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Qwntm

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Pentax surprised the heck out of us all and really did release the MZ-S based digital (with current improvements) at the end of this year!

I could see it now:

Full frame
11 MP
That wonderful MZ-S viewfinder
That wonderful MZ-S interface
Magnesium Body

And the kicker: $3,500.00!!!

Yes please, I'll take two!!!!

(Hope springs eternal...)

Ed
 
... Pentax made a MZ-5D at a price I can afford!
with a full featured RAW converter and photo browser...

and with a Foveon sensor that can handle 800 ISO with little or no image noise, and exposure times up to 30 minutes without problems.

Best wishes
Roland
Qwntm said:
Pentax surprised the heck out of us all and really did release the
MZ-S based digital (with current improvements) at the end of this
year!

I could see it now:

Full frame
11 MP
That wonderful MZ-S viewfinder
That wonderful MZ-S interface
Magnesium Body

And the kicker: $3,500.00!!!

Yes please, I'll take two!!!!

(Hope springs eternal...)

Ed
Click to expand...
 
Roland Mabo said:
... Pentax made a MZ-5D at a price I can afford!
with a full featured RAW converter and photo browser...
and with a Foveon sensor that can handle 800 ISO with little or no
image noise, and exposure times up to 30 minutes without problems.
Click to expand...
NO!

--Sophie

(for f* 's sake, anyone would think you were George Preddy!)
 
Roland Mabo said:
... Pentax made a MZ-5D at a price I can afford!
with a full featured RAW converter and photo browser...
and with a Foveon sensor that can handle 800 ISO with little or no
image noise, and exposure times up to 30 minutes without problems.
Click to expand...
NO!

--Sophie

(for f* 's sake - anyone would think you were George Preddy)
 
Hi Roland,

The number one thing I don't like about the foveons right now is absolutely no low light ability at all. Night shots are right out.

But on the other side of things I think you are more likely to get your wish than I am to get mine. I wouldn't be surprised if the new "cheapie" Pentax digital is more in line with what you want...

Ed
 
Qwntm said:
Full frame
11 MP
That wonderful MZ-S viewfinder
That wonderful MZ-S interface
Magnesium Body

And the kicker: $3,500.00!!!
Click to expand...
Love the magnesium body, especially if it had a built-in grip and second shutter release. Would LOVE to see it sealed like a pro camera. Love to see optional focus screens and faster auto focus. And I'd personally like to be able to load in custom exposure curves to tweak the preset exposure modes.

Can't say that 11MP would do any more for me than 8MP would. To me the larger files and fewer frames per card are not worth the extra resolution. And I most sincerely hope that Pentax stays with the 1.5x sensor size. Again, for my personal needs it's just not an issue.

Realistically, I doubt we'll hear anything about the pro model until at least next February, and more likely next September. But it sure would be nice!
 
Cpt Galant said:
Cpt Galant said:
Full frame
11 MP
That wonderful MZ-S viewfinder
That wonderful MZ-S interface
Magnesium Body

And the kicker: $3,500.00!!!
Click to expand...
Love the magnesium body, especially if it had a built-in grip and
second shutter release. Would LOVE to see it sealed like a pro
camera. Love to see optional focus screens and faster auto focus.
And I'd personally like to be able to load in custom exposure
curves to tweak the preset exposure modes.

Can't say that 11MP would do any more for me than 8MP would. To me
the larger files and fewer frames per card are not worth the extra
resolution. And I most sincerely hope that Pentax stays with the
1.5x sensor size. Again, for my personal needs it's just not an
issue.

Realistically, I doubt we'll hear anything about the pro model
until at least next February, and more likely next September. But
it sure would be nice!
Click to expand...
From what I here Pentax's full frame sensor will be a 6x7 type format camera. Pentax, I believe are sticking to the APS sized sensor for the this sized camera.
--
Lance*istD
 
I like the concept of Foveon, but when they get the ISO, image noise and long exposure times right - it will be really good. Now it's far too limited for all-round photography. But the idea with foveon is good... It "just" needs more development...

Best wishes
Roland
Qwntm said:
Hi Roland,

The number one thing I don't like about the foveons right now is
absolutely no low light ability at all. Night shots are right out.

But on the other side of things I think you are more likely to get
your wish than I am to get mine. I wouldn't be surprised if the new
"cheapie" Pentax digital is more in line with what you want...

Ed
Click to expand...
 
Hi,

I'd like to see a DSLR based on the MZ-S too. However, even if Pentax decide to go this route, they'll have to change the MZ-S user interface to give the new camera two control wheels. Newer DA lenses don't have an aperture ring so a one-wheel interface like the MZ-S cannot operate properly excpet in P and Tv modes.

Also I don't think Pentax will go full-frame so soon. It's possible that a higher-end model in 2005 uses a new Sony APS-sized CCD with more pixels than 6MP.

Best,

Peter
Qwntm said:
Pentax surprised the heck out of us all and really did release the
MZ-S based digital (with current improvements) at the end of this
year!

I could see it now:

Full frame
11 MP
That wonderful MZ-S viewfinder
That wonderful MZ-S interface
Magnesium Body

And the kicker: $3,500.00!!!

Yes please, I'll take two!!!!

(Hope springs eternal...)

Ed
Click to expand...
--
Peter Fang - Pentax *ist D / MZ-S / Z-1 / LX
 
Roland Mabo said:
I like the concept of Foveon, but when they get the ISO, image
noise and long exposure times right - it will be really good. Now
it's far too limited for all-round photography. But the idea with
foveon is good... It "just" needs more development...
Click to expand...
The concept is also faulty - the problems currently being twofold with no obvious cure. Firstly: if you were going to build colour filters, would you use bulk silicon? Especially when you can't precisely control the depth. Secondly, the stacked nature of the cells means varying sensitivity in the colour channels and saturation in any colour channel leaks into the others (i.e Foveon pictures blow to white rather than to the colour of the object).

But then, the whole concept is flakey: you don't have full resolution colour vision, so why design a sensor to capture what you can't see?

And then there's the current implementation. Low resolution (3MP) and no anti-alias filter (though at least they now use microlenses). Horrendous problems with colour accuracy (its more like the software sees what comes off the sensor and replaces it with a known value for "sky"). High noise (higher than the E-1, itself poor for a DSLR), especially producing a sort of chroma noise. And all on a smaller piece of silicon than the *ist D's (i.e. worse problems with wide angle lenses). Plus their locked flow - no in-camera processing of the image - you have to shoot in raw and then convert (slowly) on a PC. And the software sharpens a LOT by default...

Limited use? Yes, indeed: you need a situation where there's no alias artifacts/moire, the colours fall into the gamut that the software can correctly guess, that's brightly lit but doesn't blow the sensor, and you don't care about the low resolution.

No, thank you.

--Sophie
 
Qwntm said:
Pentax surprised the heck out of us all and really did release the
MZ-S based digital (with current improvements) at the end of this
year!

I could see it now:

Full frame
11 MP
That wonderful MZ-S viewfinder
That wonderful MZ-S interface
Magnesium Body

And the kicker: $3,500.00!!!
Click to expand...
In CDN $$$$, of course :))
Qwntm said:
Yes please, I'll take two!!!!

(Hope springs eternal...)

Ed
Click to expand...
--
It's amazing what one can do when one doesn't know what one is doing :)
 
I still like the basic concept, it "just" needs more development - which you obviously agrees with.

Namasté
Roland
Sophie Wilson said:
The concept is also faulty - the problems currently being twofold
with no obvious cure. Firstly: if you were going to build colour
filters, would you use bulk silicon? Especially when you can't
precisely control the depth. Secondly, the stacked nature of the
cells means varying sensitivity in the colour channels and
saturation in any colour channel leaks into the others (i.e Foveon
pictures blow to white rather than to the colour of the object).

But then, the whole concept is flakey: you don't have full
resolution colour vision, so why design a sensor to capture what
you can't see?

And then there's the current implementation. Low resolution (3MP)
and no anti-alias filter (though at least they now use
microlenses). Horrendous problems with colour accuracy (its more
like the software sees what comes off the sensor and replaces it
with a known value for "sky"). High noise (higher than the E-1,
itself poor for a DSLR), especially producing a sort of chroma
noise. And all on a smaller piece of silicon than the *ist D's
(i.e. worse problems with wide angle lenses). Plus their locked
flow - no in-camera processing of the image - you have to shoot in
raw and then convert (slowly) on a PC. And the software sharpens a
LOT by default...

Limited use? Yes, indeed: you need a situation where there's no
alias artifacts/moire, the colours fall into the gamut that the
software can correctly guess, that's brightly lit but doesn't blow
the sensor, and you don't care about the low resolution.

No, thank you.

--Sophie
Click to expand...
 
Qwntm said:
Pentax surprised the heck out of us all and really did release the
MZ-S based digital (with current improvements) at the end of this
year!

I could see it now:

Full frame
Click to expand...
Yes but unlikely and too expensive
Qwntm said:
11 MP
Click to expand...
Yes but 8 would do ( or even 6 if it's cheap enough)
Qwntm said:
That wonderful MZ-S viewfinder
Click to expand...
Whats wrong with the IstD viewfinder ?
Qwntm said:
That wonderful MZ-S interface
Click to expand...
MZS interface ? that would be rubbish compared to the *istD and Z1/P. How would you change the aperture on the FAJ lenses ? the 16-45 would be useless.
Qwntm said:
Magnesium Body
Click to expand...
Why ? if you drop it it breaks with a steel body how is this any better
Qwntm said:
And the kicker: $3,500.00!!!
Click to expand...
Too bl* dy expensive.
Qwntm said:
Yes please, I'll take two!!!!

(Hope springs eternal...)

Ed
Click to expand...
 
John Mc Dermott said:
John Mc Dermott said:
Full frame
Click to expand...
Yes but unlikely and too expensive
John Mc Dermott said:
11 MP
Click to expand...
Yes but 8 would do ( or even 6 if it's cheap enough)
Click to expand...
I suspect Pentax are pretty tied to Sony for sensors. (Or at least they don't want to use a different maker's part in each camera) We'll have to see what sony have to offer camera makers. I don't expect full frame to be affordable soon, and Pentax will probably concentrate their pro efforts in Medium format. However you do get to a point where more pixels don't make the prints any better, and I think that things will plateau between 10 and 20MP (less for the consumer digi-cams). Bigger pixels give better pictures, so I think the next generation will be full frame, 16 bits per colour plane and 11 or 12MP.
John Mc Dermott said:
John Mc Dermott said:
That wonderful MZ-S viewfinder
Click to expand...
Whats wrong with the IstD viewfinder ?
Click to expand...
Good question. It's the best in it's class. The focusing screens are user changable. Well a user can remove and re-fit them. A choice of screens would be good.
John Mc Dermott said:
John Mc Dermott said:
That wonderful MZ-S interface
Click to expand...
MZS interface ? that would be rubbish compared to the *istD and
Z1/P. How would you change the aperture on the FAJ lenses ? the
16-45 would be useless.
Click to expand...
Hear hear !

I thought hyper program was a wonderful innovation on the *ist-D. Only then I got a Z1. Of course the Z1 works both ways with the body or the apperture ring setting exposure.
John Mc Dermott said:
John Mc Dermott said:
Magnesium Body
Click to expand...
Why ? if you drop it it breaks with a steel body how is this any
better
Click to expand...
I want my camera body hand carved from a block of granite by highly skilled masons and the electronics shock mounted to survive a 200G impact.

Granite is far more durable than will position the centre of gravity closer to the optimum point improving balance.
 
Lance B said:
From what I here Pentax's full frame sensor will be a 6x7 type
format camera. Pentax, I believe are sticking to the APS sized
sensor for the this sized camera.
--
Lance*istD
Click to expand...
THAT is a full frame sensor that I can look forward to! I just don't see a need for a 35mm sized sensor considering the recent abundance of good, low cost wide angle lenses and the already great image quality the APS sensors provide. But a medium format digital camera (especially if it was available at a reasonable price) would be something to look forward to!
 
Pentax was going to use the 6mp Philips sensor for its full frame digital. Not sure what happened to that sensor as Pentax had to drop its plans.

I don't see Canon supplying Pentax with its sensor, and certainly not at a cheap price even if it does. Pentax is making noises about a medium format DSLR, so perhaps it has found a source for large sensors. If so, a full frame 35mm would be possible. It is quite possible that Pentax may have struck a deal with Kodak for these large sensors. Kodak will supply the sensors for the medium format as long as Pentax does not make a digital back for other medium format cameras.

If Pentax uses Kodak's full frame sensor, it may be able to squeeze acceptable performance, good color balance and low noise from it, considering that it outdid the D100 in color accuracy using the same Sony sensor as the Nikon body. A $3500 price tag is entirely possible since Kodak has been selling its full frame for just a little more and Kodak has to get its camera bodies from Canon and Nikon.

Perhaps Pentax can sweeten the deal by letting Kodak sell a rebadged Pentax full frame under the Kodak label. Such a camera would certainly be much more compact than the Kodak full frame cameras on the market.

So, there is indeed a very good chance that your hope will become reality. So, be prepared to pay for your dream!
Qwntm said:
Pentax surprised the heck out of us all and really did release the
MZ-S based digital (with current improvements) at the end of this
year!

I could see it now:

Full frame
11 MP
That wonderful MZ-S viewfinder
That wonderful MZ-S interface
Magnesium Body

And the kicker: $3,500.00!!!

Yes please, I'll take two!!!!

(Hope springs eternal...)

Ed
Click to expand...
 
James O'Neill said:
James O'Neill said:
James O'Neill said:
Full frame
Click to expand...
Yes but unlikely and too expensive
James O'Neill said:
11 MP
Click to expand...
Yes but 8 would do ( or even 6 if it's cheap enough)
Click to expand...
I suspect Pentax are pretty tied to Sony for sensors. (Or at least
they don't want to use a different maker's part in each camera)
We'll have to see what sony have to offer camera makers.
Click to expand...
My guess is that Sony will offer 8 or more megapixels and keep the 1.5x format.
James O'Neill said:
I don't
expect full frame to be affordable soon,
Click to expand...
That would depend on what is considered affordable. To the professionals, an $8,000 full frame is affordable since they shoot so much film each month. It will only take them 2-3 years at the most to recoup their money. Even if someone shoots one roll of film per week, the savings in film and processing per year is about $400-$500. A pro is going to shoot a whole lot more than that.
James O'Neill said:
and Pentax will probably
concentrate their pro efforts in Medium format. However you do get
to a point where more pixels don't make the prints any better, and
I think that things will plateau between 10 and 20MP (less for the
consumer digi-cams). Bigger pixels give better pictures, so I think
the next generation will be full frame, 16 bits per colour plane
and 11 or 12MP.
Click to expand...
I certainly hope so, but it is also possible that the next upgrade would be something like 8mp and 1.3x format from both Canon and the makers using the Sony chips. I suspect that the move to full frame won't happen for at least 2-3 years for the masses. It takes that long for the sales of less than full frame cameras to become saturated. It takes that long for memory and write speed technology to catch up (Moore's Law) so that full frame can be as fast as the 6mp cameras are today. I think Canon will bring out an 8mp 1.3x camera at $1200-$1500 and then drop the price to $1,000 by next summer. Sony will counter with an 8mp 1.5x sensor but sales will be slow. Sony would then have to bring out a larger format sensor to compete with Canon. When that happens, Canon will move all of its digital cameras to full frame, except for the digital Rebel replacement, which will then be 1.3x and sells for $600-800. This should happen, as I said, in 2-3 years. By then film cameras will likely be as dead as the turntable.
James O'Neill said:
I thought hyper program was a wonderful innovation on the *ist-D.
Only then I got a Z1. Of course the Z1 works both ways with the
body or the apperture ring setting exposure.
Click to expand...
The ZX-7 can also do hyper manual mode with the toggle switch around the shutter release. Pentax can do a hybrid PZ-1P and ZX-5 interface, and give us both a shutter speed dial and a hyper mode.
James O'Neill said:
James O'Neill said:
James O'Neill said:
Magnesium Body
Click to expand...
Why ? if you drop it it breaks with a steel body how is this any
better
Click to expand...
I want my camera body hand carved from a block of granite by highly
skilled masons and the electronics shock mounted to survive a 200G
impact.
Click to expand...
That wouldn't be a good idea because it will surely hurt if the camera ever bangs against your body.
James O'Neill said:
Granite is far more durable than will position the centre of
gravity closer to the optimum point improving balance.
Click to expand...
How about using some of the space age materials bicycle makers are using to make bicylces? That would be cool, not to mention strong and light.
 
Pentax did it 4 years ago

the prototype has been presented at the photokina for two years then the body was never produced

some views at that pentax web bible:
http://kmp.bdimitrov.de/bodies/prototypes/MZ-D.html
Anastigmat said:
I don't see Canon supplying Pentax with its sensor, and certainly
not at a cheap price even if it does. Pentax is making noises
about a medium format DSLR, so perhaps it has found a source for
large sensors. If so, a full frame 35mm would be possible. It is
quite possible that Pentax may have struck a deal with Kodak for
these large sensors. Kodak will supply the sensors for the medium
format as long as Pentax does not make a digital back for other
medium format cameras.

If Pentax uses Kodak's full frame sensor, it may be able to squeeze
acceptable performance, good color balance and low noise from it,
considering that it outdid the D100 in color accuracy using the
same Sony sensor as the Nikon body. A $3500 price tag is entirely
possible since Kodak has been selling its full frame for just a
little more and Kodak has to get its camera bodies from Canon and
Nikon.

Perhaps Pentax can sweeten the deal by letting Kodak sell a
rebadged Pentax full frame under the Kodak label. Such a camera
would certainly be much more compact than the Kodak full frame
cameras on the market.

So, there is indeed a very good chance that your hope will become
reality. So, be prepared to pay for your dream!
Qwntm said:
Pentax surprised the heck out of us all and really did release the
MZ-S based digital (with current improvements) at the end of this
year!

I could see it now:

Full frame
11 MP
That wonderful MZ-S viewfinder
That wonderful MZ-S interface
Magnesium Body

And the kicker: $3,500.00!!!

Yes please, I'll take two!!!!

(Hope springs eternal...)

Ed
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Vince
 
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