DNG conversion = no EXIF info!!!!

[Tijean]

I know that I should've run a test back of a few files, but it was 1am and I was trying to shrink things down to backup to my new external harddrive.

So I converted ALL of my PEFs to DNGs and deleted the PEFs. I went for the "do not embed" option because, hey, why convert if you're keeping the old file? Why not just keep the converter for later use if you need it.

So tonight I come home, load pictures, convert the new files, delete the PEFs, and open up Photoshop. A couple pictures into it I get curious as to what lens one was taken with and open up Pentax Browser. It's ALL gone!

I have a couple of new lenses I'm skill evaluating, so this really sucks. Ug ug ug. It's just EXIF information! Why not keep it intact!?

--
http://www.apt131.com/photolog.html

'This is easy for us Chinese...just look at the pictures, ignore
his comments in English...'

 

[RonJohn]

I immediately checked my dng files after reading your horror story; I must have used the 'embed' option because all the EXIF info is still intact. Thanks for pointing this out. Sorry about your loss.
--
Ron Johnson
http://www.pbase.com/ronk7uv

 

[Godfrey]

You should never have deleted your original PEF files. You can always generate a DNG from a PEF, but you can't go the other way.

That said, download the LATEST DNG Converter and Camera Raw plug-in, v3.1, from Adobe. DNG files made with this version save all the data in the .PEF file.

(You'll need Photoshop Elements v3.0 or Photoshop CS2 to use Camera Raw v3.1. Only CS2 allows you access to ACR 3.1's latest advanced features, but it works fine in Basic mode with PE3.)

Godfrey

 

[Jonas B]

Hmm, too me that sounds as you opened Pentax Browser (an application I never even tried) to read the exif data from the dng files. And failed. Not strange, I doubt Pentax browser can read exif data from a dng file.

Please tell me you used DNG Converter 3.1 and surely you can read the exif data from inside Photoshop by pressing Ctrl+Alt+Shift+I at the same time. Or do you use older versions maybe of the software(s)? (Which you probably do as things usually doesn't get solved that easy. And then I feel sorry about all the data you lost.)

BTW: Neurotic student and sales analyst I can understand. But what is "FT"? One of theese questions...

Jonas

-snip-
A couple pictures into it I
get curious as to what lens one was taken with and open up Pentax
Browser.

 

[kristian2000]

You should never have deleted your original PEF files. You can
always generate a DNG from a PEF, but you can't go the other way.

That said, download the LATEST DNG Converter and Camera Raw
plug-in, v3.1, from Adobe. DNG files made with this version save
all the data in the .PEF file.

(You'll need Photoshop Elements v3.0 or Photoshop CS2 to use Camera
Raw v3.1. Only CS2 allows you access to ACR 3.1's latest advanced
features, but it works fine in Basic mode with PE3.)

Godfrey

Why not? I've been converting to DNG and deleting the PEFs for some time now, at least to my eye the DNGs look exactly like the PEFs, and given the absurdly large file size of the PEFs, the space saving is significant.

And I certainly don't worry about Adobe going under anytime some, and believe that DNG support will be well supported.

--
Kristian Farren
http://kf3.net/gallery/

 

[leorimkus]

I also do not use "embed" option, but all EXIF information is still present. Maybe You have unchecked some other related option? I can't check now, but as I remember there is an option in Photoshop to leave or to remove all metadata when saving.

--



http://zoom.tinkle.lt

 

[richx]

I use DNG Converter 3.1, and find all the EXIF information I require still intact. I'm not sure about lens information tho, because I only have 1 lens at the moment. Too bad Pentax doesn't do RAW compression in-camera. It's quite silly to see one folder of 244 PEF files coming in at 2.44GB get reduced to 1.28GB after converting them to DNGs. And no I didn't keep my PEFs after that.

DNGs do seem to take more time to open in Photoshop, but on the plus side ACR doesn't generate another .xml file like it does when you import PEFs.

--
http://arang.mine.nu/coalmine

 

[kristian2000]

I just double checked and I have the embed option unchecked ( do not embed), I also can see all the usual exif in my pics, ISO, lens mm, etc.
Are you doing "save for web" in PS? that option strips the exif.

--
Kristian Farren
http://kf3.net/gallery/

 

[peter_b]

Hi,

I peeked inside my DNGs (made with ver. 3.1 and "do not imbed" option), and most EXIF information is present. There is no choice in this - but some of the exif data is converted to the new XMP format (though not as much as PSE3), and because of the proprietary nature of Pentax Maker Notes, you won't find any explicit Lens information nor any of the the other Maker Note fields. I think the Maker Notes are discarded quite comprehensively by DNG Converter.

My choice is to use Pentax Photo Browser to save the Exif info in the originals as a csv file, because most subsequent non-pentax software will discard or (in case of Paint Shop Pro 8) corrupt the maker notes. Phil Harvey's excellent Image Tool, while a little clumsy for a non Perl type like me, can read the DNG and could also be used to re-insert maker notes back into a JPG (but not the DNGs I think).

By the way, Exifer won't allow editing of most EXIF fields in Pentax *istDS images, apparently because of the MakerNotes.

Peter

 

[John Bean (UK)]

I think the
Maker Notes are discarded quite comprehensively by DNG Converter.

If you use the latest (3.1) version the MakerNote is not discarded but is saved verbatim. It isn't interpreted or represented in the EXIF but it isn't discarded - comprehensively or otherwise - either.

Have a look at the latest DNG spec if you're interested in this sort of stuff.

--
John Bean

PAW 2005 Week 30:



See: http://waterfoot.smugmug.com/paw

 

[Tijean]

Thanks Godfrey! I'll try it out and see what happens when I don't embed the file. I know that the call of the day is save save save, but I'm working with a computer on it's last leg and a limited amount of external harddrive space. I've heard so many horror stories about CD's deteriorating that I don't know about trusting those.

--
http://www.apt131.com/photolog.html

'This is easy for us Chinese...just look at the pictures, ignore
his comments in English...'

 

[Tijean]

Hmm, too me that sounds as you opened Pentax Browser (an
application I never even tried) to read the exif data from the dng
files. And failed. Not strange, I doubt Pentax browser can read
exif data from a dng file.
Please tell me you used DNG Converter 3.1 and surely you can read
the exif data from inside Photoshop by pressing Ctrl+Alt+Shift+I at
the same time. Or do you use older versions maybe of the
software(s)? (Which you probably do as things usually doesn't get
solved that easy. And then I feel sorry about all the data you
lost.)

Ah HA! I can see very basic EXIF in PS CS2. The weird thing is, if I open a RAW file from my Nikon CP 4500 in Pentax's Browser, I can see almost everything. Weird weird weird. I am using 3.1. I think. Hmmm... the one that came with CS2. I'll go ahead and download the update just for kicks.

BTW: Neurotic student and sales analyst I can understand. But what
is "FT"? One of theese questions...

Full time. Admittedly, I usually drop down to 30ish hours a week at work when I have a full course load.

Jonas

-snip-
A couple pictures into it I
get curious as to what lens one was taken with and open up Pentax
Browser.

--
http://www.apt131.com/photolog.html

'This is easy for us Chinese...just look at the pictures, ignore
his comments in English...'

 

[Godfrey]

You should never have deleted your original PEF files. You can
always generate a DNG from a PEF, but you can't go the other way.

Why not? I've been converting to DNG and deleting the PEFs for some
time now, at least to my eye the DNGs look exactly like the PEFs,
and given the absurdly large file size of the PEFs, the space
saving is significant.
And I certainly don't worry about Adobe going under anytime some,
and believe that DNG support will be well supported.

I'm not worried about Adobe going under either. ;-)

For the reason I stated above very clearly ... you can make a DNG from a PEF any time, but you cannot make a PEF from a DNG ... you should always save your PEF files. They are guaranteed to contain all the original data your camera generated, by definition. DNG is an evolving standard. There have already been two revisions of the DNG Converter, each of which has done a better job than the original. There is no evidence to support the notion that there are no future improvements possible.

Adobe recommends you archive your camera's original RAW format files for this specific reason.

Godfrey

 

[Jonas B]

See... Congrats!

The basic info provided at least covers focal length, shutter time and aperture plus some other blabberish not needed to see what lens you used.

Full Time all that... I understand you forgot about the Ctrl+Alt+Shift+I thing...

regards,

Jonas

Hmm, too me that sounds as you opened Pentax Browser (an
application I never even tried) to read the exif data from the dng
files. And failed. Not strange, I doubt Pentax browser can read
exif data from a dng file.
Please tell me you used DNG Converter 3.1 and surely you can read
the exif data from inside Photoshop by pressing Ctrl+Alt+Shift+I at
the same time. Or do you use older versions maybe of the
software(s)? (Which you probably do as things usually doesn't get
solved that easy. And then I feel sorry about all the data you
lost.)

Ah HA! I can see very basic EXIF in PS CS2. The weird thing is, if
I open a RAW file from my Nikon CP 4500 in Pentax's Browser, I can
see almost everything. Weird weird weird. I am using 3.1. I think.
Hmmm... the one that came with CS2. I'll go ahead and download the
update just for kicks.

BTW: Neurotic student and sales analyst I can understand. But what
is "FT"? One of theese questions...

Full time. Admittedly, I usually drop down to 30ish hours a
week at work when I have a full course load.

Jonas

-snip-
A couple pictures into it I
get curious as to what lens one was taken with and open up Pentax
Browser.

--
http://www.apt131.com/photolog.html

'This is easy for us Chinese...just look at the pictures, ignore
his comments in English...'

 

[alex wetmore]

I use DNG Converter 3.1, and find all the EXIF information I
require still intact. I'm not sure about lens information tho,
because I only have 1 lens at the moment. Too bad Pentax doesn't do
RAW compression in-camera. It's quite silly to see one folder of
244 PEF files coming in at 2.44GB get reduced to 1.28GB after
converting them to DNGs. And no I didn't keep my PEFs after that.

You can get a 250gb hard disk for about $100 these days, plus $40 if you want it in an external USB 2.0 case. 250gb will hold about 18,000 PEF files (250,000 / 14). Two of them is probably better to have a backup, but these are still pretty minor costs.

I'd like a smaller RAW format too, but the large files bother me more on camera (where 1gb costs about $70) than on my computer (where 1gb costs about 40 cents, or 80 cents if it is backed up). That is roughly 1 cent per image backed up.

Maybe I'm just too used to film where I spent 70 cents per image for the cost of film and development. And I didn't get a backup.

alex

 

[Tijean]

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=14410243

I use DNG Converter 3.1, and find all the EXIF information I
require still intact. I'm not sure about lens information tho,
because I only have 1 lens at the moment. Too bad Pentax doesn't do
RAW compression in-camera. It's quite silly to see one folder of
244 PEF files coming in at 2.44GB get reduced to 1.28GB after
converting them to DNGs. And no I didn't keep my PEFs after that.

You can get a 250gb hard disk for about $100 these days, plus $40
if you want it in an external USB 2.0 case. 250gb will hold about
18,000 PEF files (250,000 / 14). Two of them is probably better to
have a backup, but these are still pretty minor costs.

I'd like a smaller RAW format too, but the large files bother me
more on camera (where 1gb costs about $70) than on my computer
(where 1gb costs about 40 cents, or 80 cents if it is backed up).
That is roughly 1 cent per image backed up.

Maybe I'm just too used to film where I spent 70 cents per image
for the cost of film and development. And I didn't get a backup.

alex

--
http://www.apt131.com/photolog.html

'This is easy for us Chinese...just look at the pictures, ignore
his comments in English...'

 

[J. Francis]

So tonight I come home, load pictures, convert the new files,
delete the PEFs, and open up Photoshop. A couple pictures into it I
get curious as to what lens one was taken with and open up Pentax
Browser. It's ALL gone!

No - it's just not where Pentax Browser expects to find it.
A real EXIF-aware application will find most of the data for you.
I'm sure the Pentax Browser looks mostly in the MakerNote tag.

I have a couple of new lenses I'm skill evaluating, so this really
sucks. Ug ug ug. It's just EXIF information! Why not keep it
intact!?

For one thing, it's not all EXIF information. There is no EXIF field
that stores information about the actual lens in use. You can get
focal length and aperture, which can often be enough to identify
the lens, but you won't get the unique lens identification code.

One piece of good news; if you're using DNG converter 3.x, the
actual Pentax MakerNote tag is stored intact in the created DNG file.
It would be fairly straightforward to write a little application that
looked inside the stored copy for the lens identification information.