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Nightmare professional photography scenario
- Thread starter loggerhead
- Start date
Don't be an idiot! If you'd ever used an F4, you'd know that is is completely possible- the camera makes quite a bit of mirror and winder noise, so if the shutter was bad, you might never know it. The other possible situation was that the lens was not stopping down to the proper aperture- I had this happen during a studio shoot with this camera, and couldn't figure out why everything was overexposed by three or four stops.
Everything was being shot wide open...
http://www.conklinphoto.com
Everything was being shot wide open...
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http://www.conklinphoto.com
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Owned one shot many weddings. sn 2490178. Never shot it as an only camera. Do not know a pro who would? I can hear the shutter if it does not fire, it stopped once sand in the mechanism from a beach shoot and I could tell the difference right away no question about it. But I would check each time when loading also. Too bad you did not. Just my experiance sorry yours was soo bad. Do not know one pro who whould shoot one camera for a wedding. Most would borrow, rent or anything they could do to protect themselves. All above statements are true about the flash not giving green light must have not know anything about photography.
Thanks for the idiot statement that is a great way to start a conversation sure makes me want to have a conversation with you? HA bye bye have a great life? Have fun take lots of good pictures. These threads are too funny.
Let the light in! Walt
[email protected]
Sammy Yousef
Senior Member
I'd expect any pro gets prime shots, otherwise why hire a pro at all. All guests should be instructed to steer clear of the pro and to stop shooting if he needs for a shot he's taking. Its the guys that insist no one else is allowed to shoot anything, then charge stupid amounts for prints while holding the rest of the images ot ransom that bug me no end.
[rest snipped]
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Sammy
bhenning
Forum Enthusiast
I'm glad you find it helpful
I charge enough not to have to count on print orders. Pretty much every couple I've talked to wants negatives/digital files... they feel they are held hostage for prints.
You are right, I don't get as many print orders as if I did not release digital files, but I charge enough for my time for it not to be an issue (for me). Also people still tend to order some prints, as when they compare Wallmart prints to retouched prints of mine they've seen... they tend to want my prints. Mind you, I also price the prints lower than people who do not give out negatives, but I can afford to, as I don't have to recover shooting time costs.
Most of the time, hourly, for an agreed number of hours, with a two hour minimum at any location (unless I drive directly from one location to the next and the time is counted as a contigous event).
This fee covers the initial sales meeting, a booking meeting where we discuss what shots they are looking for, where the wedding will be etc., the time spent at the wedding as booked, and a followup meeting where they get the CD's/DVD; and also the time to download the shots from the camera, toss out the horrible ones, generate a web page with web sized proofs, and burn the CDs/DVD.
It does NOT include retouching or any prints.
As a rule of thumb, figure on 3h for every hour spent shooting for meetings, travel, downloading, converting, cd burning.
Most people want some prints; but usually only 8x10 or larger. For 4x6's they go to cheap processors. Frankly, I can't blame them; and I can't afford to come even close to Sam's/Wallmart pricing for 4x6's as I personally cannot resist at least minimally hand tweaking images.
I have found that most people don't really get the "a la carte" approach, so I think I will be starting to emphasize packages for next year; giving X hours of coverage with a stated number of retouched prints of specific sizes, and CD's, but not including 4x6 proofs.
I lost a couple of weddings when at the sales call the people loved the idea of "a la carte" pricing and just paying for my time... but then tried to get me to throw in a free 4x6 of every frame shot; which I could not do without significantly raising my hourly rate.
You are most welcome!Thanks for any further info you care to share
Bill
Andrew Chiciak
Senior Member
Simple reason...most people do not want to spend the extra money on a second shooter. A lot of the comments in this thread show a great ignorance. I have been shooting weddings successfully for many years...things happen from time to time. It is a very stressful occupation because many times you only have one chance to get the shot. Commercial guys get all day to make one good image, sports photographers are usually in a situation where there are many other photographers there, so if they miss a key shot...its isn't the end of the world. Wedding guys need more skill than anyone, but yet are way underpaid. I'd like to have half of what the band leader gets at some of the society weddings I do...and they don't even have any followup work after the wedding...they only work 5 hrs vs my 10 and if they play a wrong note, nobody even notices....yet brides willing pay 10 to 12 grand for a good band and balk when the photographer wants to charge 5 for all day coverage, retouching, artistry, and albums.We are not holding anyone hostage...just trying to make a decent living...I know very few wealthy wedding photographers. Even florists at these weddings get more. I can't believe some people out there think all you have to do to be pro is have a camera and snap away....its a lot of responsiblity to capture those lasting memories in a very uncontrolled environment.
Andy C
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Andy C
grant Harris
Leading Member
How much are reprints really worth? Having changed to digital, miss my medium format gear though, I charge a fixed fee and they get the digital files. I find it better to load the price up front, the amount of work to get reprints and get them sent out is not worth the meagre income these days from reprints.
Any other views on this?
Has anyone tried the new Fuji Pro service to hold albums so people can order their own prints?
Any other views on this?
Has anyone tried the new Fuji Pro service to hold albums so people can order their own prints?
grant Harris
Leading Member
P.S. might worst nightmare was when I did my brother-in-laws wedding free of charge. Was shooting on medium format, got home put the films in a box and in a bag and went upstairs to get something. Came back down to find my two year old with the films wrapped around her. Wife said will they still be OK.
Adrian E227460
Leading Member
Every medium is 'scary'. They can all go wrong sometime, including digital storage (digirot
) - but yeah, you're right at least you get to see what's happening. Sounds like he has a shutter failure...sucks for him.--
Warning: photographs steal your soul!
dilbertdroid2
Forum Enthusiast
Yep, more or less the type of response I expected. If you need a new Mark II I suggest you take out a loan or perhaps start a wedding photography business.
loggerhead
Member
Put your money where your mouth is.
Swifty
Well-known member
Some photographers -rightfully so- ask you to let them know if there is going to be a second or more photographers. If they are then they have to deal with "sharing" time with the other photographers.
I was just setting up a wedding with a photographer and he said that it has happened to him that while he is setting up a ashot the other photographer moves all the people from his setup and both waste time setting up. They preffer to work at their own pace and not trying to see who gets the people in their area so they can shoot.
The photographer told us, if you are going to have someone else fine, just please, in order to do our work well just make sure you can guarantee us at least 15 to 20 minutes for the shots you have requested.
Just so they come out right and not a half ass job
I kind of like that he was upfront about it.
I guess that is a good reason not too have more than one photographer..., at least not working at the same time
I was just setting up a wedding with a photographer and he said that it has happened to him that while he is setting up a ashot the other photographer moves all the people from his setup and both waste time setting up. They preffer to work at their own pace and not trying to see who gets the people in their area so they can shoot.
The photographer told us, if you are going to have someone else fine, just please, in order to do our work well just make sure you can guarantee us at least 15 to 20 minutes for the shots you have requested.
Just so they come out right and not a half ass job
I kind of like that he was upfront about it.
I guess that is a good reason not too have more than one photographer..., at least not working at the same time
Swifty
Well-known member
thank you for that answer
very professional
very professional
Swifty
Well-known member
I am not saying hold them hostage to your prints, but retouch the pictures and put a watermark which says final proot
or something along those lines and you can protect the time you inbested in retouching the images.
And if you want tell them you will give them the pics they choose to have printed on digital format with no water marks
or all of them after you get paid for your prints or charge 100- 150 per cd or something
just a suggestion
or something along those lines and you can protect the time you inbested in retouching the images.
And if you want tell them you will give them the pics they choose to have printed on digital format with no water marks
or all of them after you get paid for your prints or charge 100- 150 per cd or something
just a suggestion
loggerhead
Member
I guess it depends on the guest taking the pictures. I've seen plenty of people taking snaps next to the wedding photographer. Given their equipment and timing their shots shouldn't be much a threat to steal revenue. Everybody smiles for the main guy with his multiple strobes and nice camera. All the other shots are likely to be significantly lower quality.
I definitely understand the time issue, though. As a member of the wedding party it's bad enough waiting for the formals to be taken without having some pushy relative trying to reposition people.
Edward Period
Well-known member
That there is a pre-emptive strike, which doesn't work in arguments/discussions.
Go ahead and take him up on that bet, if you're so sure of yourself.
Brent Plaxton
New member
Have you looked into the imacon digital backs.... you can just unhook your film tray and hook the digital back on.... takes a 13" x 13" - 300 dpi photo in one snap...
lisafx
Veteran Member
bhenning, I can't thank you enough for all this useful information and your generousity in sharing it. I will carefully consider the pros and cons of a la carte vs. packages. Honestly, the hourly rate appeals to me tremendously, at least this early in my "career", since the package pricing is kind of hard to set accuratelly and the times I've done it I have not charged enough. If I charge hourly, at least I know I am getting paid well for my tim.
Thanks again!
Lisa
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Thanks again!
Lisa
--I'm glad you find it helpful
I charge enough not to have to count on print orders. Pretty much
every couple I've talked to wants negatives/digital files... they
feel they are held hostage for prints.
You are right, I don't get as many print orders as if I did not
release digital files, but I charge enough for my time for it not
to be an issue (for me). Also people still tend to order some
prints, as when they compare Wallmart prints to retouched prints of
mine they've seen... they tend to want my prints. Mind you, I also
price the prints lower than people who do not give out negatives,
but I can afford to, as I don't have to recover shooting time costs.
Most of the time, hourly, for an agreed number of hours, with a two
hour minimum at any location (unless I drive directly from one
location to the next and the time is counted as a contigous event).
This fee covers the initial sales meeting, a booking meeting where
we discuss what shots they are looking for, where the wedding will
be etc., the time spent at the wedding as booked, and a followup
meeting where they get the CD's/DVD; and also the time to download
the shots from the camera, toss out the horrible ones, generate a
web page with web sized proofs, and burn the CDs/DVD.
It does NOT include retouching or any prints.
As a rule of thumb, figure on 3h for every hour spent shooting for
meetings, travel, downloading, converting, cd burning.
Most people want some prints; but usually only 8x10 or larger. For
4x6's they go to cheap processors. Frankly, I can't blame them; and
I can't afford to come even close to Sam's/Wallmart pricing for
4x6's as I personally cannot resist at least minimally hand
tweaking images.
I have found that most people don't really get the "a la carte"
approach, so I think I will be starting to emphasize packages for
next year; giving X hours of coverage with a stated number of
retouched prints of specific sizes, and CD's, but not including 4x6
proofs.
I lost a couple of weddings when at the sales call the people loved
the idea of "a la carte" pricing and just paying for my time... but
then tried to get me to throw in a free 4x6 of every frame shot;
which I could not do without significantly raising my hourly rate.
You are most welcome!Thanks for any further info you care to share
Bill
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
David Hughes
Senior Member
I had better luck with this. Walked into a friend's wedding and found I knew the for hire photographer. Had my gear, asked for permission to shoot with her, offered her all the images for her use. I just wanted to flex a new lens.
She said no prob, we worked tandem well all eve. I ended up shooting 450 shots. She shot witha blad and was having to exchange camera backs constantly. She got 70. Later, bride and groom, good friends, saw my images. They were posted 12 hours after the shoot on a web site for family and friends. Remarks came back asking me why I got so many shots, great shots, ala color, composition, variety, etc, while the hire photog got far less and pics were good, but...
Unintended result, so will not do that again. And the bride and groom were just happy to have a ton of high res memories, way more than they had anticipated. Also gave me a chance to see side by side results between film and my cameras, and while I know what I know, still was interesting. The family saw the diff right away.
dh
Take great shots.
Support - http://www.foveonx3.org
Digital Frame - http://www.giphantie.com
Gallery- http://david.oldcolo.com/gallery/sd9
Pbase - http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/david_hughes_sd10
She said no prob, we worked tandem well all eve. I ended up shooting 450 shots. She shot witha blad and was having to exchange camera backs constantly. She got 70. Later, bride and groom, good friends, saw my images. They were posted 12 hours after the shoot on a web site for family and friends. Remarks came back asking me why I got so many shots, great shots, ala color, composition, variety, etc, while the hire photog got far less and pics were good, but...
Unintended result, so will not do that again. And the bride and groom were just happy to have a ton of high res memories, way more than they had anticipated. Also gave me a chance to see side by side results between film and my cameras, and while I know what I know, still was interesting. The family saw the diff right away.
dh
--
Take great shots.
Support - http://www.foveonx3.org
Digital Frame - http://www.giphantie.com
Gallery- http://david.oldcolo.com/gallery/sd9
Pbase - http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/david_hughes_sd10
Edward Period
Well-known member
Why not do it again?
If your equipment is better than another photographer's equipment, why not use it? Why lower yourself to below the other photographer's level?
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