Canon S800 Questions

[Todd57442]

Hello all,

I've been reading various threads here and reviews elsewhere about the S800, and I still have some questions I hope you can answer. I will preface my questions with the following information: I am primarily concerned with photo printout quality (as opposed to text). I am new to digital photography, so I have no experience at all using any photoediting software.....though I do expect I will learn to use it, but to what degree I am uncertain (as I really don't know how complicated all of this is anyhow). I will be printing images from a Pentax Optio 330 which is a 3.34MP camera. I expect that most of the photos I will print out will be 4x6, with the occasional larger print.

So, with that said, here are some of the questions/concerns I have:

How does printing 4x6 images work?
Do you have to use full size (8.5 x 11?) sheets with perforations?
If so, can you see the perforations after to tear the prints out?

Does that mean you have to fill up the whole sheet at once or else waste the unused space on the paper?
How many 4x6 prints do you get on a full sized sheet of photo paper?
If you can use 4x6 photo paper, is there a separate tray for them?

The reason I ask some of these questions, is that I was looking at the HP1215 and 1315 this weekend in a store and saw that they had a separate tray just for the 4x6 photo paper. This seemed pretty slick to me. I have not looked at a S800 in person.

Also, will the S800 print edge to edge? I got the impression that it did not, at least not for full size photos. Is that because the paper is 8.5 x 11 and the standard for larger photos is 8x10? When you print out 4x6 photos, are there borders left on those prints? With 4x6 photo paper? With full size perforated 4x6 paper? I'm not as concerned with the larger prints having a border (as they would most likely end up in a frame of some sort), but I don't really want my 4x6 prints to have borders (since they would most likely be loose or in albums where the borders would show).

There seems to be little discussion of the HP Photosmart printers here, is there something I'm missing? When I go to the stores they suggest that the HPs are the best, with most features, as compared to the Epsons and Lexmarks. I don't honestly recall if there were Canons present or not. I will say though that they showed me a printed sample on photo paper from the 1215. It was good, but still somewhat disappointing. In shaded areas I could see the different color dots as it tried to blend from one shade to the next. Am I right that this is called "dithering"? The print was just from the sample "pod" they set up in the stores, so I don't know what the image resolution was, what camera it came from, or what paper was being used. Still, I'm not a pro, just an average consumer and I picked it up pretty easily. Am I just being too picky and expecting too much from a digital photo and ink jet printer? For as hailed as the image quality seems to be for the s800, is this still to be expected?

As for speed, everyone seems to rave about this for the S800. Yet from the review I read of the HP 1315, the 1315 was just slightly slower but at a much higher resolution than the S800. Can anyone speak to this? Also, how long does really take to print out a 4x6 photo on high quality photo paper?

I really like the idea of separate ink cartridges. I see the price listed as around $12 a piece. Does that mean to buy one of the six color cartridges it costs about $12, or is that for all six? I would guess that's just for one of them. Are the ink cartridges easy to find at stores? Also, and obviously this will depend upon how much you print, but how do you feel this printer compares with others respective to ink usage? Frankly, I've never had an ink jet printer, so I don't know what to expect.

From what I gather reading reviews and posts here, as well as my own inspection, it seems that the HP Photosmart printers offer more features, while the Canon S800 is supposed to have better image quality? Agree? Disagree?

What about the Canon S820D scheduled for release in Feb. of 2002? This looks to be designed to take on the HP 1315 with all of its features (though it still doesn't look to have a separate tray for the 4x6 prints). Any thoughts on what the cost will be? If I were going to buy the s800, do you think the price would be better now during the holiday season, or after the release of the new flagship model in the 820D? This of course says nothing of being able to use the printer for a few months were I to buy it now. Still, I haven't really followed the industry practices in this realm, so I don't know how they tend to drop prices for holiday seasons and after new models come out.

I know this is long, and contains lots of questions, but I appreciate your imput.

Thanks,

-Todd

 

[Bob44240]

Do you have to use full size (8.5 x 11?) sheets with perforations?
If so, can you see the perforations after to tear the prints out?
Does that mean you have to fill up the whole sheet at once or else
waste the unused space on the paper?
How many 4x6 prints do you get on a full sized sheet of photo paper?
If you can use 4x6 photo paper, is there a separate tray for them?

Canon makes perfed 4x6 photo paper which works very well with the S800 and separates very cleanly. If you want to use 8 1/2 x 11 paper, you can get three 4x6 photos per sheet. You will need a trimmer to cut the photos. I recommend Qimage Pro software for all printing - including multiple images per page.

There is no need for a separate 4x6 tray - that would just add to the size of the printer.

Also, will the S800 print edge to edge?

It will only print edge to edge using the perfed 4x6 photo paper.

Am I just being too
picky and expecting too much from a digital photo and ink jet
printer? For as hailed as the image quality seems to be for the
s800, is this still to be expected?

You are not being too picky. Most people find the output of the S800 is simply amazing.

I really like the idea of separate ink cartridges. I see the price
listed as around $12 a piece. Does that mean to buy one of the six
color cartridges it costs about $12, or is that for all six

The price you mention above is per cartridge. However, much better prices are available if you but the ink online. I paid about $8.45 per cartridge the last time I ordered.

From what I gather reading reviews and posts here, as well as my
own inspection, it seems that the HP Photosmart printers offer more
features, while the Canon S800 is supposed to have better image
quality? Agree? Disagree?

What kind of features? If you are going to be editing your images via software, why pay for the ability to print directly from the card? Most people like to tweak their images prior to printing or at least save their images to CD. Also, it is difficult to determine the quality of a photo by viewing it on the printer's little window. You have much more control by printing from the pc.

 

[Bob Williams]

The 1315 is 400$ at BestBuy or Circuit City. It includes memory
slots for direct memory card printing. It produces a decent print,
but is no where even near the s800 quality. For simple, plug in the
memory card, choose a photo and a size, hit print, printing, the
1315 is most likely the tops. The s800 is 300$ at the same stores.
It doesn't have the memory slots, but it comes with a card reader
in the box. It produces stunning prints that blow everything I have
seen away, and I have not printed an edited image with it yet.
Using Qimage, I was having to make color adjustments for the images
to print true. There is software that comes with the s800 called
PhotoRecord. It is not a high quality polished dedicated printing
utility like Qimage, but it produces very good color matched prints
straight out of the camera. Actually, once you spend a little time
understanding the less than clear interface, the program is pretty
powerful, and you can produce an album with it in a snap. Open a
new album, set the margins and relative photo size, choose the
frames or artwork, pick how many images per page, check that all
is to your satisfaction, hit print, feed printer paper.

Do you have to use full size (8.5 x 11?) sheets with perforations?
If so, can you see the perforations after to tear the prints out?
Does that mean you have to fill up the whole sheet at once or else
waste the unused space on the paper?
How many 4x6 prints do you get on a full sized sheet of photo paper?
If you can use 4x6 photo paper, is there a separate tray for them?

Canon makes perfed 4x6 photo paper which works very well with the
S800 and separates very cleanly. If you want to use 8 1/2 x 11
paper, you can get three 4x6 photos per sheet. You will need a
trimmer to cut the photos. I recommend Qimage Pro software for all
printing - including multiple images per page.
There is no need for a separate 4x6 tray - that would just add to
the size of the printer.

Also, will the S800 print edge to edge?

It will only print edge to edge using the perfed 4x6 photo paper.

Am I just being too
picky and expecting too much from a digital photo and ink jet
printer? For as hailed as the image quality seems to be for the
s800, is this still to be expected?

You are not being too picky. Most people find the output of the
S800 is simply amazing.

I really like the idea of separate ink cartridges. I see the price
listed as around $12 a piece. Does that mean to buy one of the six
color cartridges it costs about $12, or is that for all six

The price you mention above is per cartridge. However, much better
prices are available if you but the ink online. I paid about $8.45
per cartridge the last time I ordered.

From what I gather reading reviews and posts here, as well as my
own inspection, it seems that the HP Photosmart printers offer more
features, while the Canon S800 is supposed to have better image
quality? Agree? Disagree?

What kind of features? If you are going to be editing your images
via software, why pay for the ability to print directly from the
card? Most people like to tweak their images prior to printing or
at least save their images to CD. Also, it is difficult to
determine the quality of a photo by viewing it on the printer's
little window. You have much more control by printing from the pc.

 

[Todd57442]

Thanks for the responses.

You refer to the perforated Canon paper for 4x6 prints, and then talk about being able to get 3 4x6 prints on an 8.5 x 11 sheet. I am a little confused (the newbie in me is clearly showing). Does that mean that the perforated sheets for printing out 4x6 prints are not 8.5 x 11? In any event, how does the printer know that you are using this specific paper and how does it know where on the sheet to print? Presumably you have to set this all up in advance. How much of a pain is all of this?

Again, even when using these peforated sheets, how many 4x6 prints are on each sheet and must you print out all of them or waste the remainder of the sheet? Can you use sheets which are themselves only 4x6 in size (like those that you would load in the tray of an HP Photosmart printer)?

I guess what I'm trying to imagine is how I would go about printing just one shot at a time. Why would I want to only print one at a time? Well, I'm just speculating here, but I would think that there would be times that I was unsatisfied with a particular print and would want to tweek it a bit more with software and reprint it. Or, I might just need a copy of one particular print a time. Or, well, I don't know, but I'm just guessing there will be times I'll only want to print one or two images and don't want to have to burn a whole sheet of paper if it's not necessary. That was just something that seemed really convenient and simple about the HPs. Yeah, I guess it makes the printer a little larger, but I really don't care about that little difference as it is just going to be sitting on my desk anyhow (now CAMERA size, that's a whole different issue ).

Also, I was reading a response on a different thread and there was some discussion about printers not being able to print a full image. I understand from your response that the S800 will not print to the edges on an 8.5 x 11 piece of paper, but is it still able to print out a full 8x10 print on that same piece of paper?

As for the ability to print directly from the printer and do so mild editing and cropping without the computer, I really don't know that I want or need that capability. But then again, since I'm so new to this, I don't know that I won't want it once I start playing around with printing (sorry for the double negative there). I'm not terrified of experimenting with software, but I am a little intimidated by it.....sort of like looking at the cockpit controls for a 747........there are buttons, switches, and levers to control and correct most everything, but I'm not a pilot and don't fully comprehend the effect of many of the controls and how they interact with one another. I like the ability to enhance and edit photos when I want (it seems to me that that is one of the big advantages of digital photography), but I also don't want to have to spend 15min or an hour for every single photo I decide to print out (I just have no idea how long it takes on average to clean-up or modify photos ....assuming I'm not trying to do anything really wild or involved). Maybe someone can give me a better idea of what's involved when using software editing? Is it a matter of having a standard set of "processes" applied which match my camera and its particular attributes? Based upon what I've already stated, do I really need to be looking at cameras with the direct print features?

Thanks again,

-Todd

Do you have to use full size (8.5 x 11?) sheets with perforations?
If so, can you see the perforations after to tear the prints out?
Does that mean you have to fill up the whole sheet at once or else
waste the unused space on the paper?
How many 4x6 prints do you get on a full sized sheet of photo paper?
If you can use 4x6 photo paper, is there a separate tray for them?

Canon makes perfed 4x6 photo paper which works very well with the
S800 and separates very cleanly. If you want to use 8 1/2 x 11
paper, you can get three 4x6 photos per sheet. You will need a
trimmer to cut the photos. I recommend Qimage Pro software for all
printing - including multiple images per page.
There is no need for a separate 4x6 tray - that would just add to
the size of the printer.

Also, will the S800 print edge to edge?

It will only print edge to edge using the perfed 4x6 photo paper.

Am I just being too
picky and expecting too much from a digital photo and ink jet
printer? For as hailed as the image quality seems to be for the
s800, is this still to be expected?

You are not being too picky. Most people find the output of the
S800 is simply amazing.

I really like the idea of separate ink cartridges. I see the price
listed as around $12 a piece. Does that mean to buy one of the six
color cartridges it costs about $12, or is that for all six

The price you mention above is per cartridge. However, much better
prices are available if you but the ink online. I paid about $8.45
per cartridge the last time I ordered.

From what I gather reading reviews and posts here, as well as my
own inspection, it seems that the HP Photosmart printers offer more
features, while the Canon S800 is supposed to have better image
quality? Agree? Disagree?

What kind of features? If you are going to be editing your images
via software, why pay for the ability to print directly from the
card? Most people like to tweak their images prior to printing or
at least save their images to CD. Also, it is difficult to
determine the quality of a photo by viewing it on the printer's
little window. You have much more control by printing from the pc.

 

[nhf7170]

Todd,

If edge-to-edge printing is a concern for you, then perhaps you might want to wait for the S820D. It can print edge-to-edge on 4x6 paper (as well as other sizes too).

 

[Bob44240]

You refer to the perforated Canon paper for 4x6 prints, and then
talk about being able to get 3 4x6 prints on an 8.5 x 11 sheet. I
am a little confused (the newbie in me is clearly showing). Does
that mean that the perforated sheets for printing out 4x6 prints
are not 8.5 x 11? In any event, how does the printer know that you
are using this specific paper and how does it know where on the
sheet to print? Presumably you have to set this all up in advance.
How much of a pain is all of this?

The perfed 4x6 sheets are to print one 4x6 image. To set this up is just a couple of clicks in the Canon driver software - no big deal.

It is more cost effective to purchase 8.5x11 paper and print multiple 4x6 images on one 8.5x11 sheet.

Also, I was reading a response on a different thread and there was
some discussion about printers not being able to print a full
image. I understand from your response that the S800 will not
print to the edges on an 8.5 x 11 piece of paper, but is it still
able to print out a full 8x10 print on that same piece of paper?

Due to a quirk in the Canon driver, it will actually print something like a 7.99x10 image on 8.5x11 paper. This difference of .01" is not a problem.

I like the ability to enhance and edit photos
when I want (it seems to me that that is one of the big advantages
of digital photography), but I also don't want to have to spend
15min or an hour for every single photo I decide to print out (I
just have no idea how long it takes on average to clean-up or
modify photos ....assuming I'm not trying to do anything really
wild or involved). Maybe someone can give me a better idea of
what's involved when using software editing? Is it a matter of
having a standard set of "processes" applied which match my camera
and its particular attributes? Based upon what I've already
stated, do I really need to be looking at cameras with the direct
print features?

How much you get into software editing is really up to you. Many editing packages have an "auto enhance" feature which does a lot for you. This auto enhance takes maybe 10 seconds per photo. If your portraits suffer from "red eye", you wil have to correct them in software.

Also, as I stated earlier, if you want to save your images to CD, you will have to download them to the PC anyway. I save every "good" photo I make - most people do. This allows you to re-print any photo at any time. I never understood the selling point of the direct print feature. I guess if you want to take your camera to a party you could then also drag along your printer but this does not make sense to me. Before I print any photo, I want to examine it and tweak it to get the best possible printed image - you can't do this with direct print.

 

[Todd57442]

Thanks for your responses Bob,

If I understand your responses correctly regarding printing, the S800 can print edge to edge on the peforated single 4x6 sheets of photo paper.

You also noted that it is more economical to use the 8.5 x 11 sheets (on which you can get 3 4x6 images). My follow up question is, when using the 8.5 x 11 sheets to get your 3 4x6 images, does the S800 print to the edges of each of the 3 4x6 images, or is there a border around each of these 3 prints?

TIA

-Todd

You refer to the perforated Canon paper for 4x6 prints, and then
talk about being able to get 3 4x6 prints on an 8.5 x 11 sheet. I
am a little confused (the newbie in me is clearly showing). Does
that mean that the perforated sheets for printing out 4x6 prints
are not 8.5 x 11? In any event, how does the printer know that you
are using this specific paper and how does it know where on the
sheet to print? Presumably you have to set this all up in advance.
How much of a pain is all of this?

The perfed 4x6 sheets are to print one 4x6 image. To set this up
is just a couple of clicks in the Canon driver software - no big
deal.
It is more cost effective to purchase 8.5x11 paper and print
multiple 4x6 images on one 8.5x11 sheet.

Also, I was reading a response on a different thread and there was
some discussion about printers not being able to print a full
image. I understand from your response that the S800 will not
print to the edges on an 8.5 x 11 piece of paper, but is it still
able to print out a full 8x10 print on that same piece of paper?

Due to a quirk in the Canon driver, it will actually print
something like a 7.99x10 image on 8.5x11 paper. This difference of
.01" is not a problem.

I like the ability to enhance and edit photos
when I want (it seems to me that that is one of the big advantages
of digital photography), but I also don't want to have to spend
15min or an hour for every single photo I decide to print out (I
just have no idea how long it takes on average to clean-up or
modify photos ....assuming I'm not trying to do anything really
wild or involved). Maybe someone can give me a better idea of
what's involved when using software editing? Is it a matter of
having a standard set of "processes" applied which match my camera
and its particular attributes? Based upon what I've already
stated, do I really need to be looking at cameras with the direct
print features?

How much you get into software editing is really up to you. Many
editing packages have an "auto enhance" feature which does a lot
for you. This auto enhance takes maybe 10 seconds per photo. If
your portraits suffer from "red eye", you wil have to correct them
in software.
Also, as I stated earlier, if you want to save your images to CD,
you will have to download them to the PC anyway. I save every
"good" photo I make - most people do. This allows you to re-print
any photo at any time. I never understood the selling point of the
direct print feature. I guess if you want to take your camera to a
party you could then also drag along your printer but this does not
make sense to me. Before I print any photo, I want to examine it
and tweak it to get the best possible printed image - you can't do
this with direct print.

 

[Scott Skinner]

I am new to dig camera also, but I opted for the S800 and I am very pleased. My applications sounds very similar to yours.

One note... I used Photoshop LE for adjusting my picture taking mastakes grins and I want more power. If you have not used any tweaking prgrams it is very easy to become excited by thier capabilities. More, more, more... give me more!

You refer to the perforated Canon paper for 4x6 prints, and then
talk about being able to get 3 4x6 prints on an 8.5 x 11 sheet. I
am a little confused (the newbie in me is clearly showing). Does
that mean that the perforated sheets for printing out 4x6 prints
are not 8.5 x 11? In any event, how does the printer know that you
are using this specific paper and how does it know where on the
sheet to print? Presumably you have to set this all up in advance.
How much of a pain is all of this?

The perfed 4x6 sheets are to print one 4x6 image. To set this up
is just a couple of clicks in the Canon driver software - no big
deal.
It is more cost effective to purchase 8.5x11 paper and print
multiple 4x6 images on one 8.5x11 sheet.

Also, I was reading a response on a different thread and there was
some discussion about printers not being able to print a full
image. I understand from your response that the S800 will not
print to the edges on an 8.5 x 11 piece of paper, but is it still
able to print out a full 8x10 print on that same piece of paper?

Due to a quirk in the Canon driver, it will actually print
something like a 7.99x10 image on 8.5x11 paper. This difference of
.01" is not a problem.

I like the ability to enhance and edit photos
when I want (it seems to me that that is one of the big advantages
of digital photography), but I also don't want to have to spend
15min or an hour for every single photo I decide to print out (I
just have no idea how long it takes on average to clean-up or
modify photos ....assuming I'm not trying to do anything really
wild or involved). Maybe someone can give me a better idea of
what's involved when using software editing? Is it a matter of
having a standard set of "processes" applied which match my camera
and its particular attributes? Based upon what I've already
stated, do I really need to be looking at cameras with the direct
print features?

How much you get into software editing is really up to you. Many
editing packages have an "auto enhance" feature which does a lot
for you. This auto enhance takes maybe 10 seconds per photo. If
your portraits suffer from "red eye", you wil have to correct them
in software.
Also, as I stated earlier, if you want to save your images to CD,
you will have to download them to the PC anyway. I save every
"good" photo I make - most people do. This allows you to re-print
any photo at any time. I never understood the selling point of the
direct print feature. I guess if you want to take your camera to a
party you could then also drag along your printer but this does not
make sense to me. Before I print any photo, I want to examine it
and tweak it to get the best possible printed image - you can't do
this with direct print.

 

[gundie]

...which should be available on Feb '02, according to Canon's site.

Norman

Todd,

If edge-to-edge printing is a concern for you, then perhaps you
might want to wait for the S820D. It can print edge-to-edge on 4x6
paper (as well as other sizes too).

 

[Michael Geary]

If I understand your responses correctly regarding printing, the
S800 can print edge to edge on the peforated single 4x6 sheets of
photo paper.

Yes. The 4x6 paper has borders that you snap off after you print.

You also noted that it is more economical to use the 8.5 x 11
sheets (on which you can get 3 4x6 images). My follow up question
is, when using the 8.5 x 11 sheets to get your 3 4x6 images, does
the S800 print to the edges of each of the 3 4x6 images, or is
there a border around each of these 3 prints?

It's totally up to you. You're going to have to trim the paper with a cutter after it prints.

The three 4x6's on 8.5x11 approach is only a little cheaper than using the 4x6 paper. Let's price it out at http://www.pagecomputer.com where I buy my paper:

8.5x11 = $10.54 for 15 sheets, 45 prints at 23.4 cents each.

4x6 = $5.61 for 20 sheets, 28 cents each.

So you do save almost a nickel a print with the 8.5x11 approach, but you need to invest in a good paper cutter if you don't have one, and if you're making a test print you're going to blow an entire 8.5x11 sheet doing it.

I like the simplicity of the 4x6 perforated paper myself.

-Mike

 

[E. J. Shockley]

Thanks for your responses Bob,

If I understand your responses correctly regarding printing, the
S800 can print edge to edge on the peforated single 4x6 sheets of
photo paper.

You also noted that it is more economical to use the 8.5 x 11
sheets (on which you can get 3 4x6 images). My follow up question
is, when using the 8.5 x 11 sheets to get your 3 4x6 images, does
the S800 print to the edges of each of the 3 4x6 images, or is
there a border around each of these 3 prints?

TIA

-Todd

Todd, I own an s800. It has a print area of 7.99x10.75inches out of the center of an 8.5x11 sheet. Any images that can be contained in the print area are "edge to edge". So you can print a 7.99x10 and cut the white margins off. Or, two 3.99x6 and one 4x6 and cut off the unused paper. Or, as I do with my 3x4 aspect ratio images from my G1, four 3.99x5.32 images per page. I use QImage to set up these pages, but other software can also do it. Hopr this answers your question.

Regards, Ed