D2x and discipline for sharp images

[Zane Paxton]

I have had the D2x for about a week and have only done one outing where I did a bunch of test shots. Observation: The camera is EXTREMELY intolerant of sloppy technique. The images were softer than expected and I believe that the softness is from camera shake caused by various things.

Using a lightweight tripod or a tripod with the center column extended will accentuate camera shake. I have a Gitzo 1228 CF with a RRS BH-55 Ball Head and had the center column fully extended in one of the fuzziest shots.

I could see obvious "mirror slap" from the camera in the viewfinder in the above scenario. I was amazed by how much. I was shooting with the 70-200mm VR, mounted on the lens collar (with a RRS foot). That setup on top of the extended center column was a bad idea...

F-stops over 11 start to add softness due to light diffraction on the sensor's small photosites (according to Thom Hogan's eBook, worth getting by the way). F/22 was indeed softer that expected....

Soft conditions under the tripod: Some of the softer shots were from a wooden deck with someone else walking on it. One was with the tripod forced into iceplant (not super solid).

Handheld shots. Used to be able to get sharp shots from a wide angle at 1/90th most times if I held my breath and hadn't had any coffee. Not so with the D2x.

Possible mitigations:

I'm going to try hanging my (heavy) camera bag from the hook on the bottom of the center column on my Gitzo 1227 to see if that helps (inertia), keeping the center column all the way down tight (maximum stiffness) and try mirror lock-up before exposures. I'm using a corded electronic shutter release of course.

Fussy for sure; but that looks like the level of discipline that is required. Otherwise, the subtle camera shake will make the resulting images look like images from a 6 mp camera....

Does that match the experience of other D2x users? Any other best practices? Lessons learned?

PS:

My lenses used:

Nikkor 17-35mm AFS
Nikkor 28-70mm AFS
Nikkor 70-200mm VR

Thanks,

Cheers,
--
Zane
http://www.pbase.com/devonshire

Nikon D2x & Fuji S2

 

[Steve Bingham]

ALL raw files need some sharpening in post - or they will look soft.
--
Steve Bingham
http://www.dustylens.com

 

[Alex2003]

I just want to follow this thread, even I'm not a D2X lucky owner.......
I just wonder if there is a camera more sensible than an other on shake....

And the higher resolution cannot be an issue, otherwise when we all used the analogic cameras with Velvia 50 we should have the same problems compared to a low resoluition film....
I think some d2x expert out there already have a good answer for this!
And also I think is something more "software" than due to your discipline...

I'll wait with you an answer and if you don't mind it copuld be nice to have some of these images for a correct evaluation.

Alex

 

[onmouse]

I agree on not going above f 11. With the 17-35 there are problems in the corners at 17 mm. About white balance i have to set it lower on the D2X than on D2H. Now i use Robin Mayers grey card, Kodak greycard are useless. I spent 3 days with Rob Gailbraith, and learn a lot, use at least 2 step USM in photoshop, first time to compensate for filter effect, amount 175 %, radius 0.3 , threshold 2. Second time for printing about, 200 %, radius 0.5 threshold 3. I use Nikon capture to convert RAW, but no shapening. i do all sharpening in PS, remember to fade USM in PS, use luminans 100 %, repeat after using USM.

Hope you can use some off this.

Have a nice day !

Regards Onmouse

 

[il mando]

I can more or less confirm your experience with D2X being extremely intolerant regarding shooting technique. As I don't shoot with a tripod except when I want to do some serious landscape or macro work (in that case I use a Gitzo 2220 and a sturdy Manfrotto head), I have to say I'm a little disappointed by D2X behaviour. Even if I put maximum care in my shooting technique, if I shoot a 10 pics sequence (NOT burst) in Af single, at 1/1000 f7.1 with the 70-200 VR at 200mm, I get 3 keepers, 5 "acceptable" shots (if you don't look them at 100% magnification) and 2 bad focused ones. And I don't see what changed in my handholding technique in the 10 shots sequence (I always try to shoot with the same care, and always steadier than I usually am in the field). I admit that there are times when I know I'm shooting in "limit situations" (poor light / slow shutter speed), so I can expect the shot to come out unperfect and I can understand the reasons. But I really hate when I can't understand where the error lies. I had the D2x sent in for check and Nikon test software said the camera is working within AF factory parameters. I admit I'm a little bit of a freak in terms of sharpness, but I have to say I'm not fully satisfied with D2x and its sharpness, expecially because most of my candids are now blurry...

I tried to set the D2X in the "medium" picture size (approx. 3300x2200 pixel) to see if things got better and my eventual poor technique was "saved" by the fact that the pixel density in the image was less than the full 12 mpixel mode (ok, I know that things aren't this easy, but I wanted to see if this might mitigate the blurry effect, more or less like when you downsize a blurry image to get it a little bit sharper...). No way. Still more or less the same amount of pics not properly in focus/blurred. As I said in another thread, I have a friend with good connections to Nikon Japan who told me that they're working on a new firmware for D2x, specifically designed to correct some focus issues. After all, Canon mkII series got a firmware upgrade to improve the focus too, and from what I heard from some friends who are Canon users, they had the same issues until the new firmware was released (I know people who used their mkII cameras with manual focus, until the new firmware got out...).
Best regards (sorry for my poor english).

Alfredo - Italy

 

[Grant158746]

Don't be so quick to blame your technique or theorize about small pixels. Nikon is up to their waist in D2X's in for focus repair. Some on their second and third trip and many have been replaced with newer cameras. The focus problem is real and they are making good but you'll need to send your camera to service. Mine is scheduled for return today. I'll keep you posted.

 

[MaartenL]

Could it be that the rather fierce mirror slap is too much for handheld shooting and even some tripod use ? When i shoot handheld, i always see that the image in the viewfinder has slightly moved after the mirror comes back.

Maarten

 

[robbfromstoke]

heyho

i luckly own this fine piece and i expirienced some not so sharp pictures from the combo D2X and 12-24 Sigma

So i started to investigate after exchanging the Sigma by my local dealer

First

Tripod, heavy one

Second

Mirror up, there is fine solution from nikon here, you can choose the mirror up on top of the d2x or in the menu...

If you choose that one in the menu the mirror rises up and after 1 or 2 seconds the pictures is taken

Try this and as i tried it i gathered more sharp pictures!!

Hope i helped and let me know your expirience!!!

take care

Robert

 

[fotonyc]

This movement is not due to mirror slap. It is the VR. As it engages and disengages you will see the image move in the view finder.

I have a D2X and had used a rented 1DSII for a week some time ago, before the AF firmware upgrade. I did not notice any need for changing shooting technique when using the 1DSII to get sharp images that clearly showed much more detail than a 20D. The D2X is not giving me results as sharp and detailed as it should. Could be the AF of the camera, the lens or the combination (or maybe the VR) but it is not because a high MP DSLR requires different technique.

Could it be that the rather fierce mirror slap is too much for
handheld shooting and even some tripod use ? When i shoot handheld,
i always see that the image in the viewfinder has slightly moved
after the mirror comes back.

Maarten

--
http://www.fotonyc.net/Gallery

 

[Frank I Reiter]

I purchased "The Sharpest Image", which reports on a very detailed set of tests done to determine the effect of various techniques and gear on achieving critically sharp images. I found it quite worthwhile. My images are sharper now.

http://www.diglloyd.com/diglloyd/infos/TheSharpestImage/TheSharpestImage-info.html

(I have no financial interest in the above. I'm just a satisfied customer.)

Frank.
--
Ottawa, Canada. http://www.frank.net/

 

[MaartenL]

Hi fotonyc,

What i meant was that i see a difference in the viewfinder between:
1. Just right before the mirror going up.
2. and after the mirror coming down again.
I notice this also with the 17-55, so it can't be only VR i would think.

So what i really mean: isn't it possible that the rather fierce movement of the mirror actually causes some camera movement, making it harder to get sharp handheld shots ?

Then again, the D2X body is the same as the D2H, so that body would have to have the same problem then. (which apparently it hasn't)

Maarten

 

[Rich Gibson]

I can confirm your observations. As I mentioned in another similar thread I have both the D2X and D2H. My keeprs on the D2X are about half the ones on the D2H.

I can't explain others' strong denial of the small pixel phenomenon and am not suggesting any unreasonable arguments on their part. My D2X functions perfectly unless I "snap" off a shot, in which case it is usually soft. If I am deliberate the image is stunning. If I'm going to shoot sports action I now take the D2H.

I think we've discoverd the point of diminishing returns on pixel size.

Rich

 

[glacierpete]

This is because your filmsize (24x36) did not change. It is the opposite effect of going from 35mm to medium format, when people experienced that medium format was more forgiving. It is a mixture of smaller sensor and higher pixeldensity that makes the difference.

I just want to follow this thread, even I'm not a D2X lucky
owner.......
I just wonder if there is a camera more sensible than an other on
shake....
And the higher resolution cannot be an issue, otherwise when we all
used the analogic cameras with Velvia 50 we should have the same
problems compared to a low resoluition film....
I think some d2x expert out there already have a good answer for this!
And also I think is something more "software" than due to your
discipline...

I'll wait with you an answer and if you don't mind it copuld be
nice to have some of these images for a correct evaluation.

Alex

 

[Steve Thanos]

I must be one of the lucky majority you don't hear from with their D2X. It's true we're going to hear about the issue from the people having problems and that may seem like all the cameras have the problem but they don't. I have always been very critical of sharp photos but my D2X never gives me any cause to think about focus issues. When a picture is out of focus it's my fault. My 70-200 VR is astoundingly sharp and 95% of the time it's wide open. The only lens that my D2X made look less sharp than it was on my Fuji S2 is the Tamron 28-75 2.8. It's a great lens but the D2X will find your best lenses very quickly and separate them from the weaker ones. sending the Tamron to Tamron and waiting a month for it's return only resulted in a lens that wide open was about the same as it was before.
Steve

Nikon 12-24
Tamron 28-75 2.8
50 1.4
Nikon 70-200 2.8 VR

 

[Jarkko Haarla Jr]

"1/shutter speed" has turned into "1/shutter speed times two". The D2x AF may also be very fast to react to "monkey hand shutter releases", just as the camera is very prone to reveal camera shake. The pixel theory holds also true; a 2mpx DX-format sensor won´t show on pixel-to-pixel level a shake that is clearly visible in an 12mpx image.

Having sloppy technique you get sloppy images with the D2x - that is a fact. Much more punishing than the D100 as what comes to revealing bad technique from wannabe professional having a professional camera.

High resolution, ISO 100 and demanding AF makes a camera really demanding to shoot with thus making people wondering where their shooting skills disappeared. An ISO 200 Nikon D100 with slow AF and 6mpx is a much easier camera for amateurs.

Let´s see when they bring a 25 mpx DSLR to the market... at least pro´s and tech-freaks will be happy... but not the rest.

 

[Grant158746]

Say what you will but, some d2X's have focus problems. Check out the forums and there are many. Not long ago many dismissed the D2H problems to user error. We all know the rest of the story.

Best to send the 2X in and have it checked. Upload a few samples first for their opinion.

 

[JoeMu]

What you described here reminds me of the ol' days when I started using Kodaks Technical Pan for the first time. This film is so incredibly sharp, that it's not forgiving any slopieness in technique/lenses - like the DX2.

Why: 1. this film is probably the sharpest film ever made - at least for commercial applications

2. you know the film is almost grainles so you blow it up to sizes you were only dreaming of before - any camera shake or imperfections of the lenses get greatly magnified.

3. I ended up trying to improve on my technique and spending a lot of money for a really good tripod....

I gues what you descriebed just shows, how good the D2X really is !!!!!!!!!

 

[voider]

Hi,

I am torn between the 17-55 and 28-70 and for me the best choice seems to be the 17-35 + 28-70 right now. The only problem is that it is a really expensive investment.

Visit http://www.voider.net
(Still in production)

 

[Bernard Languillier]

I always use MLU when shooting on tripod. Using the central column is overall not a good idea, although it is sometimes needed to save time in some situations.

When shooting handheld, I have found the 17-55 to work very well balancewise. I am getting many more critically sharp images than I used to with the 18-70, independantly from the inherent sharpness of the lens I believe.

Regards,
Bernard

 

[fabgo]

Not sure about extremely intolerant. I get plenty of sharp photos with the D2x hand-held. As long as the shutter speed is 1/focal length * 2, images are consistently sharp. But the same was true for film.

As for shooting with a tripod: placing tripods on wooden decks while somebody is walking on them, planting tripod legs in plants and other soft organic matter and not using mirror lock-up isn't exactly great tripod technique (also, make sure VR is turned off while shooting from the tripod, or I can guarantee you bad results). On the other hand, I haven't found that I need to weight down the tripod or use an extra sturdy tripod in order to get sharp images (I use a Bogen 3443 which is OK, but not exactly stellar).

Overall I'd say the D2x needs the same care and attention as 35mm Velvia film to get the sharpest images (which makes sense, since the resolving power is about equal).

--
Fabian Gonzales
http://www.goldengateimages.com/