Archival DVDs - what brand?

[brianz112832]

Sorry, search is down... what's a good archival DVD brand? I don't even know what "archival" means for DVDs. I've been using regular Memorex DVDs but now I hear you need to get archival DVDs... any help?

Thanks,

Brian
--
Wildlife galleries
http://www.pbase.com/zeiler/

 

[Skidpan]

I believe that the Verbatim Metal AZ DVD's are good for archiving, but it would be useful if someone else who know a bit more could shed some light on this.

 

[il mando]

One of the greatest DVD maker - on the quality point of view - is Mitsui, but they're really hard to find. Generally speaking, the best dvd are the ones from Tayio Yuden (hope I wrote it right), which manufactures some of the Verbatim branded dvds (specifically the ones that are coloured cyan or pink on the upper side). The regular Verbatim DVD are manufactured by Mitsubishi (if you read the header of the TOC it reports "MCC" that stands for "Mitsubishi Chemical Company") and they're good to, as the TDK are. If you want to know something more about the media you're using, you can use DVD Info Pro (shareware).
Best regards

Alfredo from Italy

 

[technicsplayer.]

many people regard taiyo yuden as the best followed closely by ritek G04 and G05 dyes, I have found these to have very low error rates of all the disks I've tried. As to long term I doubt if anyone really knows beyond extrapolating the standard heating/freezing/ultraviolet etc ageing tests.

 

[all_digital]

How long do you expect to keep the "archival" material? Expect to pass it on to your great great great grandchildren?

By then DVD's may be like 8 track tapes.
--
Art

 

[nero2]

You're best bet is to use quality commodity DVDRs now, and resign yourself to updating them to the latest and greatest format a few years from now. Taiyo Yuden and Mitsui are considered the best manufacturers of DVDR media right now. You can get 4x TY DVD-Rs for less than $.40/disc now.

Like always, you shouldn't rely exclusively on a single format for backup. If you don't already, consider adding a single, large hard drive to your setup to serve as additional backup.

Also, burning two different copies of the same data and storing them in different locations would be a good idea as well.

--
Graphic Design for print, web, and broadcast:
http://www.borysenko.com

 

[Jim F.]

Like always, you shouldn't rely exclusively on a single format for
backup. If you don't already, consider adding a single, large hard
drive to your setup to serve as additional backup.

Also, burning two different copies of the same data and storing
them in different locations would be a good idea as well.

Slightly off topic, but I think these are excellent points. I'm in the process of reorganizing all my digital images I've taken over the last 5 years. My plan is to have the images on two HD's (one internal, one external) and backed up to two copies of DVD's (one stored on-site, one off-site).

Yes this is a pain right now and extremely time consuming, but I really don't want to lose 5 years of work because I was too lazy or cheap to protect it. The time and expense it took to capture the original images was far greater than what I'll invest in protecting them.

As for archiving media, both the original materials and the storage are important. None of which I'm sure about myself. I only want a DVD to last 5-10 years though, because I will absolutely transfer my images to something more current. I'm going to begin transferring my CD's to DVD's soon (Note: I'm only using single layer DVD's right now because there aren't enough dual layer devices or well-priced media out there to warrent the expense yet).

As a question to everyone, once you find the right media, how do you store it? In a sleve or binder? Is it flat (pancake) or on its side (like a book). Sounds dumb, but arguments are brewing out there over the best storage method (flat vs. on its side) for logevity.

 

[mrmagoo1962]

http://www.delkin.com/delkin_products_archival_gold_dvd.html
I use the archival CDs, but Delkin also has archival quality DVDs.

 

[Ednaz]

Mitsui (MAM-A) makes a DVD they say has been tested and proven to be 100 years if stored in the dark at room temperature. They're the same people who make the only certified archival CD-R media. Interestingly, while they have talked about the longevity of their DVD media, they have never used the word "archival" until just recently.

New product, they dare to use the word "archival."

http://www.mam-a.com/Archive_gold_image.html

They also sell two kinds of gold CD-R - one declared archival, one not.

--

'Everything I know I learned from someone else. Life doesn't get much easier than that.'

http://www.onemountainphoto.com

 

[John Beale]

I measured error rates of all the DVD-Rs on my shelf, dating back to 2001.

Taiyo Yuden is the best brand according to what I've seen. Here are my results: http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/DVD/error1.html

I'm not going to buy any more Ridata (Ritek) media, you can probably see why.

 

[eos]

John,
What do you use to measure error rates?

=-eos-=

I measured error rates of all the DVD-Rs on my shelf, dating back
to 2001.
Taiyo Yuden is the best brand according to what I've seen. Here are
my results: http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/DVD/error1.html

I'm not going to buy any more Ridata (Ritek) media, you can
probably see why.

 

[mrmagoo1962]

What convinced me to try (and continue to buy) Delkins' CDs is that they have tested theirs:
http://www.delkin.com/pdf/user_guides/archivalgold_testresults.pdf

 

[John Beale]

The Plextor drive comes with proprietary software that reports error rate. I am using:
Readback drive: Plextor PX-712A, firmware 1.07
Software: PlexTools Pro v2.25

to get the error data. If you have a Lite-On or some similar drives, you can use the cdspeed program to do the same thing (works with DVDs as well as CDs). http://www.cdspeed2000.com/

When you have errors there's always a question about who's at fault, how do you tell if it is the media, or the writing drive, or the reading drive. I plan to get a different drive, the BenQ DW1640 that can also report error rate, so it will be interesting to compare the two.

You can see a really huge article with DVD writing error testing results using the BenQ drive here:
http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/226/6

I think the cdfreaks.com website has a lot of other info about DVD media testing, etc.

 

[Miles Johnson]

Brian, I'm surprised no one's directed you to this site.

Hope this helps.

 

[brianz112832]

Thanks all for the replies, in June and this week!

Sorry, search is down... what's a good archival DVD brand? I don't
even know what "archival" means for DVDs. I've been using regular
Memorex DVDs but now I hear you need to get archival DVDs... any
help?

Thanks,

Brian
--
Wildlife galleries
http://www.pbase.com/zeiler/

--
Wildlife galleries
http://www.pbase.com/zeiler/

 

[John Beale]

Just a followup- I recently discovered the PxScan/PxView software that works with recent Plextor drives and is in many ways more convenient than Plextor's software, if you're testing a batch of DVDs. http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/Plextor/

I also have a page on DVD authoring with some info on reliability testing. The US standards lab NIST has an effort now underway to get better test methodology and data on DVD longevity, so there will be an "archival quality" label for DVDs based on some standard approved test (but this hasn't happened yet)
http://bealecorner.com/trv900/DVD/authoring.html#playback

 

[technicsplayer.]

That is the pertinent point. Results valid for the test drive could be entirely reversed with the same tests on the same media with a different drive optimised for different brand media.

When you have errors there's always a question about who's at
fault, how do you tell if it is the media, or the writing drive, or
the reading drive.

 

[canonballs]

I measured error rates of all the DVD-Rs on my shelf, dating back
to 2001.
Taiyo Yuden is the best brand according to what I've seen. Here are
my results: http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/DVD/error1.html

It is a widespread fallacy to confuse burn quality with archival properties. Error rate estimation only tells you about the current condition of your media and does not give any indication as to stability over time (I notice none of the media on your web-page is more than 3 years old). Phtalocyanine gives you lower burn quality but still is the better shot for long-term data survival. I would not trust any cyanine including Taiyo Yuden with any archive material.

--
canonballs

 

[Ednaz]

I've seen some long discussions of testing for longevity, and that doesn't much correlate with burning quality other than getting it right initially. The thing I've seen most criticized is that the plastics warp or the seal is such that the metal substrate discolors.

The US Government still hasn't authorized archiving on DVD because nothing's gotten through the NIST testing successfully. Several CD-R have, and the government is a huge buyer of the MAM-A disks.

The concept of backing up a 300gb hard drive to CD is pretty awful, though.

Because the cost for bare hard drives has fallen so much, I've started buying bare drives, putting them in an external drive case, backing up to it, and then putting it in a fire safe. I've worked with 30 year old hard drives with all the data still intact. I've had CDs that were tested just fine but are unreadable three years later even after being stored in normal indoor environementa conditions in a file cabinet.
--

'Everything I know I learned from someone else. Life doesn't get much easier than that.'

http://www.onemountainphoto.com

 

[eos]

Well I think this is because it's his personal archive and he doesn't have discs older than that. But I do think the increase in errors as they correlate to disc manufacturers is a valid result. If phtalocyanine give you a lower burn quality, I would expect to see the error rates even out with cyanine eventually.

=-eos-=

It is a widespread fallacy to confuse burn quality with archival
properties. Error rate estimation only tells you about the current
condition of your media and does not give any indication as to
stability over time (I notice none of the media on your web-page is
more than 3 years old). Phtalocyanine gives you lower burn quality
but still is the better shot for long-term data survival. I would
not trust any cyanine including Taiyo Yuden with any archive
material.