isambard187008
Forum Enthusiast
What if you can't afford a Porsche, so you go out, buy all the raw materials and build your own? Have you Stolen one from the dealership?
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Crack for c1 Pro
- Thread starter DEEPAKVRAO
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Dubcat
Forum Enthusiast
Growing up I wanted to fly radio control planes. I could not afford to. Would it have been ok for me to steal someones plane to fly just because I wanted to but could not afford to? If photography is a hobby and you can not afford the tools to take part in this hobby then im afraid you cant take part.. simple.. there are lots of things I want to do that I can not afford to do.
Take it one step further. Let's say you are relying on photography to make your income which feeds your family. Well, imagine im a taxi driver. You want to be a taxi driver but you can not afford the taxi. Do you have a right to steal my taxi? No you dont. You find another way to make money.
Whichever way you look at it you have no right to steal someone elses income. Photography is not your RIGHT. You have to buy the tools to play the game. If it is a luxury you can not afford, face facts and do something about it. If I caught you stealing software I wrote you would have a lot more to worry about than the police.
Dubcat.
Take it one step further. Let's say you are relying on photography to make your income which feeds your family. Well, imagine im a taxi driver. You want to be a taxi driver but you can not afford the taxi. Do you have a right to steal my taxi? No you dont. You find another way to make money.
Whichever way you look at it you have no right to steal someone elses income. Photography is not your RIGHT. You have to buy the tools to play the game. If it is a luxury you can not afford, face facts and do something about it. If I caught you stealing software I wrote you would have a lot more to worry about than the police.
Dubcat.
And there are a number of companies that do very good kit replicas.
However what you get at the end of the day is not a Porsche, but a kit car based on something considerably un-Porsche like.
Were it possible to truly replicate a Porsche from raw materials for personal use, I don't know where you wouldstand actaully. Probably not illegal but then again maybe it would, I'm sure the designs are copyrighted and trademarked.
I don't know what your point is though. If the poster were to write their own RAW converter from RAW materials (their brain and books) then they should do so.
http://public.fotki.com/wibble/public_display/
However what you get at the end of the day is not a Porsche, but a kit car based on something considerably un-Porsche like.
Were it possible to truly replicate a Porsche from raw materials for personal use, I don't know where you wouldstand actaully. Probably not illegal but then again maybe it would, I'm sure the designs are copyrighted and trademarked.
I don't know what your point is though. If the poster were to write their own RAW converter from RAW materials (their brain and books) then they should do so.
--
http://public.fotki.com/wibble/public_display/
But I'll give you the benefit.
I think it is fair to say that Phil's rules are aimed at prohibiting the promotion of software piracy. His site has a reputation and an image, he has sponsors, and also has certain amounts of legal liability.
The original question - if allowed to run - would have served as an unofficial poll of DP forum members using stolen software. That isn't going to look great for Phil or DP is it?
I think that the image of a forum being self healing where participants themselves help enforce the rules of their community is a good thing, so posting 'flames' against antisocial individuals is okay. Sure three are some tangiential discussions on music piracy and such, but most of it has stayed relatively on track... Kind of
)
http://public.fotki.com/wibble/public_display/
I think it is fair to say that Phil's rules are aimed at prohibiting the promotion of software piracy. His site has a reputation and an image, he has sponsors, and also has certain amounts of legal liability.
The original question - if allowed to run - would have served as an unofficial poll of DP forum members using stolen software. That isn't going to look great for Phil or DP is it?
I think that the image of a forum being self healing where participants themselves help enforce the rules of their community is a good thing, so posting 'flames' against antisocial individuals is okay. Sure three are some tangiential discussions on music piracy and such, but most of it has stayed relatively on track... Kind of
)--
http://public.fotki.com/wibble/public_display/
When you buy your camera it comes with perfectly good software to do all the basics you need.
To enjoy your hobby you should be capable of paying for the decisions you make. Don't buy things or take up hobbies you cannot support. Sorry, but if you don't have the cash you don't get to play. Many people get into this with low incomes and do scrimp and save and eat ramen to afford that new lens or whatever - they don't seem to complain so much.
Please don't assume that we are all American, live in America or even care what shoes anyone else walks in. Quite frankly I could care less whether someone else can afford to do a hobby or not. I do care about whether they can get food on their table and educate their kids and get medical treatment when they need it.
http://public.fotki.com/wibble/public_display/
To enjoy your hobby you should be capable of paying for the decisions you make. Don't buy things or take up hobbies you cannot support. Sorry, but if you don't have the cash you don't get to play. Many people get into this with low incomes and do scrimp and save and eat ramen to afford that new lens or whatever - they don't seem to complain so much.
Please don't assume that we are all American, live in America or even care what shoes anyone else walks in. Quite frankly I could care less whether someone else can afford to do a hobby or not. I do care about whether they can get food on their table and educate their kids and get medical treatment when they need it.
--
http://public.fotki.com/wibble/public_display/
deepak rao
Veteran Member
By just sweeping under the carpet the fact that plenty of people use pirated software is not going to make it any less true and it really does NOT reflect on dpreview as a site if forum members admit to piracy. Phil has an open membership policy and is NOT responsible for who joins. There is no screening as such
That
--isn't going to look great for Phil or DP is it?
I think that the image of a forum being self healing where
participants themselves help enforce the rules of their community
is a good thing, so posting 'flames' against antisocial individuals
is okay. Sure three are some tangiential discussions on music
piracy and such, but most of it has stayed relatively on track...
Kind of
--
http://public.fotki.com/wibble/public_display/
Deepak
[email protected]
I think C1 is even advertised on this site. Do you not sense a conflict of members admitting they use stolen software with advertisers trying to sell it?
--That
--isn't going to look great for Phil or DP is it?
I think that the image of a forum being self healing where
participants themselves help enforce the rules of their community
is a good thing, so posting 'flames' against antisocial individuals
is okay. Sure three are some tangiential discussions on music
piracy and such, but most of it has stayed relatively on track...
Kind of
--
http://public.fotki.com/wibble/public_display/
Deepak
[email protected]
http://public.fotki.com/wibble/public_display/
Adrian E227460
Leading Member
Not true. Is not being able to afford something a good reason to steal it? I can't afford a BMW, does it mean I can just steal one?? It's theft and it's illegal!
You're not getting it at all, do you?
I've been on the brink of the poverty line for 18 years. Don't give me that cr*p.
--
Warning: photographs steal your soul!
isambard187008
Forum Enthusiast
I guess my point is that you would be in a similar position to if you used 'cracked' software. You would be infringing on intellectual property but you would not be stealing.
There are some countries where copyright infringement wasn't (I'm not sure if it is now) illegal.
I guess there is a debate whether it is immoral or not.
Craig T.
Leading Member
If somoene offered you a means to get that nifty radio controlled plane for free without getting caught (illegally), or forking over a few thousand dollars (or whatever currency your country uses), which would you choose?
I believe most people would choose the free one.
There is a means to get software for free (peer to peer networks). I'm guessing 90% of the people out there who use Photoshop haven't forked over $500 (or whatever it costs these days). Is Adobe hurting for money? No.
The simple reason is this: Those who pirate the software would never have purchased it in the first place.
Yes, it's stealing. Yes, it's illegal. Yes, it's immoral. But to be honest, software companies are not hurting as much as they make it out to be for the simple fact that those who CAN afford it, do pay for it. Those who can't afford it, and never would have purchased it, get it illegally. End result? Same income for the companies and more word-of-mouth from many more users than previously thought.
People lie, cheat, steal every day. Do you drive 55 (or whatever the speed limit is where you are) on the highways? Do you always come to a complete stop at a stop sign? Do you really check all your safety lights on your vehicle before driving it every day?
Let's focus our attention on people who are ripping people off of millions/trillions of dollars (corpoarte scandals, fake charities, etc). Using a piece of software like C1 Pro or Photoshop doesn't even register on the radar screen in the big picture.
-Craig
I believe most people would choose the free one.
There is a means to get software for free (peer to peer networks). I'm guessing 90% of the people out there who use Photoshop haven't forked over $500 (or whatever it costs these days). Is Adobe hurting for money? No.
The simple reason is this: Those who pirate the software would never have purchased it in the first place.
Yes, it's stealing. Yes, it's illegal. Yes, it's immoral. But to be honest, software companies are not hurting as much as they make it out to be for the simple fact that those who CAN afford it, do pay for it. Those who can't afford it, and never would have purchased it, get it illegally. End result? Same income for the companies and more word-of-mouth from many more users than previously thought.
People lie, cheat, steal every day. Do you drive 55 (or whatever the speed limit is where you are) on the highways? Do you always come to a complete stop at a stop sign? Do you really check all your safety lights on your vehicle before driving it every day?
Let's focus our attention on people who are ripping people off of millions/trillions of dollars (corpoarte scandals, fake charities, etc). Using a piece of software like C1 Pro or Photoshop doesn't even register on the radar screen in the big picture.
-Craig
::> > Don't critisize someone unless you've walked in their shoes....
::> I've been on the brink of the poverty line for 18 years. Don't give
::> me that cr*p.
Apparently "poverty" has a different meaning in your country then in the rest of the World since you buy software at market price....
--
I am not politically correct. I'm honest instead...
::> I've been on the brink of the poverty line for 18 years. Don't give
::> me that cr*p.
Apparently "poverty" has a different meaning in your country then in the rest of the World since you buy software at market price....
--
I am not politically correct. I'm honest instead...
If you are then think of something new, because this comparison makes no sense at all.
When the time comes that car manufacturers design and create a car and then clone that car making millions of others just like it at almost no cost then you can come back with your "what if I couldn't afford a new BMW but really wanted it....."
How much does one box of software cost the manufacturer? Does he really loose money because of piracy? People "steal" software because they can't afford legal software. If they didn't have the means to steal it without getting in trouble then they wouldn't buy it at all.
--
I am not politically correct. I'm honest instead...
When the time comes that car manufacturers design and create a car and then clone that car making millions of others just like it at almost no cost then you can come back with your "what if I couldn't afford a new BMW but really wanted it....."
How much does one box of software cost the manufacturer? Does he really loose money because of piracy? People "steal" software because they can't afford legal software. If they didn't have the means to steal it without getting in trouble then they wouldn't buy it at all.
--
I am not politically correct. I'm honest instead...
Dubcat
Forum Enthusiast
I could get that plane for free without getting caught! I could buy stolen goods! Would I do it? No way Jose!
I CAN get software for free without getting caught. Do I do it? NO!
I do understand that there are two different points of view here. I will not shove my point of view down anyones throat by going on about this
I just wanted to express an opinon and appreciate you have a different opinion to me.
Therse are my opinions and if you don't like them I have others.
Cheers,
Dubcat.
I CAN get software for free without getting caught. Do I do it? NO!
I do understand that there are two different points of view here. I will not shove my point of view down anyones throat by going on about this
I just wanted to express an opinon and appreciate you have a different opinion to me.Therse are my opinions and if you don't like them I have others.
Cheers,
Dubcat.
I like you're attitude Dubcat! It seems like some people can't understand that what they think is right isn't right for everyone. Each person is entitled to his/her opinions and can do as they please.
I don't see much wrong with copying software, but I'm not going to insist that you do it instead of paying full price. On the other hand, don't tell me what to do and not to do. Unless you have a share in Microsoft. Then you are entitled to defend your $$.
I am not politically correct. I'm honest instead...
I don't see much wrong with copying software, but I'm not going to insist that you do it instead of paying full price. On the other hand, don't tell me what to do and not to do. Unless you have a share in Microsoft. Then you are entitled to defend your $$.
--I could get that plane for free without getting caught! I could
buy stolen goods! Would I do it? No way Jose!
I CAN get software for free without getting caught. Do I do it? NO!
I do understand that there are two different points of view here.
I will not shove my point of view down anyones throat by going on
about this
you have a different opinion to me.
Therse are my opinions and if you don't like them I have others.
Cheers,
Dubcat.
I am not politically correct. I'm honest instead...
JC JC
Senior Member
People are inherantly greedy.
Why do these companies charge $20 for a CD? Answer: Greed. They want to get as much as they possibly can get. They would charge much more if they could.
But it's not "us" and "them". People are all the same. The consumer is also greedy and wants as much as he can get too...which currently happens to be free downloads.
Greed is a 2 way street. Ain't life a bich?
I don't shed salty tears for either side of the battle. In the end, the most selfish and ruthless of the two will end up winning anyway.
big deal about mp3 .. for years we listened to music on the radio and recorded it off the air, suddenly its a crime to "record" off the modern air?(i.e. internet) bah
i agree with evil eggplant somewhat
beam me up scotty
im giving it all shes got captain
i agree with evil eggplant somewhat
--
beam me up scotty
im giving it all shes got captain
say "we should share ..rofl " "everyone deserves to have all the music and software "
or soem argument like that
beam me up scotty
im giving it all shes got captain
or soem argument like that
--
beam me up scotty
im giving it all shes got captain
Varun Arora
Well-known member
This is rich. Truly! I absolutely can't stop laughing. Trouble is, I'm at work! ;-)
-------
Varun Arora, Singapore
Pbase Supporter
EOS300D with a range of lenses and a nice flash
The equipment's there; the talent... uhhh... what's that?
- V.
--
-------
Varun Arora, Singapore
Pbase Supporter
EOS300D with a range of lenses and a nice flash
The equipment's there; the talent... uhhh... what's that?
JediBear
Leading Member
This thread is fascinating it is still going!
I have a copy of C1 which I shall value to my dying day-which could be tomorrow. It is a trial version 1.3.1. It is a great program and I will probubly use it to my dying day.
Once upon a time there was an unrully mob that was lead by an educated wiseman who saw the light - he was ethical, he was strong, he was "bought-up right" A group of more uncouth, uneducated down and outs, is hard to imagine, professional victims of generations of exploitation, but a people good at heart, not addicted to the ignoble behaviour of the time.
When the going got too tough for this leader he went up the mountain to consult the "spirit of things, the One unifying force" The one loving unifying forct that gave him the power over matter itself, and the answer was written IN STONE (the minerals of the earth).
Further down the track came another man enlightened, strong a master of love AND wisdom and he was asked - well what about the poor? The reality is they steal in order to survive. His advice was that the rich who are wise should only harvest 90% and the rest should be allowed to be taken by the widows, the vagabonds, travelers and other wretches.
Why? So that the rich can remind themselves, if they are wise, that they too will be called upon to give back to nature the very minerals (the very stones upon which is written the law) that they have appropriated from Gaia, as she is called these days) to build thier house (body).
It is interesting that humanity once only possessed 4 rules and one of them was "do not steal or casue others to steal" coming out of the dawn of time written down somewhere between 5,000 and 15,000 years ago.
So every time I open C1 now I feal my friend, god, in the mask of death and destruction, bringing Me closer to him, it hurts, my own poverty hurts.
This is what is called the human condition.
So that nobody can acuse me of having it tougher than me I will tell you my story.
My mothers family, an extended family of 12 full families was massacred one survivor started a family in Russia another in America and the third in Australia and I have come to hate this cain and able drama I wish it would come to some kind of resolution. I have spent most of my life in various institutions because of it, and, a professional victim of what I can now define as exploitation.
Americans - "In god we trust"
I had an American friend once - a more kind, intelligent, sensitive, person I have not meet anywhere - I miss him, but he suprised me one day, when he was going back to california, because he said, the first thing he was going to do when he got back was buy a gun to protect his family.
This forum is therapeutic for me and this thread very important to me. It shows me the way things are, and it is easier to bear, and I pray for the day when I can truly say I contend against no one and no thing".
If you are still with me - I hope this helps - (I warned you it was the moral mountaintop).
I have a copy of C1 which I shall value to my dying day-which could be tomorrow. It is a trial version 1.3.1. It is a great program and I will probubly use it to my dying day.
Once upon a time there was an unrully mob that was lead by an educated wiseman who saw the light - he was ethical, he was strong, he was "bought-up right" A group of more uncouth, uneducated down and outs, is hard to imagine, professional victims of generations of exploitation, but a people good at heart, not addicted to the ignoble behaviour of the time.
When the going got too tough for this leader he went up the mountain to consult the "spirit of things, the One unifying force" The one loving unifying forct that gave him the power over matter itself, and the answer was written IN STONE (the minerals of the earth).
Further down the track came another man enlightened, strong a master of love AND wisdom and he was asked - well what about the poor? The reality is they steal in order to survive. His advice was that the rich who are wise should only harvest 90% and the rest should be allowed to be taken by the widows, the vagabonds, travelers and other wretches.
Why? So that the rich can remind themselves, if they are wise, that they too will be called upon to give back to nature the very minerals (the very stones upon which is written the law) that they have appropriated from Gaia, as she is called these days) to build thier house (body).
It is interesting that humanity once only possessed 4 rules and one of them was "do not steal or casue others to steal" coming out of the dawn of time written down somewhere between 5,000 and 15,000 years ago.
So every time I open C1 now I feal my friend, god, in the mask of death and destruction, bringing Me closer to him, it hurts, my own poverty hurts.
This is what is called the human condition.
So that nobody can acuse me of having it tougher than me I will tell you my story.
My mothers family, an extended family of 12 full families was massacred one survivor started a family in Russia another in America and the third in Australia and I have come to hate this cain and able drama I wish it would come to some kind of resolution. I have spent most of my life in various institutions because of it, and, a professional victim of what I can now define as exploitation.
Americans - "In god we trust"
I had an American friend once - a more kind, intelligent, sensitive, person I have not meet anywhere - I miss him, but he suprised me one day, when he was going back to california, because he said, the first thing he was going to do when he got back was buy a gun to protect his family.
This forum is therapeutic for me and this thread very important to me. It shows me the way things are, and it is easier to bear, and I pray for the day when I can truly say I contend against no one and no thing".
If you are still with me - I hope this helps - (I warned you it was the moral mountaintop).
PHGN
Well-known member
Piracy is not the same as stealing. Those who go one about 'it's like taking a car' or whatever are being completely irrational and thus discrediting their whole position. Theft and piracy of intellectual property (eg software) are fundamentally different. Piracy is illegal and with good reasons. That 'it is theft' is not one of them. Most piracy discussions just sink down to the same old and flawed arguments and are a complete waste of time and do nothing to help the situation - rather they harm it by ensuring that no progress can be made or benefit derived from discussion.
Piracy can result in loss of sales. This causes the producers to loose revenue and thus profit. Thus the pirate has gained something at the cost of the producer. However, the situation changes if the act of piracy does not result in a loss of sales - if, for instance, the pirate would not be able to afford the software he downloads. In this case the pirate gains the use of the software and the producer does not lose revenue. In the latter case the act of piracy is indeed a 'victimless crime'. Further, in certain cases the producer does, surprisingly, benefit from the piracy. For certain products, particularly professional software (eg CAD systems, 3D modeling, NLEs etc etc.) in addition to the direct monetary revenue from sales, the producer also receives a goodwill income as a result of having more users who are trained in the use of their product, better recognition in the industry in question - all the sorts of things that make up a company's goodwill. Now they derive at least some of this increase in goodwill from both sales and piracy. In short, in certain cases both pirate and producer in fact benefit.
Whether this makes piracy 'right' or 'wrong' is a normative judgment, and I leave it to you to make up your own mind. That it is illegal is, on the other hand, a fact.
So please, no more 'if I want a Porsche...'.
Please can we get back to talking about photography? (Though this is more interesting than 'Just took [bad] photos of my baby, lets see yours' or 'Should I buy a D70?'.)
--
Peter Nordberg
'The solution to any engineering problem is to add more horsepower'
Piracy can result in loss of sales. This causes the producers to loose revenue and thus profit. Thus the pirate has gained something at the cost of the producer. However, the situation changes if the act of piracy does not result in a loss of sales - if, for instance, the pirate would not be able to afford the software he downloads. In this case the pirate gains the use of the software and the producer does not lose revenue. In the latter case the act of piracy is indeed a 'victimless crime'. Further, in certain cases the producer does, surprisingly, benefit from the piracy. For certain products, particularly professional software (eg CAD systems, 3D modeling, NLEs etc etc.) in addition to the direct monetary revenue from sales, the producer also receives a goodwill income as a result of having more users who are trained in the use of their product, better recognition in the industry in question - all the sorts of things that make up a company's goodwill. Now they derive at least some of this increase in goodwill from both sales and piracy. In short, in certain cases both pirate and producer in fact benefit.
Whether this makes piracy 'right' or 'wrong' is a normative judgment, and I leave it to you to make up your own mind. That it is illegal is, on the other hand, a fact.
So please, no more 'if I want a Porsche...'.
Please can we get back to talking about photography? (Though this is more interesting than 'Just took [bad] photos of my baby, lets see yours' or 'Should I buy a D70?'.)
--
Peter Nordberg
'The solution to any engineering problem is to add more horsepower'
- Enzo Ferrari
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