Child porn case reveals interesting side note.

[BobHaverford]

Do you know anything about mapplethorpe that your pastor didn't
shriek from the pulpit? I'd guess not given that you don't seem to
know that Mapplethorpe didn't do the cross in the urine pic. That
piece, entitled "P~ss Christ", was made by Andres Serrano. Serrano
and Mapplethorpe are the two most hated photographers in the art
hell of the right, so you probably have heard both being denounced
by your leaders but simply got them confused. Have you ever seen
any of Mapplethorpe's work? I have.

I obviously did get them confused. But I've never heard either discussed from the pulpit.

 

[BobHaverford]

However, as a non Christian, I am all to aware of the horrid
history of your people. No other human organization can claim the
same opprobrium for its acts against non-believers .... the
inquisition, the extinction of the Nazarenes, the crusades,
enslavements of California and Mexico, York, the blood crimes, the
trial of the talmud, abductions of Jewish children, cultural
holocausts in America and Africa, and the Holocaust itself.

Man, are you out of your f* ing mind? The Crusades were a battle to regain lands lost to Islamic aggression. The rest of what you've said reflects an abject ignorance of history and a contextual understanding of what transpired in the past.

These are crimes that should evoke self criticism in the true
Christian.

What the hell do you know about true Christianity. I would suggest you start becoming a TRUE Jew, but then that would require that you place someOne ahead of yourself. And you Libs are not about to accept anyone or any authority as ahead of yourself.

 

[BobHaverford]

get a copy of the Koran and immerse it in urine and then photograph your "thought provoking art." Then at the bottom of it put your name and address as well as the address of your children and wife. If your kids live at home put the address of your kids school. Then we will wait till the "religion of peace" "embraces" you and your family.

 

[mcvector]

This is guy is a super idiot.
If you want to do crime, do it properly.
Pathetic!

--
***********************************************

Those who are fools who knows they are fools are considered to be wise to an extend.
Those who are fools who think they are wise men are the real fools.

http://www.vectorlab.co.uk
http://www.myfourthirds.com/user.php?id=1076&page=user_images

 

[BobHaverford]

I really dislike porn, but as long as the acts depicted are not
abusive, why would it be illegal to make a picture?

Steve, one has to wonder if you really dislike porn. you've trivialized its definition by including things that are CLEARLY not porn. The original poster said, "A guy goes into a CSV (drugstore) to print some images of his grand child (that were actually child porn, no mistake about it) and get arrested after the images are seen by the clerk."

So, the premise is that these pictures are "actually child porn, no mistake about it." Now, why would you question the illegality of making such a picture. Perhaps in your highly sophisticated world such questions are meaningful, but not in mine.

 

[Robert Land]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2005/06/09/man_charged_with_possessing_pornographic_photos_of_toddler/

OK, great! The pervert was busted. Oh, shoot! I took naked pictures of my girl awhile back and had them developed at a one hour photo. They can obviously be reprinted since they're archived but I'll digress.

A guy goes into a CSV (drugstore) to print some images of his grand
child (that were actually child porn, no mistake about it) and get
arrested after the images are seen by the clerk.

Great, except that this story really makes me wonder about photo
processing. This store bascially says that clerks saw both sets of
prints. That must mean that clerks routinely monitor prints that
come out of printers. The only way to see images in a self serve
place is to actually take the time to look at all of the images.
Obviously, this guy had not right to do what he did, but what
privacy rights do the rest of us have? I mean are every image I
print of my son being view by someone? What if that guy is a
pervert and is making his own prints of my stuff?

I'd think that we would have some right to privacy and that clerks
and photo techs could just look though images at will.

Of course they do. I don’t know if this has been covered since I haven’t read the entire thread but every machine archives the images and connects it to you if you’re stupid enough to punch in your real name and phone number. When I need to verify a phone number I use 111-1111 or 222-2222 etc. The machines that are out now are too stupid to catch that and even if they did, I’d just say I don’t have a telephone.

My reason for doing this is simply because I don’t appreciate phone solicitations which I will inevitably get if I provide my phone number to every Tom, **** and Harry.

If you want privacy, do it on your computer. If you want real privacy, do it with a Polaroid.

Regards,
Robert


Nothing more completely baffles one who is full of trick and duplicity, than straightforward and simple integrity in another - Charles Cales Colton

 

[Robert Land]

Hey. I meant girlfriend. Things can be misinterpreted very easily so I wanted to clarify.


Nothing more completely baffles one who is full of trick and duplicity, than straightforward and simple integrity in another - Charles Cales Colton

 

[lambh]

Why don't you re-read what I wrote, but this time remove your "Liberal Spotter" glasses first.

I didn't say Serrano's photo was "thought provoking", I said "provoking", as in meant to provoke. Although my only impression of you is from this thread, I'd say that's something you also take pleasure in doing.

Are you at least clear now that it wasn't Maplethorpe's photo?

get a copy of the Koran and immerse it in urine and then photograph
your "thought provoking art." Then at the bottom of it put your
name and address as well as the address of your children and wife.
If your kids live at home put the address of your kids school.
Then we will wait till the "religion of peace" "embraces" you and
your family.

 

[Pete Stavrakoglou]

The Constitution DOES guyarnatee privacy just as it does property.

Privacy and property are abstract concespts. The Constitution
provides explicit gyrantees that effect protections of each of
these.

The question is how does the "spirit" of the consitution apply?
Justice Marshal, remember, created the court's role as a third leg
of governement. he used the "spirit" of the Constitution to decide
ythe ealry cases.

I would point out a current radical right issue ... the freedom of
religion ... is not in the Constitution either. The Constiution
explicitly bans a state church, but the devil is in the details.
--
Stephen M Schwartz

You haven't read the Constitution lately, have you. IF "the free exercise thereof" is not a guarantee of religious freedon, nothing is. The Constituion does prohibit a state church but it DOES NOT prohibit the church influencing the state. That is what the left conveniently ignores. The so-called "Separation of church and state" is not found anywhere in the Constitution just as the right to privacy is found nowhere.
--
My humble photo gallery: http://ntotrr.smugmug.com

 

[Pete Stavrakoglou]

The Ramsey girl. Not my cup of tea, and maybe a little
discomforting, but surely not in the same offensive category as
Mapplethorpe's offensive garbage (a crucifix immersed in human
urine!)

Bob,

Do you know anything about mapplethorpe that your pastor didn't
shriek from the pulpit? I'd guess not given that you don't seem to
know that Mapplethorpe didn't do the cross in the urine pic. That
piece, entitled "P~ss Christ", was made by Andres Serrano. Serrano
and Mapplethorpe are the two most hated photographers in the art
hell of the right, so you probably have heard both being denounced
by your leaders but simply got them confused. Have you ever seen
any of Mapplethorpe's work? I have.
--
Chris Crawford
http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com

There's always someone who would think a photo of a bullwhip inserted in a man's rectum is art. Mapplethorpe did, a common sense individual wouldn't.
--
My humble photo gallery: http://ntotrr.smugmug.com

 

[Pete Stavrakoglou]

To me dressing a little girl in a corset, painting her face to look
like a seductress, teaching her to flounce her skirts ... this is
porn, plain and worse it is child abuse.

As for Mapplethorpe, a non Christian, I have no feelings one way or
the other for the debate you folks have amongst yourselves anymore
then I am entitled to the debate about the satanic verses of slam.

However, as a non Christian, I am all to aware of the horrid
history of your people. No other human organization can claim the
same opprobrium for its acts against non-believers .... the
inquisition, the extinction of the Nazarenes, the crusades,
enslavements of California and Mexico, York, the blood crimes, the
trial of the talmud, abductions of Jewish children, cultural
holocausts in America and Africa, and the Holocaust itself.

It's virtually impossible to debate a person like you who makes wild claims as you do. The people who perpetrated the Holocaust were no more Christians than you are. There's quite a difference between a "cutural" Christian and a true believer who lives his or her faith. I don't expect you to recognize that because it is apparant that you have a hatred for Christianity. Just remember, no other human "organization" (BTWm Christianity is not an organization, it is a faith) can claim to be as charitable as Christians. You have no idea what you are speaking of.

--
My humble photo gallery: http://ntotrr.smugmug.com

 

[BobHaverford]

Couldn't agree more. Am reading a book that finally sets the record straight on the Leftist "talking points" concerning Christianity and the Catholic Church. It is called, "How the Catholic Church Built Wester Civilization."

There is soooo much misinformation out there propagated by the Left. The Left of course are the natural heirs of the Third Reich. Joseph Goebels had nothing on these guys.

Of course the perpetrators of the Third Reich were, as you say, cultural Christians. They did not practice their faith. To say that Christians were responsible for the holocaust is merely a demonstration of willful ignorance.

Stephen is obviously too involved with vascular research to understand what a troglodyte he is politically. If I were he I would be ashamed to have embraced an ideology which can trace its roots directly to the Holocaust.

 

[MagicAngel]

So, the premise is that these pictures are "actually child porn, no
mistake about it." Now, why would you question the illegality of
making such a picture. Perhaps in your highly sophisticated world
such questions are meaningful, but not in mine.

I specifically said they were actually porn because the article indicated that they were actually porn and the guy admited that they were porn, so in my mind there is no question if they were porn or not.

However, I have heard of many cases of moms and dads getting arrested for child porn because they took pictures of their kids playing or in the bath and the authorities later decided that they were porn. I think that is very sad, a good parent being arrested for something as bad as child porn just because they were stupid and took a picture of their child at a bad angle. The problem is that the police can't really tell a child porn lover from a normal person just by looking at the pictures. Some parents just aren't good enough photographers to realize what they are actually getting pictures of.

It is sad when that happens. The police should be smart enough to just drop it when they realize they made a mistake, but they don't seem to want to do that and it gets sent to the courts. Very sad.

 

[Stephen Schwartz115733]

The Crusades:

The crusades were launched by the European barbarian sociieties. The idea that these societies had ever controlled the middle east is bizar. BTW, the crusades also conquered and destroyed Rhoum ... the remanant of the the Roman empire that had a t one time ruled the middel east.

As for my knowledge of Christianity, I am reasonaly certain it is at least reasonable. I have read your bible and studied a series of christian philosophers.

To quote a common radical right phrase, "Do you think Jesus would approve of the Crusades?"

As for my Judaism, have you ever had the chance to learn about us? In my experience most Christians are terribly ignorant of us. Would you like to try a quick quiz:

1. Who was Hillel?

2. According to Jewish tradition, what was Moses' role in realtionship to the Deity.
3. What is the name of the Deity?
4. Was Karl Marx Jewish?
5. How do Jews believe the Deity decides on who goes to heaven?
6. According to Jewish Law, what tribe did Jesus belong to?
7. What is a mtizvah?
8. Who is holier .. an observant Muslem or an observant Jew?
9. Who were the Pharisees? What was their relationship to Rome?
10. What is the Torah and who wrote it?
--
Stephen M Schwartz

 

[MagicAngel]

Hey. I meant girlfriend. Things can be misinterpreted very easily
so I wanted to clarify.

For a second, I thought you were admitting to your own child porn processing.

 

[MagicAngel]

And yet, the grandpa
who simply didn't want attention (thus the second store), and
wanted to print out some nice pictures of his granddaughter for
himself, and didn't see anything wrong with the kind of pictures
there were (remember we are talking about completely different
attitudes towards what is going to be described as porn) is going
to be the villain, and the store clerk is going to be the hero.

Nope, grandpa admitted that he was shooting child porn. That is why he was trying to print it in secret, he knew what he was doing was wrong.

 

[Stephen Schwartz115733]

WADR ...

You must be very naive not to know that there are and have been huge Christian institutions, starting with the Roman Church that became synonymous with the Roman Empire. That specific organization officially sonsored:

the extinction of the descendents of Jesus' direct followers (the Nazarene heresy)

mass book burnings and destruction of religous symbols throughout the Roman world

the Inquistiion (recently headed by the current Pope by the way)

The mass executions and expuldions in Spain, England and Germany

the Crusades

Mass enslavement of N American natives.

Forced abductions of Jewish children

Surely the time has come for this Christain edifice to accept its guilt?

The major Chrsitian edifices in the US have been less brutal but not completely free.

Of course thew Church sponsored the mass extinctions of native americans
forced abduction of amrican children
masive missionary movements to Africa and S. America

massive campaigns to convert jews, mormans and muslims

Don't you think the time has come for the Baptist church in particulr to accept its guilt?
--
Stephen M Schwartz

 

[Stephen Schwartz115733]

Bob,

My site does not reveal it but Ihappen also to a pretty fair historian. If you want to discuss or debate anything go ahead.

FWIW. the Roman Church did do lay a role in civilizing barbaric Europe, therwe can eb no doubt about that esp. the spread of literacy by missioanries form Ireland.

OTOH, this happened well into the Golden Age of mediteranean civilization under the Abassif caliphate.

I would give Chirstianity huge credit, however, for the event leading to the Reanaissance and the Enlightnement and would never forget that my personal hero, Jefferson, was Christian.

If you want to read some real balanced history, try readind some Paul Johnson.
--
Stephen M Schwartz

 

[Stephen Schwartz115733]

I guess I have less trust than you do in the legal judgemebt of a clerk.
--
Stephen M Schwartz

 

[Stephen Schwartz115733]

Graet Post!
--
Stephen M Schwartz