R2, R5 or R10

[swiss_alain]

after I've read here and everywhere else all about the future of R1 and as a business man myself it becomes clear that sony will continue the cyber shot "bridge" cameras.

The question is just how they will continue and when.

I don't know sony's marketing strategy but it could be that they planed to first release the alpha series and present this camera at photokina. If they would present two innovations they would reduce the marketing effect.

The reason why they will continue is because the camera concept is innovative and sony is an innovative company. If they would just stick to the alpha they would loose their name for innovative products... and they won't! Because sony is at first a major marketing company... and they know very well how they have to position themselfes.

If the next camera will be an R2 with all the desired improvements.. speed, autofocus, etc.. I doubt.

The next release of this kind of camera will most probably come with major improvements and changes. The direction it will take... i don't know. It could go multiple ways:

• smaller.. with similar performance
• more flexible... exchange lenses
• more powerful... 12MP
• more innovative.. new toys..

....or a mixture of the above...

The future will show the road.... but im 99% sure that this road does not end with R1!

 

[DigitalMaven]

I have opined elsewhere that I think of the R1 as a "Proof of Concept" camera and that while I do not expect a R2 to be forthcoming, I do expect that Sony will use some of the R1 technology in a future camera. My own leanings (i.e., hopes) are that it would be a 10 mp or 12 mp interchangeable lens camera with a highly refined OLED electronic viewfinder, (plus a tilt & swivel viewer, and of course the live-view capability of the R1. Such a camera could really shake up the market. Someone is going to bring a camera like this to market within the next couple of years, if not Sony, then maybe Olympus - next to Sony they seem to be the closest in terms of technology.

--
When a hammer is your only tool, all problems begin to look like nails.

 

[AAK]

Sometimes I think you give Sony too much credit. They missed the iPod, they missed flat-screen TV. Sony -used- to be known as an innovator.

But Sony also commanded a premium over the rest of the markets for the design and quality of their equipment. No more. Now they have to be price-competitive like everyone else.

The reason I'm being so skeptical is that the F-series (the F828 was the last one) was a breakthrough series. Great cameras all. Extraordinarily innovative (split body, laser AF, night shot, night framing, etc.). The F828 was f/2.0 - 2.8, the F717 was f/2.0 - f/2.4. I wish I had that now! A huge number sold and they were very popular.

That didn't keep Sony from discontinuing them without even telling its customers a single word about it. Kept us hanging on for two years waiting for the mythical F929.

I wish you the very best and sincerely hope that the R1 has a successor and that it is brilliant. I'm still a fan of EVF cameras, and the R1 is a DSLR-Quality EVF camera.

But pardon me if I'm skeptical. I've been down the road before, and it was not fun waiting for the announcement that never came.

And it was even less fun watching that wonderful technology disappear.

after I've read here and everywhere else all about the future of R1
and as a business man myself it becomes clear that sony will
continue the cyber shot "bridge" cameras.

The question is just how they will continue and when.

I don't know sony's marketing strategy but it could be that they
planed to first release the alpha series and present this camera at
photokina. If they would present two innovations they would reduce
the marketing effect.

The reason why they will continue is because the camera concept is
innovative and sony is an innovative company. If they would just
stick to the alpha they would loose their name for innovative
products... and they won't! Because sony is at first a major
marketing company... and they know very well how they have to
position themselfes.

If the next camera will be an R2 with all the desired
improvements.. speed, autofocus, etc.. I doubt.

The next release of this kind of camera will most probably come
with major improvements and changes. The direction it will take...
i don't know. It could go multiple ways:

• smaller.. with similar performance
• more flexible... exchange lenses
• more powerful... 12MP
• more innovative.. new toys..

....or a mixture of the above...

The future will show the road.... but im 99% sure that this road
does not end with R1!

--
=~ AAK - http://www.aakatz.com
=~ Author of the H-Series White Paper
=~ http://www.aakatz.com/h1whitepaper

 

[AAK]

I have opined elsewhere that I think of the R1 as a "Proof of
Concept" camera and that while I do not expect a R2 to be
forthcoming, I do expect that Sony will use some of the R1
technology in a future camera. My own leanings (i.e., hopes) are
that it would be a 10 mp or 12 mp interchangeable lens camera with
a highly refined OLED electronic viewfinder, (plus a tilt & swivel
viewer, and of course the live-view capability of the R1. Such a
camera could really shake up the market.

I would definitely buy that one!

--
=~ AAK - http://www.aakatz.com
=~ Author of the H-Series White Paper
=~ http://www.aakatz.com/h1whitepaper

 

[Meshwork]

...on how well Sony's DSLRs run, whether they can really make an impact on the EOS Canons and the D series Nikons. If they don't make their mark then I feel the Alphas may be slotted in against the cheaper range of the Pentax DSLRs.

However, that outcome might be a good thing for the EVF user, where Sony might again direct their efforts to the EVF large sensor technology. They've done that exceedingly well with the fixed lens R1, and yet there's still room for significant improvements.

Long live the R series Sony.

--
Mesh
Australia
R1, 828
5% lighting, 5% composition. 90% location. Get there.

 

[Bob Blount]

after I've read here and everywhere else all about the future of R1
and as a business man myself it becomes clear that Sony will
continue the cyber shot "bridge" cameras.

Begging to differ but a businessman would recognize that if one R1/R2/R? is sold that is the end of the profit for Sony for that purchase. But sell one cheaper DSLR body and you get a steady stream of profit from ever more expensive glass to that same customer. Why would Sony or any other company sell any camera that would threaten the DSLRs with a bag full of expensive glass?

As an example Canon has deleted RAW, hot shoes, 28mm lenses, the Pro1/Pro? downgrade the "G" line of cameras so much that they are not recognizable. Any non-DSLR camera is being dumbed down in an effort to leave only DSLRs for any photography enthusiasts. Sony is sure to follow Canon's example now that they are in the DSLR business. Don't take in personal since it is only business.

The question is just how they will continue and when.

I don't know sony's marketing strategy but it could be that they
planed to first release the alpha series and present this camera at
photokina. If they would present two innovations they would reduce
the marketing effect.

The reason why they will continue is because the camera concept is
innovative and sony is an innovative company. If they would just
stick to the alpha they would loose their name for innovative
products... and they won't! Because sony is at first a major
marketing company... and they know very well how they have to
position themselfes.

If the next camera will be an R2 with all the desired
improvements.. speed, autofocus, etc.. I doubt.

The next release of this kind of camera will most probably come
with major improvements and changes. The direction it will take...
i don't know. It could go multiple ways:

• smaller.. with similar performance
• more flexible... exchange lenses
• more powerful... 12MP
• more innovative.. new toys..

....or a mixture of the above...

The future will show the road.... but im 99% sure that this road
does not end with R1!

--
Bob,
'There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept.' Ansel Adams
Great Pro1
Casio Z750

 

[Stephen McDonald]

How about adding an optical stabilizer, more zoom (including a lens that will support various telextenders without a special adaptor) and a movie mode?
These are the 3 missing features that resulted in my not buying an R1.
--
Steve McDonald

 

[chuxter]

after I've read here and everywhere else all about the future of R1
and as a business man myself it becomes clear that Sony will
continue the cyber shot "bridge" cameras.

Begging to differ but a businessman would recognize that if one
R1/R2/R? is sold that is the end of the profit for Sony for that
purchase.

I bought the M3367 CU lens, the F32X flash, and the VD1 remote control from Sony. I will at some point prolly buy the tele lens (waiting for price to drop a bit more).

But sell one cheaper DSLR body and you get a steady
stream of profit from ever more expensive glass to that same
customer.

When I buy my D200 or D2X, I won't buy any expensive lenses (I won't have any money left!). Prolly get a moderately priced one and I'll stick with that for years.

Why would Sony or any other company sell any camera that
would threaten the DSLRs with a bag full of expensive glass?

Because they think like you do? But I'm not a "businessman" like you... BWDIK?

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700 & Sony R1
CATS #25
PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htm
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
'I brake for pixels...'

 

[Hektor44]

Boy, you said it all there. I gave away my 828 to my brother expecting a 929 later that year, then waited and waited and it never came.

I have to find a way to get that 828 back...

--
Henry

 

[lynxlea]

aps-c size ccd is good, but price will not help it make a sale
i think sony may design something like 4/3 ccd, with high iso and
r1 like design, affordable price, like $699

will sure make as big sale as 828 &707 as before

--
2006 Lynx Award
Best Body Design:Nikon S10(Swivel screen, 10x, small, highly pocketable)

 

[rogprov]

How about adding an optical stabilizer, more zoom (including a lens
that will support various telextenders without a special adaptor)
and a movie mode?
These are the 3 missing features that resulted in my not buying an R1.
--
Steve McDonald

Then you've missed out on a fine camera. 24-120mm doesn't really need OS, longer zoom would make the camera far too big (it's large enough now) and I don't think many people attracted to this class of camera want movie mode - get a proper video camera.

Roger

 

[AAK]

When I buy my D200 or D2X, I won't buy any expensive lenses (I
won't have any money left!). Prolly get a moderately priced one and
I'll stick with that for years.

No you won't, I promise you. A moderately priced full-function lens might be the 18-200 VR at $700. But, at some point in the not-too-distance future, you'll start asking: "gee, how come I'm not getting great pictures like the other people here. How come mine aren't as sharp and I have some purple fringing?". And you'll discover that what you really need is an 18-70 VR lens (waiting for that one) and a 70-200 f/2.8 VR. Then you'll need at least a 1.4X tele-adapter at $465.00.

Then, of course, you'll find you'll want to use the Nikon CLS system. You haven't had that yet, where the camera can control three separate flash positions. Your flashes can be around the room giving superb even light, without falloff, or used to light from three directions for studio-quality portraits. I started with one SB800 and ended up with three plus the SU800 commander module so I wouldn't get blink from my subjects. We're talking $1600-$1700 in flashes and accessories. I never intended to get into that. But, of course, I did.

The corded multi-function remote (I don't think the wireless one has even been released, and it takes a separate transmitter) costs $129 and that's with only a 2' cord. The 9' extension costs another $63.95

After only nine months, I have almost $8000 invested in my $1700 camera, and trust me, that was NEVER my intent!

But finally, I am getting great pictures.

The big reason is lens lust. Sometimes us digicam guys don't know how good we have it. A similar DSLR version of the R1 lens for the A100 will likely cost more than the entire R1.

The DSLRs are a bonanza to the camera manufacturers. Huge margins, expensive lenses (my last one cost another $1700).

But you're missing the most important part.

If the R2 doesn't come along, you'll just move on to something else, probably from another manufacturer.

But once you have $8000 in accessories, you're tied into a manufacturer. It's an enforced brand-loyalty and it really, really works. I've been thinking of switching to Canon for the last few months (till I got a new D200 that works) but the staggering loss I'd suffer on my current bodies and lenses just overwhelmed me.

They know what they're doing. They know where the money is. They know how to "imprison" their customers

They'll go where the serious money is.

BTW, the only growing segment of the camera market is the DSLR market. And it's cannibalizing the digicam market badly. It's the only place to be today.

--
=~ AAK - http://www.aakatz.com
=~ Author of the H-Series White Paper
=~ http://www.aakatz.com/h1whitepaper

 

[chuxter]

When I buy my D200 or D2X, I won't buy any expensive lenses (I
won't have any money left!). Prolly get a moderately priced one and
I'll stick with that for years.

No you won't, I promise you. A moderately priced full-function lens
might be the 18-200 VR at $700. But, at some point in the
not-too-distance future, you'll start asking: "gee, how come I'm
not getting great pictures like the other people here. How come
mine aren't as sharp and I have some purple fringing?". And you'll
discover that what you really need is an 18-70 VR lens (waiting for
that one) and a 70-200 f/2.8 VR. Then you'll need at least a 1.4X
tele-adapter at $465.00.

I don't like the IQ of the 18-200. I'm thinking about something like one of the 70-300 offerings, although that 70-200 f/2.8 is tempting. I want the D200 for 2 things. First, I have some old Nikon F lenses that I occasionally want to use and they won't work with the D50/70/80 offerings. Next, I like to take pix of motorsports and need a longer lens than the R1 has. That's it. The R1 is better at other jobs.

Then, of course, you'll find you'll want to use the Nikon CLS
system. You haven't had that yet, where the camera can control
three separate flash positions. Your flashes can be around the room
giving superb even light, without falloff, or used to light from
three directions for studio-quality portraits. I started with one
SB800 and ended up with three plus the SU800 commander module so I
wouldn't get blink from my subjects. We're talking $1600-$1700 in
flashes and accessories. I never intended to get into that. But, of
course, I did.

Flash is a different discussion. There is NO reason that Sony can not offer a similar flash system for the R1. That is not a reason to get a dSLR! Or to drop the R1 because customers don't have any reason/opportunity for future system purchases. Duh!

The corded multi-function remote (I don't think the wireless one
has even been released, and it takes a separate transmitter) costs
$129 and that's with only a 2' cord. The 9' extension costs another
$63.95

I made my own extension. It's a very useful 50' long. It also has a set of shielded wires for the video, so I can see what the camera sees from over 50' away. Sony could have anticipated that need! And even supplied the remote screen thingie! I spent $650 for it. You are wrong about the price. The VD1 remote control MSRP is $50. I bought it for $35. Again, this is an example where the R1 could offer Sony MORE profit after camera sale, but NO! Heck, a dSLR cant use a remote screen thingie! Duh!

After only nine months, I have almost $8000 invested in my $1700
camera, and trust me, that was NEVER my intent!

Mine either! But unlike you, I have a strong will and discipline. ;-)

But finally, I am getting great pictures.

The big reason is lens lust. Sometimes us digicam guys don't know
how good we have it. A similar DSLR version of the R1 lens for the
A100 will likely cost more than the entire R1.

Prolly. I'm still waiting to see the price on the A100 24-120 lens. The Nikkor 24-120 f/3.5-5.6 ED-IF AF-S VR lens had an MSRP of $730...and that was several years ago. Today the street price seems to be about $620.

The DSLRs are a bonanza to the camera manufacturers. Huge margins,
expensive lenses (my last one cost another $1700).

But you're missing the most important part.
If the R2 doesn't come along, you'll just move on to something
else, probably from another manufacturer.

That's a good point. Doesn't Sony realize that I'm not a Sony fan boy. I like the R1. I don't like the A100. If they want a chance at my future business, they have to offer something I want. Duh!

But once you have $8000 in accessories, you're tied into a
manufacturer. It's an enforced brand-loyalty and it really, really
works. I've been thinking of switching to Canon for the last few
months (till I got a new D200 that works) but the staggering loss
I'd suffer on my current bodies and lenses just overwhelmed me.

Yes. BTDT. I refuse to buy a Nikon dSLR that won't let me use my old F lenses. I understand what they are doing and refuse to be a sucker.

They know what they're doing. They know where the money is. They
know how to "imprison" their customers

I want no part of it.

They'll go where the serious money is.

Without me...

BTW, the only growing segment of the camera market is the DSLR
market. And it's cannibalizing the digicam market badly. It's the
only place to be today.

Sigh...

What I'd like is a camera like the D80, but with a high quality EVF, live preview, live histogram, visual blown highlight indication, provision for remote control and viewing, etc. A next generation "bridge" cam. I'd even buy into a few new lenses! In spite of my dislike of Sony as a company, I'd even buy a Sony that satisfied those requirements. It's an R5...

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700 & Sony R1
CATS #25
PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htm
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
'I brake for pixels...'

 

[Stephen McDonald]

How about adding an optical stabilizer, more zoom (including a lens
that will support various telextenders without a special adaptor)
and a movie mode?
These are the 3 missing features that resulted in my not buying an R1.
--
Steve McDonald

Then you've missed out on a fine camera. 24-120mm doesn't really
need OS, longer zoom would make the camera far too big (it's large
enough now) and I don't think many people attracted to this class
of camera want movie mode - get a proper video camera.

Roger

No question that the R1 is a fine camera, but it seems to be positioned in a class of its own and designed to appeal to a crossover group that wants the best features of a DSLR, as well as those of less-expensive fixed-lens models. The fact that it hasn't sold well and has been ignored by the BB and CC type of chain retailers, indicates that it might have done better if it had included the missing features I mentioned. I wasn't suggesting that the basic lens be more powerful, but just that it be designed to support telextenders for those who want them. Considering that optical stabilization is found on many new DSLRs and is the feature-point of current two-page magazine ads for Sony's new Alpha DSLR, I think that it is a necessary function, for a model to appeal to the fullest group of buyers. Actually, I do have several good videocameras, but I'd like to leave them home when I'm shooting still pictures.
--
Steve McDonald

 

[2005magnum]

I have an idea. Hasselblad takes over production of all future R1 Cameras and with the assistance of Sony develops a 16 megapixel camera with a 20-200 lens with image stabilization. They charge $3000.00 for the camera and all of us in all the forum who have dreamed of owning a Hassy sell everything else to aquire this jewel.
--
http://www.zenfolio.com/digitalphotonut

 

[swiss_alain]

I've been in moscow over the weekend and there I saw the dimension of the sony alpha marketing.

On the cyrcle freeway around moscow there are advertisements for the sony alpha camera placed all 100 meters over a distance of 20km. After driving for 15 Minutes you get the impression that the only thing you need to have is this camera...

I'm just supporting my statement from above that sony is a marketing company that put all marketing energy in only a few products. I belive by now that sony will release a small update of the R1 soon.

If we haven't seen a new version by sunday then it will take either few month to get into christmas shopping or we will see it sometime next year and in this case it could be a more innovative version.

For those that havn't bought one yet... I would wait for next week... we don't know what photokina will bring.

Has anyone been there yet and asked at the sony stand about future versions of R1?

 

[Tigadee]

...to be fast! It can be the same body and lens, but just make it perform faster.

Faster AF in low-light, faster read/write for CF and faster use of an external flash (not fiddling around in menu).

And 7 frames per second burst up to 25 frames with clean ISO 800 & 1600 would be nice too! ;-)

--



Your 4 'Cees' for photography: Crisp, Clean, Composed and Colourful
http://www.tigadee.fotopic.net