New G6 -- sweeter!

Petteri Sulonen · Aug 19, 2004

It's gonna be a fun Photokina. I wonder what they'll leave up their sleeves.

I liked the Pentax, but I like the G6 even more.

Here was my wishlist for a compact camera:

+ Responsive. (Promising -- supposedly "55% faster" than the G5.)
+ Bright. (Great -- f/2.0 is about as bright as it gets.)
+ Handles well. (Good -- the G5 wasn't bad, and this can only be better.)
+ RAW. (YEAH!)

Another very significant bonus (for me) would be that it takes the same batts and memory as my main camera (10D). Saves a lot of hassle when traveling! I've also always liked Canon's approach to image quality, and by Phil's samples, the G6 certainly appears to deliver; it's not perfect, but it looks pretty durn good to me.

On the down side, it's somewhat bigger than I'd hope for (the G5 felt too bulky for the mission I had in mind), but what with the trimmed right side, it looks like it could just fit the bill. And, of course, a wider lens would've been nice.

This is definitely one I'm going to keep an eye on. If the responsiveness is as good as claimed and if it doesn't feel too bulky, this might be my next camera purchase.

Petteri
--
[ http://www.prime-junta.tk ]

wolfie · Aug 19, 2004

Petteri Sulonen said:
I liked the Pentax, but I like the G6 even more.

What G6? There have been no details been announced by Canon yet, so how can you like it more than the Penatx?
There are plenty of fake press/product release going around...

Petteri Sulonen · Aug 19, 2004

wolfie said:
Petteri Sulonen said:

I liked the Pentax, but I like the G6 even more.

Click to expand...

What G6? There have been no details been announced by Canon yet,
so how can you like it more than the Penatx?
There are plenty of fake press/product release going around...

Uh... like this one, you mean?

[ http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canong6/ ]

Petteri
--
[ http://www.prime-junta.tk ]

Peter G · Aug 19, 2004

Petteri Sulonen said:
It's gonna be a fun Photokina. I wonder what they'll leave up their
sleeves.

I liked the Pentax, but I like the G6 even more.

Frankly the samples look pretty good. I wasn't that impressed with the 8MP 2/3" cameras, so I expected 7MP 1/1.8" ones to be really bad.

Where will it end?

Juri D · Aug 19, 2004

Peter G said:
Where will it end?

The current crop of cameras with 5MP 1/2.5" (Pana Z20, Fuji F450, Kodak 7590 and multiple others) have a bit of noise, but not an unreasonable amount. Those pixel densities translate into 14MP for 1/1.5" size. Next year, Pana 6MP 1/2.5" sensor is coming out (equivalent to 17MP for 1/1.5" sensor). So when are we going to see 14-17MP compacts?

It's all down to economics. To produce a 1/1.5" sensor with the same density as a 1/2.5" one is gonna cost much more than 2.56 times (area differential). Plus, to process those images you need much more powerfull CPUs, and at the current technological level those CPUs would simply eat too much power. Then the optics... The current optics in compacts simply cannot handle 14-17MPs. Needs to be updated. So if one has to produce a 14MP 1/1.5" compact now, it would cost $3,000, run too hot, weigh too much and it would be let down by its optics. My guess is we will have to wait two more years before we see a 14MP compact.

Philly · Aug 19, 2004

Just try to wear the G6 on your belt!

The G6 is getting up into the 8MP cameras' form factor, for me. I think it's a shame that Canon is not offering ETTL II with the G6. I supposed it would have created a product positioning issue, since their Pro 1 8MP camera doesn't have ETTL II.

I find it surprising that Canon would develop a new form factor, when they could have just easily drop a 7MP sensor into the G5. I suspect that there will be a G7 in this form factor, with a new wide angle lens. Maybe they will incorporate ETTL II at that time.

Petteri Sulonen said:
It's gonna be a fun Photokina. I wonder what they'll leave up their
sleeves.

I liked the Pentax, but I like the G6 even more.

Here was my wishlist for a compact camera:

+ Responsive. (Promising -- supposedly "55% faster" than the G5.)
+ Bright. (Great -- f/2.0 is about as bright as it gets.)
+ Handles well. (Good -- the G5 wasn't bad, and this can only be
better.)
+ RAW. (YEAH!)

Another very significant bonus (for me) would be that it takes the
same batts and memory as my main camera (10D). Saves a lot of
hassle when traveling! I've also always liked Canon's approach to
image quality, and by Phil's samples, the G6 certainly appears to
deliver; it's not perfect, but it looks pretty durn good to me.

On the down side, it's somewhat bigger than I'd hope for (the G5
felt too bulky for the mission I had in mind), but what with the
trimmed right side, it looks like it could just fit the bill. And,
of course, a wider lens would've been nice.

This is definitely one I'm going to keep an eye on. If the
responsiveness is as good as claimed and if it doesn't feel too
bulky, this might be my next camera purchase.

Petteri
--
[ http://www.prime-junta.tk ]

*isteve · Aug 19, 2004

If the samples are anything to go by I prefer the Pentax by a nose. It has more noise but the G6 seems to utilise flat area NR judging by the sky noise and the strange detail dissappearance on the brick wall (now you see it, now you dont).

Less noise, but less punch too. The detail at 100% just doesnt look as well resolved.
However I like the specs and speed.
Steve

Petteri Sulonen said:
It's gonna be a fun Photokina. I wonder what they'll leave up their
sleeves.

I liked the Pentax, but I like the G6 even more.

Here was my wishlist for a compact camera:

+ Responsive. (Promising -- supposedly "55% faster" than the G5.)
+ Bright. (Great -- f/2.0 is about as bright as it gets.)
+ Handles well. (Good -- the G5 wasn't bad, and this can only be
better.)
+ RAW. (YEAH!)

Another very significant bonus (for me) would be that it takes the
same batts and memory as my main camera (10D). Saves a lot of
hassle when traveling! I've also always liked Canon's approach to
image quality, and by Phil's samples, the G6 certainly appears to
deliver; it's not perfect, but it looks pretty durn good to me.

On the down side, it's somewhat bigger than I'd hope for (the G5
felt too bulky for the mission I had in mind), but what with the
trimmed right side, it looks like it could just fit the bill. And,
of course, a wider lens would've been nice.

This is definitely one I'm going to keep an eye on. If the
responsiveness is as good as claimed and if it doesn't feel too
bulky, this might be my next camera purchase.

Petteri
--
[ http://www.prime-junta.tk ]

Glen Barrington · Aug 19, 2004

Was it just me? or was the CA much less than the G3/G5? That purple fringe really sets my teeth on edge!

Peter G said:
Petteri Sulonen said:

It's gonna be a fun Photokina. I wonder what they'll leave up their
sleeves.

I liked the Pentax, but I like the G6 even more.

Click to expand...

Frankly the samples look pretty good. I wasn't that impressed with
the 8MP 2/3" cameras, so I expected 7MP 1/1.8" ones to be really
bad.

Where will it end?

--
SOMEBODY SSSSTTOPPP ME!

Petteri Sulonen · Aug 19, 2004

Glen Barrington said:
Was it just me? or was the CA much less than the G3/G5? That
purple fringe really sets my teeth on edge!

Didn't look too bad to me. It's there if you look for it, but appears to be pretty well under control. That amount of PF isn't too difficult to clean up in post-processing; if it's all over the place it's another story, of course.

I re-read the Ricoh GX reviews; that's one camera that I really wanted to like. Unfortunately the image quality just doesn't hold up there -- not so much the PF, but the at the same time dull and unnatural colors and too much contrast. Unfortunately it does look like the smaller manufacturers can't quite keep up with the big ones when it comes to image processing, especially Canon and Sony.

Petteri
--
[ http://www.prime-junta.tk ]

Petteri Sulonen · Aug 19, 2004

Philly said:
Just try to wear the G6 on your belt!

The G6 is getting up into the 8MP cameras' form factor, for me. I
think it's a shame that Canon is not offering ETTL II with the G6.
I supposed it would have created a product positioning issue, since
their Pro 1 8MP camera doesn't have ETTL II.

I find it surprising that Canon would develop a new form factor,
when they could have just easily drop a 7MP sensor into the G5. I
suspect that there will be a G7 in this form factor, with a new
wide angle lens. Maybe they will incorporate ETTL II at that time.

Yeah, it is on the big side. I would prefer something smaller; the S70 looks nice, except it's likely to be no faster than the S60, which wasn't quite there yet when it comes to responsiveness.

Well, my jacket has big pockets... But I'll def. take a close look at this one.

Petteri
--
[ http://www.prime-junta.tk ]

iamphil · Aug 19, 2004

Philly said:
I suspect that there will be a G7 in this form factor, with a new
wide angle lens.

I suspect you are right but the G7 won't have the wide lens. It will be exactly the same as the G6, only black.

Philly · Aug 20, 2004

Phil's G6 samples don't have much shadow areas. Take a look at Jeff's G6 samples:

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/powershot_g6-review/gallery.shtml

Check out the ones at the church and his "purple torture test", and see what you think of the G6 noise and its noise reduction handling. One thing, purple fringing has been significantly reduced on the G6, compared to the G5.

*isteve said:
Petteri Sulonen said:

It's gonna be a fun Photokina. I wonder what they'll leave up their
sleeves.

I liked the Pentax, but I like the G6 even more.

Here was my wishlist for a compact camera:

+ Responsive. (Promising -- supposedly "55% faster" than the G5.)
+ Bright. (Great -- f/2.0 is about as bright as it gets.)
+ Handles well. (Good -- the G5 wasn't bad, and this can only be
better.)
+ RAW. (YEAH!)

Another very significant bonus (for me) would be that it takes the
same batts and memory as my main camera (10D). Saves a lot of
hassle when traveling! I've also always liked Canon's approach to
image quality, and by Phil's samples, the G6 certainly appears to
deliver; it's not perfect, but it looks pretty durn good to me.

On the down side, it's somewhat bigger than I'd hope for (the G5
felt too bulky for the mission I had in mind), but what with the
trimmed right side, it looks like it could just fit the bill. And,
of course, a wider lens would've been nice.

This is definitely one I'm going to keep an eye on. If the
responsiveness is as good as claimed and if it doesn't feel too
bulky, this might be my next camera purchase.

Petteri
--
[ http://www.prime-junta.tk ]

Click to expand...

Petteri Sulonen · Aug 20, 2004

Philly said:
Phil's G6 samples don't have much shadow areas. Take a look at
Jeff's G6 samples:

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/powershot_g6-review/gallery.shtml

Check out the ones at the church and his "purple torture test", and
see what you think of the G6 noise and its noise reduction
handling. One thing, purple fringing has been significantly
reduced on the G6, compared to the G5.

There is some artifacting attributable to noise reduction, but not that much. All in all, it looks quite impressive -- the G6 at ISO50 doesn't look that much different from my 10D at ISO200, which is remarkable for a small-sensor camera with this pixel count, IMO.

Petteri
--
[ http://www.prime-junta.tk ]

*isteve · Aug 20, 2004

Yes, noise and purple fringing are both very well controlled IMO, but the pics have a slightly clipped video look to them in the transition between under and overexposed. The G6 looks digital and the Pentax looks like film - more noise but better acuity. Its a trade off similar to the one made by Minota on the D7i vs the F707, although the Pentax has lower noise than either of them. I think we are becoming hyper sensitive to noise and ignoring the overall feel of the picture.

However I will admit that until we see side to side pics its hard to judge. Perhaps when we seem them on Daves comparometer we will know for sure.
Steve

Petteri Sulonen said:
Philly said:

Phil's G6 samples don't have much shadow areas. Take a look at
Jeff's G6 samples:

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/powershot_g6-review/gallery.shtml

Check out the ones at the church and his "purple torture test", and
see what you think of the G6 noise and its noise reduction
handling. One thing, purple fringing has been significantly
reduced on the G6, compared to the G5.

Click to expand...

There is some artifacting attributable to noise reduction, but not
that much. All in all, it looks quite impressive -- the G6 at ISO50
doesn't look that much different from my 10D at ISO200, which is
remarkable for a small-sensor camera with this pixel count, IMO.

Petteri
--
[ http://www.prime-junta.tk ]

michalc · Aug 20, 2004

one word from an amateur: considering G6 i am interested in two things ONLY:noise and purple fringing. these are issues still pending in digital cameras, canon is no best in these fields.

*isteve said:
Petteri Sulonen said:

Philly said:

Phil's G6 samples don't have much shadow areas. Take a look at
Jeff's G6 samples:

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/powershot_g6-review/gallery.shtml

Check out the ones at the church and his "purple torture test", and
see what you think of the G6 noise and its noise reduction
handling. One thing, purple fringing has been significantly
reduced on the G6, compared to the G5.

Click to expand...

There is some artifacting attributable to noise reduction, but not
that much. All in all, it looks quite impressive -- the G6 at ISO50
doesn't look that much different from my 10D at ISO200, which is
remarkable for a small-sensor camera with this pixel count, IMO.

Petteri
--
[ http://www.prime-junta.tk ]

Click to expand...

--
mc

Petteri Sulonen · Aug 20, 2004

*isteve wrote:
[snip]

Yep, both are very good. IMO the differences between the two are too small to matter much in practice. The Pentax's major advantage (from my POV) is the more compact form factor. If only those first reports of its (comparatively) sluggish responsiveness prove to be false...

Petteri
--
[ http://www.prime-junta.tk ]

*isteve · Aug 20, 2004

Well fair enough, I dont like CA but Im happy to trade a little noise for detail and colour fidelity. Tyhe look of a picture is more than the sum of its objective measurements.

Canon is doing well in the noise and CA test for the G6. I'm not so far that impressed by the look of the pictures and especially the amount of blown out areas in many of them.
Steve

michalc said:
*isteve said:

Petteri Sulonen said:

Philly said:

Phil's G6 samples don't have much shadow areas. Take a look at
Jeff's G6 samples:

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/powershot_g6-review/gallery.shtml

Check out the ones at the church and his "purple torture test", and
see what you think of the G6 noise and its noise reduction
handling. One thing, purple fringing has been significantly
reduced on the G6, compared to the G5.

Click to expand...

There is some artifacting attributable to noise reduction, but not
that much. All in all, it looks quite impressive -- the G6 at ISO50
doesn't look that much different from my 10D at ISO200, which is
remarkable for a small-sensor camera with this pixel count, IMO.

Petteri
--
[ http://www.prime-junta.tk ]

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
mc

Petteri Sulonen · Aug 20, 2004

*isteve said:
Well fair enough, I dont like CA but Im happy to trade a little
noise for detail and colour fidelity. Tyhe look of a picture is
more than the sum of its objective measurements.
Canon is doing well in the noise and CA test for the G6. I'm not so
far that impressed by the look of the pictures and especially the
amount of blown out areas in many of them.

Well, those Pentax shots had their share of blow-outs, even in some not-so-demanding spots (the girl's shirt, for example).

On a closer look at the G6 pics, though, I tend to agree: the noise reduction does appear to be on the aggressive side; there's clearly discernible smearing of low-contrast detail. OTOH that's not such a big deal, as you can always shoot RAW and convert at different levels of NR.

Petteri
--
[ http://www.prime-junta.tk ]

Peter G · Aug 20, 2004

*isteve said:
If the samples are anything to go by I prefer the Pentax by a nose.

Where are the Pentax Samples??

tom184315 · Aug 20, 2004

Hi Petteri,

any image quality (or other) reason, why you are not considering the Pro1?

Slow focus? At least it seems that from the 8MP range (Sony, Minolta, Olympus, Canon) the Pro1 is definitely the smallest and has more wide angle.

tom

New G6 -- sweeter!

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