Manual Focusing: ist DS or DL?

[Kevin Roe]

Hello

I'm thinking of picking up a cheap new ist DS body chiefly to have a digital SLR that lets me do the unthinkable -- use it like an old manual focus 35mm SLR.

As such, I have been reading various opinions in this forum about whether the DS or the DL have brighter viewfinders, as I will probably be using a 28mm f2.8 manual focus lens to do most of my shooting.

I don't care about the auto focus as I won't be using it. I have a Nikon D50 for that and I really just want to go backwards a bit and have a solid, reliable DSLR that will let me go slowly and focus manually using some nice old Pentax K mount lenses I have hung onto.

Your thoughts as always are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[RoscoT]

If manual focus is your primary concern, I would go for the DS for one reason only. You can purchase a Katz Eye focus screen for it and have a good old fashioned split image/micro prism focus screen.
--
Rosco
Terminal Stage LBA
http://www.pbase.com/roscot

 

[demondata]

Hi Kevin

From my reading the DS seems to have the brightest viewfinder, with the DL prism seen by most as a step down, probably some cost-saving for Pentax in going that route. I own a DS and find the viewfinder bright and useful.

 

[Kevin Roe]

Thanks, Rosco

I have been unable to find this focus screen on the Pentax Web site. Is it a a third-party product? How easy is it to find/buy and install?

• Kevin

If manual focus is your primary concern, I would go for the DS for
one reason only. You can purchase a Katz Eye focus screen for it
and have a good old fashioned split image/micro prism focus screen.
--
Rosco
Terminal Stage LBA
http://www.pbase.com/roscot

 

[RoscoT]

http://www.keoptics.com/

Very easy to install. I have them on both my bodies. Don't go for the optibrite coating, it is unneeded and kind of messes up the metering. Make sure you read about the effect on meter readings.
--
Rosco
Terminal Stage LBA
http://www.pbase.com/roscot

 

[RoscoT]

Actually the DL is very slightly brighter because it is a bit smaller. You really need to compare side by side to tell the difference though. They are very close.
--
Rosco
Terminal Stage LBA
http://www.pbase.com/roscot

 

[Kevin Roe]

Thanks. Especially in regards to the OptiBrite recommendation. I just checked out the site and am amazed to have this option.

Do you find that the split image does not black out as claimed at higher apertures and that the Katz screen is significantly brighter than the Pentax-supplied one? What effect does the Katz screen have on metering (if any)?

http://www.keoptics.com/

Very easy to install. I have them on both my bodies. Don't go for
the optibrite coating, it is unneeded and kind of messes up the
metering. Make sure you read about the effect on meter readings.
--
Rosco
Terminal Stage LBA
http://www.pbase.com/roscot

 

[volosong]

Roscoe is correct in that you will need a split focusing screen for manual focus. Otherwise, you are stuck with a matte screen and that isn't all that accurate.

I also use a lot of older K and M lenses (and a few A) and put in a split screen, microprism focusing screen and that is the only way to get accurate manual focusing.

I use center weighted metering and have not found it to be an issue. Sometimes, as very small apertures, it is difficult to utilize the split screen feature, but all you have to do is move your eye withing the viewfinder and it is possible to get a clear view for focusing.

(p.s. My screen is not from Katzeye, or whatever it is called. I have one of the original MX screens that was cut down to fit the DS. It is no longer available from the 3rd party vendor. Pentax never offered this screen for the DS. I plan to get a Katzeye for my second DS body.)

--
Steven
GMT -8

 

[Kevin Roe]

Thanks so much to all of you. This has been very helpful!

Roscoe is correct in that you will need a split focusing screen for
manual focus. Otherwise, you are stuck with a matte screen and
that isn't all that accurate.

I also use a lot of older K and M lenses (and a few A) and put in a
split screen, microprism focusing screen and that is the only way
to get accurate manual focusing.

I use center weighted metering and have not found it to be an
issue. Sometimes, as very small apertures, it is difficult to
utilize the split screen feature, but all you have to do is move
your eye withing the viewfinder and it is possible to get a clear
view for focusing.

(p.s. My screen is not from Katzeye, or whatever it is called. I
have one of the original MX screens that was cut down to fit the
DS. It is no longer available from the 3rd party vendor. Pentax
never offered this screen for the DS. I plan to get a Katzeye for
my second DS body.)

--
Steven
GMT -8

 

[Marc Sabatella]

As such, I have been reading various opinions in this forum about
whether the DS or the DL have brighter viewfinders, as I will
probably be using a 28mm f2.8 manual focus lens to do most of my
shooting.

My perception is that brightness is roughly the same or a slight edge in favor of DL, but the DL is slightly larger. Either one is a very noticeable improvement over just about anything else in this price range. And while I'm sure the split-screen option on the DS helps, I use the default screen all the time. Not as fast as a split-screen, arguably not quite as accurate, but it certainly works.

--
Marc Sabatella

 

[Pasvorn]

One thing nice about a 28mm is that its has relatively wide DOF. This means that manual focusing on a DS/DL is not too hard. I usaually stopped down between f8-3.5. "Most" of my shot are in focus.

However, with a 50mm f/1.4, I back-focus a bit - I think I missed focus about half of the time when I open wider than 2.8.

I have 2 28mm lens - a PA-28mm f/2.8, and PM-28mm f/3.5. For me, the f/3.5 seems to be a bit sharper, but less convenience since it is not an "A-" lens.

 

[RoscoT]

Thanks. Especially in regards to the OptiBrite recommendation. I
just checked out the site and am amazed to have this option.

Glad to help.

Do you find that the split image does not black out as claimed at
higher apertures and that the Katz screen is significantly brighter
than the Pentax-supplied one? What effect does the Katz screen
have on metering (if any)?

I use it successfully with my A*300 f4.0 and my A400 f5.6. I would not say it is "brighter" than the oem screen, but about the same, which is outstanding by the way. The matte background of the Katz Eye seems to have more "bite" then the Pentax screens, which helps as much as the Split image/MP. One member here actually had them make a custom screen with just the matte, without the Split image/MP.

Metering is effected exactly as explained in their FAQ. Spot metering is pretty much out of the question though.

http://www.keoptics.com/

Very easy to install. I have them on both my bodies. Don't go for
the optibrite coating, it is unneeded and kind of messes up the
metering. Make sure you read about the effect on meter readings.
--
Rosco
Terminal Stage LBA
http://www.pbase.com/roscot

--
Rosco
Terminal Stage LBA
http://www.pbase.com/roscot

 

[foxglove]

If manual focus is your primary concern, I would go for the DS for
one reason only. You can purchase a Katz Eye focus screen for it
and have a good old fashioned split image/micro prism focus screen.

Didn't someone get a Katzeye for their DL a while back? I know the website says something about them not fitting, but I'm sure someone got one. Am I dreaming?
Julie

 

[rmarquez]

If manual focus is your primary concern, I would go for the DS for
one reason only. You can purchase a Katz Eye focus screen for it
and have a good old fashioned split image/micro prism focus screen.

Actually, I believe that the Katz Eye will also work on the DL. There are several people on this forum that have that configuration. However, the DS viefinder is a pentaprizm while the DL is a pentamirror, meaning that the DS is supposed to be crisper. Some claim that, in practice there is not much difference, though.

 

[paul_do]

I have a Katz Eye and a Haoda Fu screen and both works great with my DL. I get more in focus shot with the screen. The Katz Eye is more expensive then the Haoda Fu screen though.

 

[ahilgaz]

I have a
Nikon D50 for that and I really just want to go backwards a bit and
have a solid, reliable DSLR that will let me go slowly and focus
manually using some nice old Pentax K mount lenses I have hung onto.

But be careful Kevin, once you go back to Pentax, you may never wanna hold the N*k*n anymore.
--
Ahmet
*ist-anbul +2GMT

 

[Presuming Ed]

I've just bought my first A lens and find manual focusing using the supplied screen on the DL really quite easy. For getting close to the desired focal length the screen is perfectly adequate, for fine adjustments the focus indicator lights up when the focus area is sharp. Okay, it's not quite the same as a split-screen but it works well for me. See http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=19486054 for some of my first attempts.

Cheers,
Ed
--



Please check out my embryonic photoblog at http://www.bokeh-junior.com .

 

[rmarquez]

I have a Katz Eye and a Haoda Fu screen and both works great with
my DL. I get more in focus shot with the screen. The Katz Eye is
more expensive then the Haoda Fu screen though.

I never heard of the Haoda Fu screen. I'll have to ckeck it out. In your opinion, how does it compare with the Katz Eye?

 

[Godfrey]

Kevin,

When I first bought the DS, the only new lens I bought with it was a DA14. All the other lenses I bought at that time were used Pentax A-series, and the A28/2.8 was the first. I didn't finish updating my kit to nearly all, new AF lenses until late last Fall, and I still use manual focus rather a lot.

The DS works very well as a manual focus SLR with the A series lenses.

Whether it's better or worse than the DL I can't say ... my impression from looking through both with the standard screens is that they're mostly equivalent in practical terms.

Best thing for manual focus, however, has been to have a custom Katz Eye Optics focusing screen made. It's crisper, has about the same brightness as the standard screen but the focus transition is clearer and easier to see.

Godfrey

 

[paul_do]

The katz eye is just a tiny bit crisper then the Haoda Fu other then that they both works great.

I have a Katz Eye and a Haoda Fu screen and both works great with
my DL. I get more in focus shot with the screen. The Katz Eye is
more expensive then the Haoda Fu screen though.

I never heard of the Haoda Fu screen. I'll have to ckeck it out.
In your opinion, how does it compare with the Katz Eye?