Copyright issues selling motorsport photos?

Steve Ives

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I searched for this information, (both here and in Google) but couldn't find a specific answer:

If I shoot some photos at a motor racing event in the UK, can I then offer those photos for sale or stock without having to get permission from the track management, the car owner or the driver?

Thanks in advance for any help.
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Steve

Sony F 7 0 7
Canon E O S - 1 0 D
 
Steve, I see we're talking UK here, Don't think you'll get a definitive answer on that one. I've taken stuff at low level motorsport events then offered the pix for sale, directly by tracing the sponsors shown on the cars or by putting up a web page and posting on a user forum for that particular motorsport, never had a great deal of sales and in the end not really worth the effort.

Most lower level event organisers actually charge a photographer for the privilege of taking and selling pix at an event, the photographer then has "sole" rights to selling pix taken and they get very upset if someone starts to take sales from them. Even the larger events have an "on site official" photographer who is usually known to all the teams and drivers so sales are easier, or in the case of "press" protographers, a pass has been issued to an "accredited" photographer representing a specific publication or agency.

It's worth applying for "accreditation" to the event organisers beforehand and explaining who you intend to sell pix to, at lower level events, the organisers are often glad of the publicity - but don't expect to get a press pass for the GP or similar!

You are on dodgy ground here at the moment, the event is not held in a "public place", the venue is owned by someone and you've probably paid to enter, you'll often find in the small print of the ticket or program a clause prohibiting "commercial photography", ie selling ANY pictures taken at that event, but if you're sensible and not greedy, it's probably not worth anyone trying to bring a court case against you..... but then I'm not a lawyer so don't just take my word for it!

Stock libraries are getting tougher about releases, mine now won't accept anything taken on private property without a release of some sort, if your pix show a driver who could be recognised then a release IS needed.

HTH,
 
Thanks for the feedback.

The drivers aren't recognisable apart from the numbers on the cars they're in, but I agree that the fact I'm on private property could be the deciding facor.

I've emailed the organisers so I'll see what they say.

Regards,
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Steve

Sony F 7 0 7
Canon E O S - 1 0 D
 
Well, the answer I received from the press office at the circuit was:

"Basically, the photographs are your own and as such we are unable to restrict any useage of these images. We would of course appreciate that anything that is obviously Goodwood i.e. logo, etc., would not be used for profit or gain."

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Steve

Sony F 7 0 7
Canon E O S - 1 0 D
 
All I need to do now is make sure I've got sopme decent images an d find a stock library (which I guess I can Google 'motor racing stock photography' for.



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Steve

Sony F 7 0 7
Canon E O S - 1 0 D
 
I couldn't find anything about in in their T&Cs.
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Steve

Sony F 7 0 7
Canon E O S - 1 0 D
 
This is what I got from them.

Bruce

Photography and advertising policy : Goodwood Road Racing Company Ltd holds the sole commercial photographic and filming rights for the motor circuit and airfield and no such activities are permitted unless previously approved by the Company.

Still and motion photography is permitted only for the purpose of providing memorabilia of the event taking place. The organiser shall ensure that any photographer in attendance (unless directly licensed by Goodwood) has signed the Goodwood Indemnity (see Part 6). Any invitee wishing to take photographs for commercial purposes (including sale to Participants) must seek consent from Goodwood and sign Goodwood's photography consent form.

Advertising to the public is not permitted. The use of 'Goodwood' must not be included in any event title, although the event may be given a name including 'at Goodwood' used as a suffix.
I couldn't find anything about in in their T&Cs.
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Steve

Sony F 7 0 7
Canon E O S - 1 0 D
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I'd call that "one all" at the moment, Steve has an email for GW saying it's OK, Bruce has an email from GW saying it's not!

Maybe Steve had a better approach.......?

I did say you probably wouldn't get a definitive answer.
 
I dont know but my wife works there and she found out the same info as in my letter I got from them.

regards

Bruce

ps I would just go ahead and sell them.
I'd call that "one all" at the moment, Steve has an email for GW
saying it's OK, Bruce has an email from GW saying it's not!

Maybe Steve had a better approach.......?

I did say you probably wouldn't get a definitive answer.
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Maybe I should take the email I got as permission...?

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Steve

Sony F 7 0 7
Canon E O S - 1 0 D
 
Just check with the sanctioning body. Most have websites that outline their policy towards selling of images.

Major advice: If you are caught selling pics of an event that does not allow it, you will likely never have a chance to get media credentials for the rest of your life, is it worth it?

I don't know about over there, but there are some suprisingly small motorsports events here in the states that strictly prohibit it. They have contract photographers and are very picky about the way they are portrayed to the public through photography.
 
Ignoring the issue of permission from the event organisers for the moment, what about the drivers in the cars and model releases?

None of them are recognisable from heir faces as they are all wearing crash helmets, but you could work out who they are given the car's numbers (in the photograph) and if you knew where & when the race was taking place (which you probably wouldn't)



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Steve

Sony F 7 0 7
Canon E O S - 1 0 D
Canon E O S - 1 D Mk II
 
Steve, the only problem with your remarks in your last post is that if you're going to offer them up to a stock agency as you mentioned in an earlier post - the pix all have to have full captions - who, what, why, when and where, otherwise they are of no commercial value to anyone.

As I've mentioned, my agency (fotoLibra) now only accept stuff that has (or can be obtained) releases for persons and or property - I have to sign a form saying these are available before uploading anything.

Can't really see where you can sell them if your not going to caption them, if it was the Goodwood Historic event, most of the major publications and agencies would have had it covered, any newspapers would have used anything by now and any drivers would have been approached by accredited snappers, so while they might be saleable technically, you've probably missed any sales for this year.

My advise would be to add them to CD/website and send out to agencies, magazines etc to gain accredition for future events, but be prepared for knockbacks and no replies, it's a very cut throat market (as can be seen from the snappers in the background of your pic who must have had accredition and signed an insurance waiver to be "over the barrier".
 
Yeah, but my pictures are better than theirs :-)

I was surprised to see one of the official photographers using a 10D. (I have one myself, but rented a 1D for the weekend).

Maybe I can sell them as prints at a car boot sale.

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Steve

Sony F 7 0 7
Canon E O S - 1 0 D
Canon E O S - 1 D Mk II
 
Yeah, I know the feeling!

That's the problem, the "pro's" might not look to have pro kit but they do know where and how to sell their pix. You've only got to go to any major event where the public have good access, motor, horse, air etc to see "non pro's" with some VERY expensive kit but, even with that kit and the knowledge of how to take a good shot, it's rare for any one of them to sell anything because the pro will either be paid to be there or will have a market already in mind for his/her pix and will probably be uploading from the car park before even leaving the location.

The only way a "non pro" stands a chance is by CONSISTANTLY turning out good stuff of a particular type of event and banging it in to prospective buyers on a regular basis, picture editors change jobs regularly and their favorite photographers often go with them, a new pic ed then looks to "change the style" by using new photographers who don't need to be fulltime pro - but must be able to supply the goods.

Keep snappin'.
 
Maybe I should take the email I got as permission...?

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Steve

Sony F 7 0 7
Canon E O S - 1 0 D
No. I wouldn't do that. Their press office was obviously assuming that you were using the photos for editorial purposes. In other words, you will sell the image to a publication somewhere. Commercial purposes are a different matter. If you are selling the images for personal gain, it may be considered a commercial affair.

This question has come up several times before on this forum and there is not universal agreement about what exactly constitutes commercial use. Here is one hypothetical case: you take someone's picture at the racetrack and sell it to an ad agency which publishes it with the tagline: "This man drinks coca cola and he wants you do do the same." Virtually everyone agrees that this is a commercial use which is restricted by the racetrack. Hypothetical case 2: you take a picture of a member of the crew as he is working. He likes the shot and pays you for it. Not everyone on this site agrees that this is a commercial use. I honestly am not sure, so I can't give you any suggestion about that.

I can stress, however, that the press office is used to dealing with working photojournalists who give them media exposure. They were not referring to commercial uses of your images taken at their events.

Best, Keefe.
 
I said

"However, I believe that some of these photos may have commercial value and was wondering if there are any restrictions as to their use?"

Their Press Officer said

"The photographs are your own and as such we are unable to restrict any useage of these images. We would of course appreciate that anything that is obviously Goodwood i.e. logo, etc., would not be used for profit or gain."

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Steve

Sony F 7 0 7
Canon E O S - 1 0 D
Canon E O S - 1 D Mk II
 
Well, the answer I received from the press office at the circuit was:

"Basically, the photographs are your own and as such we are unable
to restrict any useage of these images. We would of course
appreciate that anything that is obviously Goodwood i.e. logo,
etc., would not be used for profit or gain."
Extraordinary! The exact opposite of what I'd have expected them to say. And probably not legally correct - but its in your favour!

Chris.
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Freelance sports photography
http://www.hockeyphotos.com/
 

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