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x530 retrospectives

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Roland Karlsson

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OK,

So there was this x530 thingie.

It was anticipated by Foveon fans. Some were more realistic and said that it would not really work out all that well to make such a small Foveon sensor - and that the mysterious company that calls themselves Polaroid was not really a good choice for making high quality cameras.

Then it arrived.

The pictures looked totally catastrophic. It was a step 10 years back in digital camera history. Cheaper P&S cameras with 10 times as good picture qualty does exit today.

Many here saw it - both Foveon fans and others.

But - there was those that said that the pictures had special properties that made them superior. And if you just used RAW - then they really shined. Download the tools and see for yourself!

I did not download the tools, but I looked at pictures made with those that did. Oh - yes - much better. But - still several levels below the quality of current P&S cameras.

The camera was (if using RAW) not totally useless. But - (1) why bother with a worse camera than the competition and (2) why bother with RAW for a P&S camera in the first place.

And lastly - why did those Foveon fans don't see that the camera was in practice useless? And why did not those that calls themselves Polariod see it before shipping?

And now the camera has been discontinued. Not only that - it is being recalled and those that own one are asked to send it back.

End of the x530 story.

Roland

PS. Might be fun to own one - it wll absolutely become a collectors item.
 
Good morning, forum readers, does any point-and-shoot camera you know of, previously that you've used personally, handle both in-camera RAW as well as JPEG? Not DSLRs, but point-and-shoot models. Serious question, I'm really curious --
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
 
I agree, the pictures are horid and the colors are awful and you can start gloating now and I like to congratulate you to be the first to stand up and be counted for the first of jeering crowd...it does takes courage to stand up and be counted...it is much easier to be jeering and tearing down than trying to build something because any small minded person can do that...have a good and happy life!



http://www.pbase.com/polaroid_digital/image/42174513
 
SandyF said:
Good morning, forum readers, does any point-and-shoot camera you
know of, previously that you've used personally, handle both
in-camera RAW as well as JPEG? Not DSLRs, but point-and-shoot
models. Serious question, I'm really curious --
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you mean by point and shoot here, but many cameras with small sensors offer RAW as well as jpeg.

The Canon S70 and predecessors are one family of cameras that is really compact and offers both RAW and jpeg.

--
Ron Parr
FAQ: http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/parr/
 
I think if you look you will see most advanced digital cameras have a setting
to shoot either a lossless TIFF or some type of RAW file be it a proprietary
like Nikon NEF or other.

And my C750 cost me $400 at the time and blows the socks off this
contraption that WWL put to market. It's a shame that Foveon choose to
sell sensors to such a low bid company, all they did was make Foveon look
BAD and anyone who doesn't see this needs to remove the blinders from
thier eyes. As much as I love my SD10 I am not a zealot and can see a duck
when it's a duck...

Shame, really.

--



I am not a Professional but I did stay at Holiday Inn!
Please take a look at my gallery! :)
http://www.westol.com/~brettd/sd10/gallery/
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/brett_dimichele
 
Hi Ron, Thanks very much, I looked up that camera's specs, 7.1MP, CCD, ~$488, any others, any CMOS-imagers? Essentially by point-and-shoot, I'm thinking of non-DSLR -- any others, especially CMOS?
Thanks in advance, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
 
SandyF said:
Hi Ron, Thanks very much, I looked up that camera's specs, 7.1MP,
CCD, ~$488, any others, any CMOS-imagers? Essentially by
point-and-shoot, I'm thinking of non-DSLR -- any others, especially
CMOS?
Click to expand...
The S70 is going for just over $400 these days.

You can find many other models in a range of prices from Canon, Nikon, Olympus and Sony (at least) that offer RAW, but you can look these up yourself.

On the CMOS question: Nobody has made a decent small CMOS sensor that can compete with like-sized CCDs. There's too much noise is current CMOS technology. This is why it was unrealistic to expect the X530 to be competitive. The problem with small CMOS sensors that prevent them from finding homes in decent P&S cameras is noise, not the presence of a color filter array. Addressing the color filter array issue with X3 was not addressing the main problem with small CMOS sensors, so it was unrealistic to think that end result would be competitive.

--
Ron Parr
FAQ: http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/parr/
 
My SD9 had a firmware update or two since it was new. So now the x530 was pushed out the door before it was quite ready. Call me an eternal optimist, but I'll take the 'wait and see' approach to see what becomes of the x530. Worst case scenario, I get the 10-20mm instead 8-)

--> LSN
http://www.pbase.com/lsn/
 
...I really don't care that much one way or the other. You certainly called it right.

The bottom line is that Polaroid really blew it. So what's new? They haven't set the camera world on fire since...gee, I don't remember when~ That could be why they are in such deep sh_ _ :-)

CJ

--
http://www.pbase.com/cjmax/galleries

'May the best you've ever seen
Be the worst you'll ever see...'
from A Scots Toast by Robert Burns

 
1) I would not send x530 back (for money) if I had it. No way. It would be too rare camera. It there are any improvements, they can be done via firmware upgrades. I don't think WWL will replace Foveon sensors or other hardware in recalled cameras.

2) x530 is not several levels worse than current P&S competitors, except the megapixel count. But, just like with Sigma, where we have 3.5 mp vs. 8 mp, the pixel quality is what matters over the quantity. While showing some noise at ISO100 (which every P&S does even at ISO50!) it has special Foveon quality and this is what I like. Coupled with SPP, its RAW can be processed in a number of different ways and I expect great results from it.
 
Greetings to all

Sandy to answer your question, yes. The Minolta A1,A2,(4 Levels of JPEG,Tiff and Raw) Sony 828, and Olympus E10, E20 and there are more. They all record in different JPEG levels, Tiff and Raw.

Still no match for my SD10's thru, at least not yet. As for your question about the CMOS sensor, I do not know.
Have fun
Roger J.
 
Roland,

I cannot understand what the point is of your thread starter. Are you frustrated? Did you lose some money in this deal? Were you looking for a Great White Hope?

First of all, the x530 is far better than the press it is getting. By that, I am not in any way saying it is the best pray-and-shoot in the world; I am saying that it can produce very good to excellent images.

Also, I am pretty sure we will go through another "SD9 experience" here, because reviewers will blast it with their idiotic comparative testing procedures and by calling it only 1.5 MP; non-users will fall into two camps: real deal-killers and FUD sprayers. Users will find out how to take some great images with it. In doing so, almost everyone will miss the point.

From the numbers produced, the x530 was never supposed to be anything other than a "foot-in-the-door" product to prove a concept. On this, WWL can build a range of products. Such products have teething problems - in this case, the x530 has had more than its share admittedly.

But the fact remains, it can take very good pictures and prints up to A3 are entirely possible from this sensor and are very good. All of this has been done and seen.

I am not sure whether someone has linked this gallery before, but here is an initial sampling that will grow in the days to come:

http://www.pbase.com/polaroid_digital/first_images

Pixel pickers of course have a lot to tear apart there. But big picture lookers also can see that there is some potential.

--
Laurence

There is a tide in the affairs of men,
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.

http://www.pbase.com/lmatson/root
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/root
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd10
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd9
http://www.beachbriss.com (eternal test site)
 
Steve,

Does repeating this give you original FUD added strength? If so, you are returning to a tactic practiced by my favorite pet troll, Karl Guttag, who had a way of citing himself that was intended to make his latest statement sound founded.

Nonsense does not get better through repetition. It gets staler faster.

--
Laurence

There is a tide in the affairs of men,
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.

http://www.pbase.com/lmatson/root
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/root
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd10
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd9
http://www.beachbriss.com (eternal test site)
 
veroman said:
Here's what I had to say about it a while back....

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=13030998
Click to expand...
One of the unique things about Foveon sensors is that their actual resolution capability is equal to their megapixel count. In other words, a line of pixels can actually resolve a line of image information. Mosaiced sensor can't do that. If we go by actual resolving ability, we'd have to call 6Mp DSLRs 3.8 megapixel cameras - or less if we consider color resolution instead of only luminance resolution.

The x530 did about what one would expect. Its luminance resolution was similar to 3-4Mp color mosaic cameras. The biggest surprise and disappointmen, however,was how noisy the images could be.

--
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
 
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