What happened to Michael Soo?

Gizmoboy:

Lee is, like me, defending himself as an advocate of ExpoDiscs. DocTonic, remembering that a couple of people pushed them hard in the past, made the assertion that these people must have worked for ExpoDisc. "They" were Lee and me. Both of us contribute on a large variety of topics and often push particular products (hardware and software). Neither of us gains a commercial nickel from the sale of any of these things we talk about.
I don't think Lee was talking about Michael's particular scenario.
Leebase,

I think the majority of people would agree with your statement. In
the case of Michael Woo, is was indeed the product (his own) and
the means of promotion.

Gizmo
--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------

Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004 All rights reserved.
 
Great response. I too responded to the remark because I too, obviously, had written many a post on the topic of ExpoDisc. I too have absolutely no financial connection with the company other than having purchased one disc -- at full price.

Now -- why so many posts then? Simple -- controversy. I've posted about many other tools I use, but none of them have spawned any controversy.

When folks start to say things like "it doesn't work" or "coffee filters are just as good" -- then those are testable assertions, and so I went about examinng the assertions and then shared my results -- and then debated the interpretations of the results -- which led to more questions and more tests.

I rather enjoyed it myself. Learned a lot about testing and color in general, as well as the ins and outs of the expodisc.

But after all that died down, and my learning has taken me to other areas of photography -- there have been no more threads on the subject.

And when "color balance" comes up anymore, I assuredly mention the expodisc AND the alternatives which cost much less.

Lee
But this post needs a response.

I am one of the two people who have strongly advocated the ExpoDisc
here (the other is LeeBase, and sometimes Wild-Mike after much
convincing!). Through my exploration of the ExpoDisc, I
corresponded on two occasions with Diane Wallace, the owner who I
had never previously met or talked with. I haven't spoken with her
since. I wrote of the device because I truly believe in it, as did
Lee. Though I have never met Lee or Mike, I feel darn comfortable
that none of us, nor anybody else represents the company in any
way or receives any benefit from our recommendations. I paid for
my ONE ExpoDisc just like anybody did.

ExpoDisc appears to be an old time, honorable company. When they
want to speak in this forum, which is rarely, they do it by signing
their name. They don't deserve to have their company smeared on
the forum no matter how expensive people think their product is.

Furthermore, many people on this forum recommend, sometimes
passionately, equipment/software that they like with absolutely no
commercial benefit to themselves.

I have been a contributing member of the forum since almost the
beginning of the 300D board, and before that the Olympus SLR board.
In this time I have never seen a more bizarre or commercial episode
than what happened with Michael Soo. His commercial behavior really
annoyed some members of the forum (see Gizmoboy's posts of late).

I, like others, have always learned a lot from Michael. He has a
very nice style in his photographs and was a longstanding
contributer. However, something very odd happened recently that I
just can't figure out.

in June he produced and began to push heavily his sharpening
actions. After a month or so he started charging for it and several
other actions in a rather awkward way (a fact that he himself later
referred to) and continued to mention/refer to them in many/most of
his posts.

Most recently several people started marvelling over them. It
quickly became apparent that these were, in fact, the same person
with alternate identities/pseudonyms (perhaps, some speculate,
Michael himself) who was holding discussions in threads with
himself/herself, praising the actions. Michael claimed, in a now
removed thread, that this was the work of a friend who was a
marketeer and bet him that he couldn't make $1,000 off his actions.
Whether it was Michael himself, or his friend, the shill, there
were a bunch of threads containing this promotional stuff on
multiple forums.

Finally, he posted the "contest" in which people were suppposed to
use up to three of his actions (at $10 each, $25 for the set) to
edit a photo. Any other editing wasn't allowed - just his actions.
After the blatant advertising aspects of his contest were pointed
out to him, he asked Phil to pull the thread. However, Michael
continued to explain the rules of the contest on the Nikon forum in
several more posts.

The commercial nature of these threads was repeatedly pointed out
to him, but afterwards he just created new approaches.

In the middle of all this he stopped posting, as did his shills.
Some of these threads vanished. It appears he (and they) were
banned by Phil. As for his motivation for this - not "financial
straits."

Iin his words, with the subject "Money Talks":
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess I'm selling my Photoshop actions to make some money to pay
for a 1D Mark II.
  • MS
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Lee:

Uh oh. I think we may be the same person. I love my Sigma 70-200, my Tamron 28-75, my ExpoDisc, C1. And my 300D.

Phew. I don't do PSP or FocalBlade. I don't think you have a Sigma 12-24 (though you SHOULD!).

LOL.

Paul
Or no, mabye I'm the creator of jpegcrops as I frequently reccomend
it -- or C1 -- or PaintShop Pro, or FocalBlade -- or ExpoDisc.

How in the world can you have a forum dedicated to users of a
camera and not have folks talking about their favorite lenses,
software, flashes, actions etc?

Lee
Mike hasn't been around for several days, and I noticed some
strange threads about him being posted. I do NOT want to start any
bickering about this, I just wondered if anybody knows what
happened. Mike has been here a long time, and is a wonderful
photographer and contributor. It would be a shame to lose him.

--
Once in a while, please check back several pages in the forum, for
posts that may have been overlooked. Thanks!
--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------

Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004 All rights reserved.
 
I think the majority of people would agree with your statement. In
the case of Michael Woo, is was indeed the product (his own) and
the means of promotion.
I'm just responding to the insult to -- who else could it be -- Paul and I regarding the ExpoDisc.

Lee
 
Pbleic,

Hi - I was under the impression that he was referring to (and suggesting) this behaviour is okay (as we all do it - as he says, discussing lenses etc.). I have no qualms with him, just wanted to make the point about Michael. I don't even know of the product you are referring to.

Again, I have NO probelms with leebase (just wanted to argue my point with him).

Gizmo
 
We could be -- except you are far more talented than I....oh wait...maybe I'm the "retarded alter ego" you created so it wouldn't be obvious that I am you :)

No I don't have the Sigma 12-24, I'm not much of a wide shooter at this point, and the kit lens is pretty good. I've looked at the wides, like thd 17-40L, but I try to buy lenses that are 2.8 or faster. If I have to use flash, I might as well use the kit lens which is fairly decent stopped down.

Lee
Uh oh. I think we may be the same person. I love my Sigma
70-200, my Tamron 28-75, my ExpoDisc, C1. And my 300D.

Phew. I don't do PSP or FocalBlade. I don't think you have a Sigma
12-24 (though you SHOULD!).

LOL.

Paul
Or no, mabye I'm the creator of jpegcrops as I frequently reccomend
it -- or C1 -- or PaintShop Pro, or FocalBlade -- or ExpoDisc.

How in the world can you have a forum dedicated to users of a
camera and not have folks talking about their favorite lenses,
software, flashes, actions etc?

Lee
Mike hasn't been around for several days, and I noticed some
strange threads about him being posted. I do NOT want to start any
bickering about this, I just wondered if anybody knows what
happened. Mike has been here a long time, and is a wonderful
photographer and contributor. It would be a shame to lose him.

--
Once in a while, please check back several pages in the forum, for
posts that may have been overlooked. Thanks!
--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------
Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004
All rights reserved.
 
Lee,

The 'respond to' option does not always bring the thread in order. I must have read this post out of order - I don't have any problem with your posts, comments, or products you might be discussing.

:)

Gizmo
 
Like most everyone else, I greatly admire Michael's work and appreciated his contribution.

However, like most everyone else, I too think his method of promoting his product is incompatible with this forum -- or any other. Hopefully he will have learned a lesson and after a time can come back.

Lee
Pbleic,

Hi - I was under the impression that he was referring to (and
suggesting) this behaviour is okay (as we all do it - as he says,
discussing lenses etc.). I have no qualms with him, just wanted to
make the point about Michael. I don't even know of the product you
are referring to.

Again, I have NO probelms with leebase (just wanted to argue my
point with him).

Gizmo
 
I was there in the free session. A bunch of D70 users got together and we formed the Bay Area users group. We requested Michael to help us with PS and he did the photoshop class for us - FREE.

I did see Sam2 buy the actions as well.

fwiw.

anand

--
http://www.anands.net/photos
 
But this post needs a response.

I am one of the two people who have strongly advocated the ExpoDisc
here (the other is LeeBase, and sometimes Wild-Mike after much
convincing!). Through my exploration of the ExpoDisc, I
corresponded on two occasions with Diane Wallace, the owner who I
had never previously met or talked with. I haven't spoken with her
since. I wrote of the device because I truly believe in it, as did
Lee. Though I have never met Lee or Mike, I feel darn comfortable
that none of us, nor anybody else represents the company in any
way or receives any benefit from our recommendations. I paid for
my ONE ExpoDisc just like anybody did.

ExpoDisc appears to be an old time, honorable company. When they
want to speak in this forum, which is rarely, they do it by signing
their name. They don't deserve to have their company smeared on
the forum no matter how expensive people think their product is.
snip

Your post among others has convinced me to order an expdisk for my own use. I hope I don't get run off Dpreview if I tell anyone how much I like it. ;)
--



Trust that little voice in your head that says, 'Wouldn't it be interesting if....' And then do it. -Duane Michals
 
and after we defeat the might Fava beans we will come for you and your kind. I will speak more later.

Listen to your toothbrush, less youl be led down the snowless path.

billtoo
Shizophrenia is characterized as someone who suffers with
Halucinations, paranoia, delusional thought, social withdrawl.
You may think that you are clever by not mentioning me by name but
the lima beans on my supper plate told me all about your cute
little masked communiques. And I most certainly do not have a
social withdrawl, in fact I've never even visited the south.

I'd have even more to say to you but I have to call the CIA and
report you before the battery in my knee loses its charge.

You have been warned

gods emulsified selfsame equinamessake
-
billtoo
http://www.pbase.com/billtoo
--

--
billtoo
http://www.pbase.com/billtoo
 
Seems like a good place to ask. Anyone know where I can get the free (version 1.1) triple sharpening action he developed?
--



Trust that little voice in your head that says, 'Wouldn't it be interesting if....' And then do it. -Duane Michals
 
This latest episode of Soo just confirms to me what kind of a person he is. He is self-serving and used Phil and everyone else on these forums to his advantage. Don't think for one minute he didn't know what he was doing, he only apologized after he was caught. He may be a good photographer but don't judge a book by it cover.

This will be the last I have to say about Soo, I do not want to start another thread like the last one about Soo and take advantage of Phil's generosity.
Now let me go check to see if the UPS man delivered my 20D. ;o)
Mike hasn't been around for several days, and I noticed some
strange threads about him being posted. I do NOT want to start any
bickering about this, I just wondered if anybody knows what
happened. Mike has been here a long time, and is a wonderful
photographer and contributor. It would be a shame to lose him.

--
Once in a while, please check back several pages in the forum, for
posts that may have been overlooked. Thanks!
--
Tom
 
I also learned a lot from his post and enjoyed his pictures but he
was extremely dishonest. None of us are perfect, especially me but
when someone is this blatently maligned I can't respect them. I'm
all for forgiveness but not forgetting..... I'm reminded of these
stories during the Olympics of athletes being stripped of their
medals because of banned substances. Many of them have been
suspended from competition in the past but yet they allow them to
come back and compete.
After his appalling words in a post about the United States showing his disdain for my country, he went on to inform us that he was attempting to become a citizen. For those living in the US we surely don't need people like these becoming citizens. It's one thing to hate a country, but to attempt to become a citizen of a country you hate is pretty sad. And now his true colors come out again.

I surely won't miss him.

Regards,
Mike

--
Gallery:
http://tkis.com/mike/

Joy in looking and comprehending is nature's most beautiful gift. -- Albert Einstein
 
From a recent post in this thread:

"Just some funny thoughts about this Michael Soo situation... and how sad is to loose a great photographer with not so good business sense."

Michael is a good photographer but his problem on this forum and in life is NOT that he has bad business sense -- it is that he has no integrity.

When we stand in front of the pearly gates I don't think St Peter is going to ask how good a photographer we were. He is more likely to ask -- Did you tell the truth; did you take responsibility for yourself; did you leave your friends behind?

On each of these three measures of character Michael fails, and there is no amount of photographic skill that can ever redeem for these failings.

Borderrose
... with absentee, random, and arbitrary forum moderation. I don't
know why anyone is surprised anymore.

--
Pat
http://www.patcroteau.com
 
Sorry to offend.

My reference to redemption is in the moral not the religious sense. The pearly gates was meant as a metaphor for being called to account as a human being for our behaviour. There was no religious connotation to any part of this message, it was a comment on life values.

Michael is the person responsible for the fact that he is not here to participate in this thread.
"Just some funny thoughts about this Michael Soo situation... and
how sad is to loose a great photographer with not so good business
sense."

Michael is a good photographer but his problem on this forum and in
life is NOT that he has bad business sense -- it is that he has no
integrity.

When we stand in front of the pearly gates I don't think St Peter
is going to ask how good a photographer we were. He is more likely
to ask -- Did you tell the truth; did you take responsibility for
yourself; did you leave your friends behind?

On each of these three measures of character Michael fails, and
there is no amount of photographic skill that can ever redeem for
these failings.

Borderrose
... with absentee, random, and arbitrary forum moderation. I don't
know why anyone is surprised anymore.

--
Pat
http://www.patcroteau.com
 
That is EXACTLY my point. Everyone here talks about products and MSoo was doing nothing that different from anyone else, so I'm not too sure why everyone got all upset...except for the notion that people thought he was using different user names. Again, not a big deal.
Or no, mabye I'm the creator of jpegcrops as I frequently reccomend
it -- or C1 -- or PaintShop Pro, or FocalBlade -- or ExpoDisc.

How in the world can you have a forum dedicated to users of a
camera and not have folks talking about their favorite lenses,
software, flashes, actions etc?

Lee
Mike hasn't been around for several days, and I noticed some
strange threads about him being posted. I do NOT want to start any
bickering about this, I just wondered if anybody knows what
happened. Mike has been here a long time, and is a wonderful
photographer and contributor. It would be a shame to lose him.

--
Once in a while, please check back several pages in the forum, for
posts that may have been overlooked. Thanks!
 

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