HP8450 - some concerns before I buy

[HoldenMan]

I'm looking at getting a new printer to replace my Canon i70.

I'm only an amateur user, not selling prints (at least, not at this stage, who knows what'll happen anytime in the next few months!). I need a printer that's capable of B&W for TAFE - but I don't want to dedicate a printer to B&W, so I want one that's good colour as well.

The HP 8450 was recommended to me, and looks quite decent.

But my concerns with this printer are:

1)tri colour ink cartridges - obviously this means that as soon as 1 colour runs out I'll be replacing the entire cartridge (there are 2 tricolour cartridges and 1 cartridge with black, or black and grey, something like that).

2) HP cartridges are rather expensive compared to other brands due to the print heads being included in the cartridge. - on ebay the cartridges go for a little over half price though......

However, the print quality of this printer is quite good, and it seems to be one of the few printers that you can choose to print using the black/grey inks only, so no colour casts

But yeah....what are your thoughts on the tricolour cartridge and cartridge costs? Does it end up going through the tricolour cartridges quite quickly with a lot of wasted ink in the other colours?

If it's going to end up being a lot more expensive than other printers to run in terms of ink then I'll have to rule the 8450 out of possible printers.....for me, the two points I mentioned are potentially rather big downfalls, but you guys might know better how significant those 2 things really are

 

[Richard Wait]

I had one of these - its a real nice printer. I loved the output...and would probably still have on.

However within two weeks I needed A3 printing, so I got a i9950, then I realised the longevity limitations and two months down the line I got a r1800, with I'm still really happy with...

I would consider the r800, if the ink costs (in your mind) seem expensive.

--
Regards - Richard



My Site - http://www.richardwait.com
/ http://www.fourthirdsFAQ.com

 

[MadIgor]

I would consider the r800, if the ink costs (in your mind) seem
expensive.

I would not, it will eat up half a cartridge for cleaning clogged jets, HP is not too expensive since it dont vaste ink like Epson does and with every new cartridge you have new printhead and perfect print quality

 

[Richard Wait]

with every new cartridge you have new printhead and
perfect print quality

That is very true...

--
Regards - Richard



My Site - http://www.richardwait.com
/ http://www.fourthirdsFAQ.com

 

[Jorge Luis]

Holdenman,

I own both the r800 and the hp8450.

The printout from the 8450 is better (since it is a dye based printer). The
r800 is still nice. One major difference between them lies in the paper
(read on below).

The 8450 uses swellable paper (the key to the permanence of its prints).
This makes for extending drying times (weeks in my environment).

Also, placing HP prints in a scrap book without plastic interleave allows the
black ink of one print to go onto the facing print. One option is not to use
the HP swellable paper (premium plus) and use a nanoporous (quick
drying paper). Print longevity, however, will no longer be guaranteed (and this

illustrates that the HP printer can also make waterproof, quick drying prints - i.e.
that it is the paper which determines quick drying / longevity and
not the printer / ink itself).

Epson's quick drying, nanoporous, premium glossy paper (when used with any printer,

including the r800) has a yet a different problem. When placed in a scrapbook and forced to face other inkjet paper prints, there is no ink transfer. In fact, all is well if inkjet prints face inkjet prints. However, when epson premium glossy prints face glossy prints made from the photofinisher, epson premium glossy paper will stick with glossy paper prints from the fotofinisher. Separating the prints with a plastic sleeve will presumably prevent this.

These are the main problems with each printer (other than differences in B&W capability and the fact that one uses pigment inks and the other uses dye inks). Longevity for

both types of prints appears excellent. I mention the storage problems because I never hear them mentioned. My own solution is to own both printers (and use either of them

for whatever ocassion suits them best - keeping in mind how they are going to be stored).

Hope this is helpful.

Sincerely,
Jorge

 

[Jorge Luis]

Holderman,

Whoops, I forgot to answer your main question. I think that ink costs of the HP ink are higher (compared to epson) because each cart has a new printhead included. I cannot comment on the Canon and am assuming that Epson and Canon are similar since they both use separate carts.

I think that HP designs the cartridge so that the ink runs out more or less at the same time. I cannot back this up, however. Consider this statement in the realm of rumor (wishful thinking?).

Also, remember that when an ink cartridge is changed on the Epson (I don't know about canon), the ink system is flushed (wasting ink). Since there are more carts to change on
the Epson and Canon, this may eat into the savings of having a multicart system.

STill, the point is that it is the inclusion of a new printhead that dominates the cost difference with the HP 8450 and not whether or not separate carts are used.

The above are just observations (and not based on any fact). Hope that someone can
supply you with the data you need.

Take care,
Jorge

 

[Biu]

I found HP's ink cost actually lower in real life use. (I have a Epson R200 and a HP2710).

HP's cartridge is priced higher but don't forget that it contains 3 colours. In Canada, 97 and 99 ink with 150 4x6 paper is $64. To get all 6 colour Epson ink, the cheapest is $89.

Also, Epson uses up a lot of ink cleaning heads while the HP don't need cleaning as often. If you don't print every day, HP carts lasts a lot longer.

With HP, you get a new print head with every cartridge. Also, in general use, all 3 colours in one cartridge got use about the same so there is not as much waste as you think. In my Epson, the light cyan and light magenta always need replacement pretty much the same time and yellow, cyan and magenta at the same time.

For print quality, I would say Epson has a bit higher resolution to my eyes. Its water resistance is also a lot better than HP. Epson's premium glossy paper is very nice. Even the HP prints better picture on the Epson paper compared to the HP Premium Plus photo paper.

On the other hand, HP has better colour reproduction and is a lot faster. If you also print text, HP wins hands down. HP's text output is true laser quality with the black ink cartridge while the Epson looks like first generation inkjet.

Biu

 

[HoldenMan]

Would I be correct in saying that the HP does better, and more neutral, B&W?

What are the other differences (eg noticeable differences in print quality - is the HP better?)

Thanks a ton for the interesting notes on the paper and stuff though!

 

[yankel]

Is it possible to acheive good results using Epson Premium Luster Photo paper with a HP 8450? What settings should be used?
Thanks

 

[PeterSTL]

I've owned an 8450 for a couple of months. I haven't kept a running count on prints but I have done quite a lot and have yet to have to change either tricolor cartridge - although one is now getting pretty low. It looks as though HP designs them to run out of all three colors at approximately the same time. You'll find that you will run through the photo black cartridge must faster. I have already changed this one twice and have not done a lot of B&W printing so it is obviously used for color prints as well. I can't compare this printer to the Epson since I've never had one but I can say that the B&W quality out of this printer is great - no color cast at all. The overall print quality also easily matches the prints I've gotten from photo labs. I have also experimented with a few different papers and have found the quality to be very good without custom profiles. Although not archival, you can print with good results on nanoporous papers (I use Ilford Smooth Pearl a lot) and Epson heavyweight matte. Presumably you can spray them for longer lasting results. Haven't tried this yet but am planning on it. Hope this helps.
--
Pete F.

 

[RLD]

--I generally agree with the previous comments, but thought I'd add to them.

I've had my 8450 since Jan, and it has been trouble free. I've mostly printed on the HP Premium, or Premium PLus paper. To dry completely seems to take a long time. I've been making prints which I needed to put almost immediarely into plastic notebook sleeves. They stick a littie, but the plastic lifts off with no permanent effect. I think they would have to sit out for days, or more to not stick at all.

The color has been a close match to my Sharp brand LCD display without any calibration beyond Adobe Gamma.

Someone mentioned his Epson cartridges emptying out with light cyan & light magenta at a similar rate, and the cyan, magenta & yellow also at a similar rate. The HP 97, and 99 cartridges are grouped the same way, which should minimize wasted ink. Also, the #100 Photo Gray cartridge empties more than twice as fast as the color cartridges (when printing clor images!). Apparently use of the black and gray inks to darken the photos reduces cobsumption of the color inks.

It's now possible to take the #102 Photo Gray cartridge used in the HP8750 and use it in the 8450. This has 50% more ink than the #100, but only costs 20% more - $30 vs $25.

The other possible cost saving is paper sales. Here in Los Angeles the office supply stores such, as Office Depot, and Staples, have been having 2 packages for price of 1 sales on HP Premium or HP Premium PLus paper every 2 or three weeks. So, while reading the Sunday funnies, I also check the ads for printer paper sales.

RLD

 

[DvS1]

I was in Office Depot looking at this printer as well. From what the saleman told me, they are releasing an 8 color printer soon. Apparently it has 3 separte b&w shades. I looked at some examples and you can really tell a difference. I am going to wait, he also said it would be in the $300 range, so if you want to spend more than you should wait.
--
Rebel XT (1st dSLR)
I know nothing, but enjoy everything.

 

[RLD]

I was in Office Depot looking at this printer as well. From what
the saleman told me, they are releasing an 8 color printer soon.
Apparently it has 3 separte b&w shades. I looked at some examples
and you can really tell a difference. I am going to wait, he also
said it would be in the $300 range, so if you want to spend more
than you should wait.
--
Rebel XT (1st dSLR)
I know nothing, but enjoy everything.

--

That explains the mystery of why they were discounting the 8450 at Staples. $140 a week ago, and I think lower now.

I'd bet that HP is making it a letter size version of the 8750 by using the #101 cartridge that has blue ink in one chamber.
We'll see...

RLD

 

[DvS1]

yeah, the step up from the 6 separaete coloe 8250.
--
Rebel XT (1st dSLR)
I know nothing, but enjoy everything.

 

[Biu]

I don't know about Luster paper. I only have Epson Premium Glossy Paper. On my HP2710 with the 97 and 99 cart, I just select HP Premium Plus as the paper type and the prints look more like real photo than on HP paper.

Biu

 

[Jorge Luis]

Holderman,

HP8450's b&w is superb (by design).

Never tried this on the r800, but I cannot imagine the r800 excelling in this.

Looks like you are getting a lot of good (neutral) info from everybody.

Take care,
Jorge

 

[Jerre]

There are also other HP office version printers that have individual color cartridges for just about the same price. This would make the ink even less of a cost factor. I think the resolution is 'only' 2400 dpi instead of 4800 but on a print that won't make any difference.

The new HP printer is supposed to have a blue multi-color cartridge. This might be in response to Canon's new green color cartridge. Every manufacturer has to have a gimic.
--
http://www.garageglamour.com/portfolios/greatphotos

 

[colourgeek]

The inks run out at around the same time if you print "average scenes". Theya re designed to lay down the dilutions of ink at proportianal amounts and they work quite well indeed. Recently they heeded to the demands and have a small 8250 printer with separate cartridges. The separate cartridges will do little in the way of ink economy. I can say that the older Epson printers I had were designed to waste ink and you definately did throw away a lot of inks by default as they were not designed with the dilution amounts as HP have done.

The HP has high quality color and B&W with very good archival life. I still consider the HP B&W from the tri grey cartridges to be my reference. The color is equal to a photolab print so no issues image quality wise.

The inks are expensive compared to the pro lines like the DJ printers. By changing the head everytime you change inks you guarantee the longevity of the printer with a image quality from day one until the end of the printer's life. Not such a bad thing as the 8450 will produce prints as good as a darkroom so you'll not have any doubts as to image quality even with the advances in speed etc with updated printers.

Easy printing with great quality, and one that does excellent B&W. Don't hesitate.

--
Neil Snape photographer Paris http://www.neilsnape.com

 

[colourgeek]

Is it possible to acheive good results using Epson Premium Luster
Photo paper with a HP 8450? What settings should be used?

Use Epson Colorlife on the HP SoftGloss settings or Premium Plus.

It is actually the same paper as the Ilford Classic Satin which although not as good as the HP, has archival life for dyes.

--
Neil Snape photographer Paris http://www.neilsnape.com

 

[colourgeek]

yeah, the step up from the 6 separaete coloe 8250.

It's not a great printer. You'll have to wait a long while before the new technology sees it's way up the ladder. The 8450 is much better at imaging and considering it's new pricing seriously don't hesitate!

--
Neil Snape photographer Paris http://www.neilsnape.com