Why Not a lower ISO than ISO 200?

Chris220952

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Why does the Nikon dSLR cameras "only" go down to 200?

Back in high school when I was taking photo workshops, my instructor loved for me to use Kodachrome ISO 64 slide film. He said that ISO 64 was even richer than ISO 100.

Many of the "point and shoot" cams even go down to ISO 50, but the Nikon dSLR cams only go down to 200.

Should this be an issue with me when looking at cameras? I will be taking general everyday photos of kids, etc., but I do really want the flexibility of a dSLR.

Chris (newbie)
 
Not if you want a Nikon

Some say Nikons 200 is as good as anyone elses 100.

Or that 200 is already too fine and that they wish it was
grainier and more film-like!
 
Back in high school when I was taking photo workshops, my
instructor loved for me to use Kodachrome ISO 64 slide film. He
said that ISO 64 was even richer than ISO 100.
There is no a real equivalncy between film ISO and DSLR ISO. Film ISO is standarizaed, in DSLR it can be different depending on the brand or even the model. We have to change tha way we think of ISO when shooting digital.

--
Antonio Rojilla
 
Back in high school when I was taking photo workshops, my
instructor loved for me to use Kodachrome ISO 64 slide film. He
said that ISO 64 was even richer than ISO 100.
There is no a real equivalncy between film ISO and DSLR ISO. Film
ISO is standarizaed, in DSLR it can be different depending on the
brand or even the model. We have to change tha way we think of ISO
when shooting digital.
NOT TRUE !!!

There may indeed be manufacturing tolarences; (as there also was with film); but the INTENTION is indeed for ISO to equal film equivalents; so a handheld meter can be used if desired.

--
Thanks for reading .... JoePhoto

( Do You Ever STOP to THINK --- and FORGET to START Again ??? )
 
hardsuit wrote:
more of the same S#!$
the d70 , D70s, use the same OLD sony sensor in the D100.
nikon has not solved their hot color balance problem.
nikon has not resolved their lens back focus problem.
nikon still has not fixed their software problem , where
you set color space for adobe RGB then when it opens RAW,
the software thinks its super RGB. compressed colors. yuk.

I had high hopes for the D2H's lbcast sensor but it too is controlled.....
oops I ment made by sony.......

--
' lets see what's out there.....engage'
 
Disclaimer! This is based on a recollection of something I read a while back on the D70 forum. I'm not claiming to be any kind of expert on the matter.

My understanding is that the D70 CCD has a native sensitivity to light which is the equivalent of ISO200. Increasing ISO setting is increasing amplification of the signal from the CCD. ISO200 is the equivalent of no amplification.

As such, if you reduce sensitivity from this sensor to the equivalent of 100, you aren't actually decreasing noise and hence there is no benefit (or point).

To put is another way, I think adding ISO100 to the D70 would be like sticking on a 1 stop ND filter. Great if you need to reduce shutter speed, but it doesn't help with noise or anything else.

I know P&S cameras have lower ISO's and are CCDs, so I don't know how my understanding fits in with this. You need to ask someone with a bit more expertise like Thom Hogan or similar. Like I said, this is just my understanding and I don't claim to be an expert!

As for whether or not lack of ISO100 is an issue, have a look at the comparative noise graphs in Phil's reviews. Have a look at the samples. Relate that to the type of photos you like to take. Different manufacturers and cameras will suit different needs and tastes.

Regards,
Damien
Why does the Nikon dSLR cameras "only" go down to 200?

Back in high school when I was taking photo workshops, my
instructor loved for me to use Kodachrome ISO 64 slide film. He
said that ISO 64 was even richer than ISO 100.

Many of the "point and shoot" cams even go down to ISO 50, but the
Nikon dSLR cams only go down to 200.

Should this be an issue with me when looking at cameras? I will be
taking general everyday photos of kids, etc., but I do really want
the flexibility of a dSLR.

Chris (newbie)
 
i spy troll, RE: colour space tag bug.... was fixed in the last firmware update... thankyou for your time read up before you start slagging randomly...
--
Aviation Photographer, Fighter Control poster, D70/S5000z user.
 
True. I don't have that background so it's not a benefit that I had considered.

Couldn't you remember your ISO50 settings and adjust by 2 stops?

;-)

Damien
 
I think it works something like this (very simplified) :

Each photosite on the sensor is a little bucket that collects photons. The photons interact with the photosite and generate electrons in proportion to the number of photons. These are shipped off to a ADC converter chip and 'counted'. The result is a numerical value representing the brightness of that photosite recorded in the raw file.

Each photosite has a maximum capacity - if they collect more photons than this capacity, they overflow - this causes clipping or blowout of the highlights. The photosite well capacity puts a limit on how bright a signal can be recorded for any given exposure setting.

The photosites also produce a low level of random signals (noise) even in the complete absence of incoming photons and this can cause the ADC converter to record spurious output.

Fortunately, the noise level is at a reasonably constant level irrespective of the number of photons in the photosite well, so, as long as the photosite captures a large enough number of photons to to drown out the errors, the false signals don't matter too much.

This requirement to capture enough photons in each photosite to overwhelm the random errors means there is however a limit on the sensitivity of the sensor - if too few photons are captured the signal can be overwhelmed by spurious noise.

If we put these two limits together we have:

1. A need to record enough photons to get an acceptable noise level

2. The need to avoid collecting too many thus causing blowout of highlights

To handle both these means defining the base ISO sensitivity of the sensor such that a correct exposure for 'average' scenes records sufficient photons from the shadow areas to overcome noise and (simultaneously) the photons collected from the scene highlights don't exceed the well capacity of the photosites.

A designer could rate the sensor at a lower ISO - this would mean longer exposures which would reduce shadow noise but it would also mean a higher chance of filling the wells and blowing the highlights.

The designer could rate the sensor at a higher ISO and reduce exposure accordingly - this would protect the highlights but mean increased shadow noise as too few photons are collected from these areas.

Corrections to the above welcome!
Why does the Nikon dSLR cameras "only" go down to 200?

Back in high school when I was taking photo workshops, my
instructor loved for me to use Kodachrome ISO 64 slide film. He
said that ISO 64 was even richer than ISO 100.

Many of the "point and shoot" cams even go down to ISO 50, but the
Nikon dSLR cams only go down to 200.

Should this be an issue with me when looking at cameras? I will be
taking general everyday photos of kids, etc., but I do really want
the flexibility of a dSLR.

Chris (newbie)
 
There is no a real equivalncy between film ISO and DSLR ISO. Film
ISO is standarizaed, in DSLR it can be different depending on the
brand or even the model. We have to change tha way we think of ISO
when shooting digital.
Digital ISO is standardized through the ISO 12232:1998 specification.

As with the film ISO standard, there may be nuances and marketing influences in the interpretation of the standard.

--
Ron Parr
FAQ: http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/parr/
 
Why does the Nikon dSLR cameras "only" go down to 200?
ISO 200 may not be as sensitive as you're expecting due to different interpretations of the ISO 12232:1998 standard.

Of course, that doesn't really answer the underlying question of why a sensor would have minimum ISO.

One reason is that there are a finite number of electrons that any pixel can hold. If the sensor can count photons (accumulate electrons) at a given rate, then these two factors combine to set a lower bound on the ISO. If you try to go below this lower bound, things will start blowing out to white because the pixels will max out on the number of electrons they can hold and everything will appear to be a maximum brightness.

--
Ron Parr
FAQ: http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/parr/
 
A solid state sensor collects photons. For every photon collected it stores an electron. The silicon substrate can only hold a certain electron density before it overflows. Therefore - it is hard to make sensors with a lows ISO number. You can of course add a neutral density filter or somehow decrease the quantum efficiency. But neither will lead to better images, only lower ISO.

Now - there is a solution - but it might be hard to implement. You could make a sensor where the quantumm efficiency decreases with the number of electrons stores. Then you would get a non linear response with a much higher dynamic range and also potentially a much lower ISO.

Roland
 
It's a limitation of the sensors that Nikon uses. Their native sensitivity is ISO 200, so that's why they start at ISO 200. Canon's sensors have a native sensitivity of ISO 100, so that's why they start at ISO 100. Obviously, there are useful photographic and practical reasons for having and using ISO 100. If you want a camera capable of ISO 100, get a Canon.
Why does the Nikon dSLR cameras "only" go down to 200?

Back in high school when I was taking photo workshops, my
instructor loved for me to use Kodachrome ISO 64 slide film. He
said that ISO 64 was even richer than ISO 100.

Many of the "point and shoot" cams even go down to ISO 50, but the
Nikon dSLR cams only go down to 200.

Should this be an issue with me when looking at cameras? I will be
taking general everyday photos of kids, etc., but I do really want
the flexibility of a dSLR.

Chris (newbie)
 
It's a limitation of the sensors that Nikon uses. Their native
sensitivity is ISO 200, so that's why they start at ISO 200.
Canon's sensors have a native sensitivity of ISO 100, so that's why
they start at ISO 100. Obviously, there are useful photographic
and practical reasons for having and using ISO 100. If you want a
camera capable of ISO 100, get a Canon.
Strangely enough, the difference may not be as much as it seems.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=12440556

--
Ron Parr
FAQ: http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/parr/
 

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