85mm on a 1.6x crop

[Dan Koster]

Theory vs. Practice

The 85mm is the "preferred lens" for portraits because that focal length is the most pleasing for features, etc.

However, when you put it on a 1.6x crop, it becomes ~ 135mm which is moving toward "too long".

But the lens is the same whether on a crop or full-frame. The difference being the "cropping" on the sensor.

Shifting gears...

The 50mm on a 1.6x CF becomes 80mm - which is closer to the "ideal".

But the 50mm lens is not billed as a portrait lens...

So, which is best for taking portraits?

Is 135mm too long?

--Dan

 

[Harlod]

In practice I like the working distance on 85mm on a 1.6x crop for head/head and shoulders type shots and the 50mm for half length / full length.

 

[M_Edge]

You don’t change focal length of a specific lens based on which camera you use. The 80 mm range is a ‘preferred’ portrait lens because of the perspective you get – no bulgy noses, pleasing flattening of features, without totally eliminating perspective (i.e., most folks don’t use a 300 mm lens for portraits). The 50 mm has the same field of view on a 20d/30d at a fixed distance as an 80 mm would have on a full-sensor camera. But this doesn’t change the perspective.
--
BJCP National

 

[ed rader]

i have the 50 1.4 and i am selling it. on a crop camera the FL is too awkward. i recently rented the 85 1.8 and it gave me that L lens rush and i much prefer it for portraits.

i can do half body portraits with my 24-105.

i love the 85!

ed rader

--



'One often has mixed feelings about relatives, but few people could identify serious problems in their relationships with dogs.'

-- Anonymous

 

[mfurman]

I prefer 85 mm on 1.6. In other words, 85 mm on FF is too short for my taste (for head portraits). I would get 135 mm if I were to use FF camera (but will still keep 85). At the same time, I also use 50mm (on 1.6) for portraits.
--
Michael

 

[Anthony de Vries]

You don’t change focal length of a specific lens based on which
camera you use.

You're totally wrong.

The 80 mm range is a ‘preferred’ portrait lens
because of the perspective you get – no bulgy noses, pleasing
flattening of features, without totally eliminating perspective
(i.e., most folks don’t use a 300 mm lens for portraits). The 50 mm
has the same field of view on a 20d/30d at a fixed distance as an
80 mm would have on a full-sensor camera. But this doesn’t change
the perspective.

It DOES change the perspective.

Contrary to what people think, perspective has nothing to do with the focal length of the lens. Perspective depends on the distance of the camera to the subject.
And that means that perspective depends on the field of view of the lens.

So when you like 80mm on a FF body, then you should indeed use 50mm on a 20D to get the same kind of pictures!

What has changed a bit in the recent years, is the composition of portraits. People seem to prefer a tighter crop. And that thus means a somewhat longer focal length, to keep the distance (and thus perspective) the same.

 

[Anthony14707]

I'd keep saving my pennies until a 5D is possible.

I can't imaging not getting a true FOV with my 85mm 1.2L

I love that lens.

 

[Wildpicture]

You don’t change focal length of a specific lens based on which
camera you use.

You're totally wrong.

No, he is not. The focal length of a lens is not changed by putting it on a different camera (with different sensor/film size). A certain lens has the focal length the designers designed it for, regardless of the camera. That´s just plain physics.

What you might mean is that a picture taken with a 50mm lens on a 1.6x crop camera looks the same as a picture taken with an 80mm on a FF camera because the effect of distance. But that does not change the physical focal length of the lens.

Normally a focal length of around 100mm gives the best pleasing results. Today I use the 85/1.8 on my 1D2 to get that. In the past it was an 150mm on my 6x6 camera. For my taste an 85 on a 1.6 camera is just too much, same as 135mm on FF is too much for me. But it depends whether you work in a studio or outside and on your subject.

Regards,
Hans

http://www.wildpicture.com

 

[Anthony de Vries]

You don’t change focal length of a specific lens based on which
camera you use.

You're totally wrong.

No, he is not. The focal length of a lens is not changed by putting
it on a different camera (with different sensor/film size).

I never said that the focal length changed.

I said that you choose a different focal length for a subject, based upon the sensor size of the camera.

 

[Anthony de Vries]

I'd keep saving my pennies until a 5D is possible.

I can't imaging not getting a true FOV with my 85mm 1.2L

And what might a "true" FoV be?

 

[M_Edge]

A 'true' FOV is what you get with an 8 x 10 view camera. Anything less is two-bit :> )
--
BJCP National

 

[Anthony14707]

A true FOV is when my 85mm lens gives me an 85mm FOV, not 1.6x

Did you not understand the answer?

 

[saynomore]

... FOV is not inherently tied up to focal length, hence there is not "true" 85mm FOV. The FOV of an 85mm lens on a 1.6X camera is as "true" or valid as the FOV of a 85mm lens on a FF camera, and the FOV of a 85mm lens on a LF camera.

But we know you meant "when my lens gives me the FOV it was designed for", which is different.

A true FOV is when my 85mm lens gives me an 85mm FOV, not 1.6x

Did you not understand the answer?

 

[Zidar162589]

There are all sorts of portraits. But if you're talking about a conventional headshot, I'd say a 50 1.4 is ideal on a 1.6x camera. Here's one of my favorites.



Art is old guide and polar bear hunter. I posed him next to a window in his kunnichuq, which is sort of an arctic entry way. Shot with 10D and 50 1.4. The 85 is also a great lens, and you can do nice headshots with it, but I'd choose the 50 first for this sort of picture.

Zidar
Alaska
http://www.pbase.com/zidar
--
'He's out there operating without any decent restraint, totally beyond
the pale of any acceptable human conduct.'

• Apocalypse Now

 

[Paul Turton]

Dan,

For candid portraits, I find any focal length works well, but, if you mean formal and studio posed head and shoulder shots, the 85 will work very well and give a reasonable working distance without shoving the lens into the subjects face. For 3/4 shots or more than 1 person I use the 50.

Breaks the rules if you want something that stands out from the crowd.

 

[mfurman]

--
Michael

 

[amtberg]

You don’t change focal length of a specific lens based on which
camera you use. The 80 mm range is a ‘preferred’ portrait lens
because of the perspective you get – no bulgy noses, pleasing
flattening of features, without totally eliminating perspective
(i.e., most folks don’t use a 300 mm lens for portraits). The 50 mm
has the same field of view on a 20d/30d at a fixed distance as an
80 mm would have on a full-sensor camera. But this doesn’t change
the perspective.
--
BJCP National

Ugh, here we go again. Perspective is a function of distance to the subject, period. If you're using the same FL on FF and crop cameras you will have to step farther away with a crop camera--hence perspective is different between crop and FF cameras using the same FL.

OTOH, I disagree that 85mm is the "classic" portrait FL. It's more the starting point of the portrait range, with anything shorter introducing too much perspective distortion. It's a matter of taste, but IMO 135mm is a great FL for portraits. Many top fashion photographers actually do use very long lenses.

 

[BAK]

An 80 mm lens is a short telephoto on a 35mm camera and a normal lens on a 120 medium format cmera and a wide angle on a 4x5 view camera.

A 135mm lens if a normal lens on a 4x5 view camera and a medium telephoto on a 35mm camera and a medium-moderate telephoto on a Rebel XT.

Canon does not make things easy because it miscatagorizes, sort of, lenses in its borchures and web sites.

A 355 mm lens may or may not be a wide angle, depending ont eh camera, but Canon puts it on the wide angle page.

In the olden days, (1070) 135mm lenses were popular portrait lenses on 35mm cameras, and then they get replaced by 85mm and 100/105mm lenses. We used to love our Vivitar 135 f2.8 lenses.

BAK

 

[RikLondon]

So... help me out here (and if you don't feel like it, fine. Don't come back and yell at me )

Lets say.... on a full body, a 40mm will cause some distortion of e.g. nose etc and is not ideal for portraits.

So, if I put the 40mm on a 1.6 cropfactor camera, taking it up to 64mm will this then "behave" like a 'zoom' and there will be no more distortion? Or, will the distortoin remain, but I'll just come closed to the subject due to the cropfactor?

thanks.....

 

[antoineestephan]

This is probably the most debated topic in the digital small sensor era.
Well pals too many variables here.

It is quite true that the focal length of a lens will not change if you change the size of the sensor behind it, BUT what does change in this case is the angle of view, which is the most important factor in determining perspective and the distance from camera to subject is the second important thing. Focal length is just a way to give an idea of what to expect.

a 85mm lens which is a short telephoto on a FF camera is considered a wide angle lens on a large format Camera, so the angle of view was the most important thing.

I read an article in a photo magazine more than 20 years ago explainig about perspective, they used photographs of the same scene taken from the same standing point with the center of the camera aimed at the same target, one was taken with a big telephoto lens the other with a very wide angle lens, they took the center of the wide angle photo cropped to get the same view of the tele one and then blew it up to the same size, and voila, there it was they had a grainy replica of the telephoto picture with the same perspective.

Well that is to say that a 50mm on a FF Camera have a different perspective from the same 50mm on a X1.6 crop camera.
I wish I was able to make myself clear.