use Photoshop mostly to edit, or view, your digital camera photos it will be easiest to set Photoshop's RGB default to the same as your camera's default color space. Make sure you select "Preserve Embedded Profiles" in all Color Management Policies dropdowns, along with turning on all warnings for Profile Mismatches and Missing Profiles.

The Spyder's profile will be used by Photoshop when you soft proof via the View / Proof Setup option.

Unless you are analyzing profile color changes via a Grainger Rainbow, you (probably) will never use the monitor's profile directly during an edit or creation process from within Photoshop.

 

[the Dandy]

Thank you thank you thank you.

I get it now .
It can be a bit confusing at first, but I understand now.

Thanks again.

 

[Johanfoto]

Your Color Management settings are not correct. As previously
noted you should open the file using the profile that was used (or
implied, if no profile is embedded) during the creation process.
If you are using Photoshop and it is asking you to choose a
profile, and one of the profiles available is the Spyder-created
monitor profile, please reset your Color Management settings in the
Color Settings page.

Nonsense. Your monitor profile is just another RGB profile, so it will always come up as one of the choices if you open an RGB file. You shouldn't choose it, but the fact that it's possible doesn't mean a thing and doesn't mean you have to reset anything.

For most situations you should choose either
of 3 profiles for RGB default - sRGB, Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB.

Nonsense again. You should use the color space that the camera has used. Most likely, that will be sRGB. If your camera doesn't offer a choice, it's definitely sRGB. If your camera does offer a choice, choose what you set in the camera. You should never choose ProPhotoRGB for an 8 bits JPEG. That is only an option if you work with RAW files, not with JPEGs. And the fact that the OP gets this question from Photoshop in the first place, proves that he is opening a JPEG, not a RAW file.

Each has a benefit, each has "negatives" as well.

There is no benefit in choosing the wrong profile. If your camera was set to sRGB and you choose AdobeRGB (or vice versa) the colors will be wrong, period. If you choose ProPhotoRGB the colors will be VERY wrong.

The Spyder's profile will be used by Photoshop when you soft proof
via the View / Proof Setup option.

Not only then. The Syper profile is used by Photoshop to adjust the images for your monitor's color space when you view them. That happens not only during a 'soft proof', it happens to any image you view in Photoshop at any time.

Unless you are analyzing profile color changes via a Grainger
Rainbow, you (probably) will never use the monitor's profile
directly during an edit or creation process from within Photoshop.

Correct. Another moment you will use it, is if you make screendumps, but in case of camera files it's unlikely you will use it directly.

--
Johan
http://www.johanfoto.com

 

[Thom Hogan]

The second place it will be used is by color managed programs.
Some, like Adobe Photoshop and PhotoShop Elements use it
automatically. You don't have to do anything. Other color
managed programs aren't as smart and you need to root around in
"Preferences" or "Options" settings and find where they handle
color management stuff.

Correct, but just to be clear, those options would almost always refer to "monitor profile" settings, and would almost always be on Windows systems (the Mac OS and software that runs on it is "color aware"). Some older Nikon software under Windows, for example, has places to set both a "monitor profile" and a working Color Space. You shouldn't be using the calibration profile you create anywhere other than in something that is clearly labeled as being for monitor management.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
editor, Nikon DSLR Report
author, Complete Guides: D50, D70, D100, D200, D1 series, D2h, D2x, S2 Pro
http://www.bythom.com

 

[Wayne Larmon]

The second place it will be used is by color managed programs.
Some, like Adobe Photoshop and PhotoShop Elements use it
automatically. You don't have to do anything. Other color
managed programs aren't as smart and you need to root around in
"Preferences" or "Options" settings and find where they handle
color management stuff.

Correct, but just to be clear, those options would almost always
refer to "monitor profile" settings, and would almost always be on
Windows systems (the Mac OS and software that runs on it is "color
aware"). Some older Nikon software under Windows, for example, has
places to set both a "monitor profile" and a working Color Space.

I was vague because I didn't know how all color managed programs dealt with specifying the monitor profile. I do know Breeze Browser and it is similar to what you described for Nikon software. Under "File/Preferences/Image Display." The bottom of the pane is where the color management stuff is set in BreezeBrowser:



"06-10-27_1_Monitor_Profile" is the profile from my most recent monitor calibration. When I recalibrate, I have to remember to go back to this dialog box in BreezeBrowser and change it to refer to the new profile.

PhotoShop doesn't require doing this, because it does this automatically (based on the monitor profile that is set as the Windows default monitor profile. Typically, monitor calibration software will configure the profile that they write to be the Windows Default profile so that programs can automatically use it. (If the programs are smart like PhotoShop is.) You can see this somewhere in the "Settings/Advanced" section of your video driver configuration dialogs. There should be a "Color Management" tab.)

This is what I was meant when I referred to programs that handle color management inconsistently. A PhotoShop user that then used BreezeBrowser might not think to look for this dialog to set the monitor profile, because your don't do this in PS. Conversely, somebody that started with BreezeBrowser (or apparently, Nikon software) might be confused when they first saw PhotoShop and couldn't find the dialog box to set the monitor profile. Which is undoubtedly why some people get confused and set their working space to be their monitor profile in PhotoShop (which is almost always the wrong thing to do!)

The devil is always in the details.

Wayne

 

[old_dog]

I calibrated my monitior with " Spider" and created a profile.
Let's say that my new profile name is " Spyder-nov-2006 "

One suggestion. Always use the same name for the monitor profile you create so that you do not have to tell Windows to use the new one. When I profile using my Spyder, I use the same name and overlay the old one. If you name it something different each time then you will have to find all software that contains a pointer to it and change it to the new one.

Rollin