How sharp is your lens for real-world shots?

I'm afraid we're comparing apples and pineapples. Using flash,
levels adjustments, or high in-camera sharpening gives misleading
results, as I'll show here.
But underexposure may also give misleading results. For example, I can count more individual strands of hair over the model's left eyelid in your second photo (with flash) than in your first one (natural light), and I think it's largely because the exposure is better in the second shot. (I'm assuming that one image was made soon after the other and that the hair was really the same.) So I would say that the flash brought out the sharpness your lens was capable of producing and that the quality of the lens had been "masked" by underexposure with the settings used to make the natural light image.

On the other hand, flash could also enhance the impression of "sharpness" (even apart from any effect on overall exposure) by creating small shadows in a portrait, for example along skin lines or pores, especially if the flash is off-camera. So I think you're right that it isn't completely fair to compare flash and natural light images when judging lens sharpness.

But then what about the quality and direction of natural light? Direct sunlight from an angle also creates shadows, so should comparison pictures be limited to those made only on overcast days? Or maybe the light should just be "standardized" with respect to quality and direction -- but then as more conditions are imposed, "real world" tests get to be more and more controlled, and we might as well just go back to photographing two-dimensional test patterns in a laboratory.

Of course the reality is that there are a lot of factors other than the use of a particular lens that can influence image sharpness, as many have pointed out. We haven't even mentioned the camera. For example, I think unsharpened raw images from a D70 often look sharper than those from a D100.

--
Jim Kaye
PBase supporter
 
Of course the reality is that there are a lot of factors other than
the use of a particular lens that can influence image sharpness,
Precisely, Jim. That's why throwing money at better glass isn't necessarily a solution... which was the unspoken theme behind this thread.

--
Warm regards, Uncle Frank
FCAS Charter Member, Hummingbird Hunter, Egret Stalker
Dilettante Appassionato
Gallery at http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank/nikon
 
I will say the 24-120 is way too soft for the price. I have an old
AF 35-70mm f2.8 non D len (the cheap one) that's a lot sharper that
it. But now I use the 17-35 AFS and a 85 f1.4 all the time. You
cannot get much sharper then those, especially the 17-35, its so
easy to use that it very difficult to get unsharp picture out of it.
Oh my god, do you really think those pictures are sharp!!!!
No, I don't. They are 100% crops that I offered for comparison
purposes. But the full size versions sharpen well enough for
hobbyist purposes. For example, this...



... turned into this.


do yourself a favour, borrow a 17-35mm AFS and take some snap shot.
After you see the result, you will throw the 24-120 right in the
trash can.
No need, my friend. If I want sharp, I use my 60mm micro.

--
Warm regards, Uncle Frank
FCAS Charter Member, Hummingbird Hunter, Egret Stalker
Dilettante Appassionato
Gallery at http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank/nikon
My 28-70 2.8 is awsomely sharp--- 17-35 and 28-70 are possibly the sharpest lens Nikon makes in the zooms --
papa85 ---(Tony)
http://www.pbase.com/papa85
Pbase supporter
 
Lens sharpness also depends on other factors
I find my Nikon 70-200 2.8vr to be as sharp as it gets.

Alot depends on
  • how the light hits your subject..
  • how accurate the af of your camera is (mine is D2H) proves much better than my D70
  • I find I get more accurate AF when using AF-C mode.
  • Lenses with longer focal length give IMHO better sharpness than wide-angle lenses. This is an impression of sharpness.
  • If there is a lightsource (for example the SUN) in your picture the sharpness is lousy (my experience).. maybe this is more apperant in zoom-lenses.
  • I have a tripod, I NEVER use it. I hate it.. all depends on your type of photography.. in street photography, travel, social etc.. a tripod is never an option.. and a real hassle..
  • I also used the 17-55 2.8dx for this shoot..almost as sharp as the 70-200.
all examples D2H, iso 200
my examples come from the street carnaval from Rotterdam a couple of weeks ago.
For each example I post the 100% crop and then the resized image for evaluation.
My girlfriend used the D70 (6mp) and I find the 4mp is same or better.

A sharp lens on a 4mp will give you better results than a less sharp lens on a 400mp camera imho. Its all about lens quality !!

1st EXAMPLE

CROP



FULL



2nd EXAMPLE





3th EXAMPLE





4th EXAMPLE




Resolution charts and lens reviews are interesting, but can be
misleading... and often lure people into buying unnecessarily large
and expensive hunks of glass. Show how your favorite lens perform
in the real-world by posting some 100% crops. Here's a suggested
format:

Identify your lens completely in the subject.
Embed several examples of diverse subjects.
Submit completely unprocessed - no USM, levels adjustment, etc.
Only submit 100% crops - no down-sizing.
Keep the pics in the range of 600-800 pixels on a side.

OK, folks, here's your chance to strut your stuff. And afterwards,
this thread will provide a good reference for lens shoppers.

--
Warm regards, Uncle Frank
FCAS Charter Member, Hummingbird Hunter, Egret Stalker
Dilettante Appassionato
Gallery at http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank/nikon
 
Are third party lenses welcome too?

Here are three samples of action sports using the Sigma 120-300 f2.8. All three are 100% crops of medium resolution, jpeg fine images, as they came out of the camera. In camera sharpening was "probably" set to normal.

crop from right-most section of frame, 300mm, f4



crop from center of frame, 300mm, f4



crop from center of frame, 300mm,f4



Scott
Resolution charts and lens reviews are interesting, but can be
misleading... and often lure people into buying unnecessarily large
and expensive hunks of glass. Show how your favorite lens perform
in the real-world by posting some 100% crops. Here's a suggested
format:

Identify your lens completely in the subject.
Embed several examples of diverse subjects.
Submit completely unprocessed - no USM, levels adjustment, etc.
Only submit 100% crops - no down-sizing.
Keep the pics in the range of 600-800 pixels on a side.

OK, folks, here's your chance to strut your stuff. And afterwards,
this thread will provide a good reference for lens shoppers.

--
Warm regards, Uncle Frank
FCAS Charter Member, Hummingbird Hunter, Egret Stalker
Dilettante Appassionato
Gallery at http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank/nikon
 
Neil,

I had thought the same as Biggstr6 - but assumed it was because I only used one eye and was squinting with that one...

...but when he went and made his post, that finally made me fire up PS and do the check - and voila! no difference in your first post, but quite a diference - commensurate with a difference in sharpening in the second post ("measurebations" indeed!).
Sorry, hit post instead of edit on the previous....

This is a link to the pbase gallery. Here you will see a
difference. the noshp image has in camera sharpening set to none
and norshp has sharpening set to normal. Let me know if you see a
difference and then I will go into a long story that I don't
understand...

http://www.pbase.com/nrothschild/measurebations&page=2
"measurebations" indeed!
--
Regards, Paul.
http://www.rustydog.demon.co.uk/d70/
 
Neil,

I have to say, I don't entirely trust PBase for my best work - they do seem to take liberties (sometimes, not predictably) with some images - your example is the sort of thing that I dislike about them.
I initially posted the two files to pbase with the SAME image. I
made a mistake when saving in NC. I immediately discovered my
problem and replaced the images (using the pbase replace operation)
with the correct images. When I displayed the gallery in pbase, I
could verify that the images were different (and now correct).
When I wrote the post, with the links, and previewed the post, I
could not see a difference. I thought that might be due to IE
caching the image. I used IE tools to delete my caches and I still
got the same image. I assumed that, despite my attempt to clear my
chaches, the caches survived. I assumed that everyone else would
see the correct image.

If dpreview simply links to the images I don't see why the direct
links to the images would still show my original (identical) images
if my link to the gallery clearly shows two different images and I
have triple checked the links and the links are correct and the
same as the links that I initially posted. I am very puzzled....

Regards,
Neil
This is a link to the pbase gallery. Here you will see a
difference. the noshp image has in camera sharpening set to none
and norshp has sharpening set to normal. Let me know if you see a
difference and then I will go into a long story that I don't
understand...

http://www.pbase.com/nrothschild/measurebations&page=2
Neil I cant see any difference in the two , Are you Playing with us?
So on this occasion (for whatever reason) you are right - but you
do realise you've made me look even more at that lens' wonderful
product, don't you?

--
Regards, Paul.
http://www.rustydog.demon.co.uk/d70/
--
Regards, Paul.
http://www.rustydog.demon.co.uk/d70/
 
Hopefully it is some caching issue related to replacing images. Not sure what you mean by "liberties", though.

Regards,
Neil
I have to say, I don't entirely trust PBase for my best work - they
do seem to take liberties (sometimes, not predictably) with some
images - your example is the sort of thing that I dislike about
them.
I initially posted the two files to pbase with the SAME image. I
made a mistake when saving in NC. I immediately discovered my
problem and replaced the images (using the pbase replace operation)
with the correct images. When I displayed the gallery in pbase, I
could verify that the images were different (and now correct).
When I wrote the post, with the links, and previewed the post, I
could not see a difference. I thought that might be due to IE
caching the image. I used IE tools to delete my caches and I still
got the same image. I assumed that, despite my attempt to clear my
chaches, the caches survived. I assumed that everyone else would
see the correct image.

If dpreview simply links to the images I don't see why the direct
links to the images would still show my original (identical) images
if my link to the gallery clearly shows two different images and I
have triple checked the links and the links are correct and the
same as the links that I initially posted. I am very puzzled....

Regards,
Neil
This is a link to the pbase gallery. Here you will see a
difference. the noshp image has in camera sharpening set to none
and norshp has sharpening set to normal. Let me know if you see a
difference and then I will go into a long story that I don't
understand...

http://www.pbase.com/nrothschild/measurebations&page=2
Neil I cant see any difference in the two , Are you Playing with us?
So on this occasion (for whatever reason) you are right - but you
do realise you've made me look even more at that lens' wonderful
product, don't you?

--
Regards, Paul.
http://www.rustydog.demon.co.uk/d70/
--
Regards, Paul.
http://www.rustydog.demon.co.uk/d70/
 
Liberties - changes to your image file without your knowledge or agreement.

For example do an MD5 checksum of your JPG file prior to uploading.

Check it immediately after uploading, by downloading from another PC and account (eg work & home) - mine verified fine at that point.

Checked again just over a week later (after someone commented about sharpness) and I found it had changed - the MD5 checksum failed and it had shrunk by 20% in size. Note I didn't log in at anytime after the upload prior to the change happening.

I call that a liberty (or user imcompetance - say if you know what I did wrong, please)!
  • I had ensured the only option that I thought risky (about saving space if I recall) was turned off. That's why I only use PBase for family "look at" type use - for this place (which would spot such changes) I use other services.
Hopefully it is some caching issue related to replacing images.
Not sure what you mean by "liberties", though.

Regards,
Neil
--
Regards, Paul.
http://www.rustydog.demon.co.uk/d70/
 
Strange. Think about it though- $20 a year for 200 MB of storage is a steal.

Regards,
Neil
For example do an MD5 checksum of your JPG file prior to uploading.

Check it immediately after uploading, by downloading from another
PC and account (eg work & home) - mine verified fine at that point.

Checked again just over a week later (after someone commented about
sharpness) and I found it had changed - the MD5 checksum failed and
it had shrunk by 20% in size. Note I didn't log in at anytime
after the upload prior to the change happening.

I call that a liberty (or user imcompetance - say if you know what
I did wrong, please)!
  • I had ensured the only option that I thought risky (about saving
space if I recall) was turned off. That's why I only use PBase for
family "look at" type use - for this place (which would spot such
changes) I use other services.
Hopefully it is some caching issue related to replacing images.
Not sure what you mean by "liberties", though.

Regards,
Neil
--
Regards, Paul.
http://www.rustydog.demon.co.uk/d70/
 

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