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Dissapointing sports shots w/ d2h

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Fred Braun

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I'm greatly struggling triing to succeed in the area of capturing sharp action shots w/ the d2h. [70-200 vr] I'm finding in bright sunlight that highlights are blown out. The metering w/ my d2h seems to underexpose by at least 2 stops, both in matrix and center weighted. So I add some exposure compensation. Results pretty much suck.

I'm wondering if a neutral density filter would help with the blown highlights. As far as the underexposure problem, what would be a good test? How do I know if the camera has a problem or is the problem behind the viewfinder?

I'm looking for some criticisms. help, suggestions, input, you name it I'll take it.

Kind Regards
Fred









Full EXIF Info
Date/Time 25-Jul-2004 00:52:29
Make Nikon
Model NIKON D2H
Flash Used No
Focal Length 190 mm
Exposure Time 1/2000 sec
Aperture f/2.8
ISO Equivalent
Exposure Bias +1/3
White Balance
Metering Mode center weighted (2)
JPEG Quality (6)
Exposure Program aperture priority (3)
Focus Distance
 
Next time meter off the grass, add +0.3 EC, switch to manual and shoot the game. Pay attantion whether light is changing over the field and compensate accordingly. That way you'll be fine with perfecr exposures with no noise at ISO 200. If you just shoot Aperture/Shutter priority or P you'll get underexposed players and excellent exposed skys. Good luck.
 
Danny Brenner said:
Next time meter off the grass, add +0.3 EC, switch to manual and
shoot the game. Pay attantion whether light is changing over the
field and compensate accordingly. That way you'll be fine with
perfecr exposures with no noise at ISO 200. If you just shoot
Aperture/Shutter priority or P you'll get underexposed players and
excellent exposed skys. Good luck.
Click to expand...
 
Fred Braun said:
I'm greatly struggling triing to succeed in the area of capturing
sharp action shots w/ the d2h. [70-200 vr] I'm finding in bright
sunlight that highlights are blown out. The metering w/ my d2h
seems to underexpose by at least 2 stops, both in matrix and center
weighted. So I add some exposure compensation. Results pretty much
suck.
Click to expand...
Interesting. If you "underexpose by at least 2 stops" you NORMALLY do not get blown out highlights! Just the opposite..... nice highlights and no detail in shadows.

The primary subjects are well exposed. The camera did a good job. The blown out highlights in these image are "normal" - they are small areas of pure white. You accentuated the blown out effect by using an exposure compensation of +1/3 to help boost the detail in the dark parts of the uniforms or shadowed faces.

If you expect to record detail in these highlights (by using a -1/3 or - 2/3 exposure compensation) then you will reduced mid tone and shadow detail. If you shoot in RAW format, additional options are available to help fix up the tone range.

These images seem to be shot with the camera set to normal or high contrast and, judging by the player's shadows, I suspect this was a slightly overcast day for many images. For full sunlight or slight overcast shots, maybe set the camera to low contrast - this will increase the tone range. Any other adjustments for precise tones can be made in Photoshop. Rob Galbraith had previously commented that "auto contrast" sometimes resulted in unexpectedly high image noise - maybe stay away from auto-contrast - but this may have been fixed in the recent firmware update.

The images are "sharp" - looking at the grass, it seems as though the camera focused perfectly on your subject. Your 70-200 is very good at F2.8 however you will get better sharpness if you shoot at F4 or F5.6. Either use aperture priority at F4 or shutter priority at 1/1000 second. If you feel you need very high shutter speeds (1/2000), then bump up your ISO maybe to 400.

Don't get too worried about a small amount of image blur - such as hands or feet in motion. This does not take away from the image quality. You can easily learn to time the peak of action and use shutter speeds as low as 1/500 sec for football and get sharp images. For example, image:
Fred Braun said:
http://www.pbase.com/image/32043673.jpg
Click to expand...
could probably have been shot at 1/500 or even slower and still been perfectly sharp.

I would recommend the following D2H camera setup for this type of event and lighting: low contrast, noise reduction off, shutter priority (1/1000 or 1/1250), ISO 200 or 400 depending on light, centre weighed metering (seems to be more reliable than matrix metering), SRGB colour mode I, white balance auto.

It sounds as though you are on the beginning of the learning curve with digital images. Give yourself some time to discover how things work and experiment a bit (for example, take 10 football shots each at low, normal and high contrast - compare the results). As your knowledge based on practice increases, so will the quality of your images.

tony
http://members.shaw.ca/eclat
 
While metering off the grass it does not matter whether you use CW/ Matrix/Spot metering as long as the grass is evenly exposed to light. I usually set the camera to S mode, set a shutter speed of at least 1/500 to see what aperture I get off the grass at ISO 200. If the aperture is small like f/8.0 I turn to 1/1000 or even 1/2000 untill I get f/4 on my 70-200 . I try not to shoot at f2.8. If there's not enough light I switch to ISO 250 and than to 320 before I set ISO 400. After all that I switch to manual and start shooting the game. If I change position on the field to another spot I perform the metering procedure once again as well as while shooting I constantly take care to watch if light changes due to clouds passing the court from above. With the D2H I always refrain from underexposing as brightening faces with post processing, brings up a lot of noise even at ISO 200.
 
Fred,

I agree with Danny above about using a manual exposure, and using the grass is ok, but I do it differently. First, in bright sunlight, especially mid-day light, set your contrast setting in the camera menu to minus contrast. This will help with the blown highlights. Then get close to a player and shoot just head and shoulders and look at a histogram. Set a perfect manual exposure and, as Danny said, keep track of changes in light, If you use a program mode, in a setting where the luminosity of the background changes depending on your shooting angle, no in-camera meter will be accurate.

--
John Cote
http://www.centralprepress.com

'Cameras are just cr@p we have to lug around because there is no direct brain to printer connection...yet!'
 
I agree about low contrast but metering off a player could be a problem as some could have dark skin while others are white or in between. Metering off grass or gray card yields better overall results. It's true, no in camera meter will be absolutly accurate. that's what post processing is all about. And I shoot only NEF so tweaking the pics is simple and rewardind but time consuming.
 
Fred,

It looks like you have allot of light - shooting moving subjects at f/2.8 often leads to softer images because of the thin band of focus available. In other words - use f/2.8 only when needed. The Exif didn't say what ISO, but I would suggest using the lowest possible ISO, with an f-stop of at least f/4 or higher. The two posts suggesting metering off the grass is a good suggestion. Also set your tone curve to low contrast (you can add it later if needed.)

Good luck.

--
Regards,
Joe H.

PPA
---------------------------------------
http://www.BBSphotography.com
http://www.pbase.com/joeh113
http://www.focusonweddings.com

(Sarcasm Included - some assembly required.)
 
Were these images by perchance processed using Nikon Capture?

Cheers

Peter
Fred Braun said:
I'm greatly struggling triing to succeed in the area of capturing
sharp action shots w/ the d2h. [70-200 vr] I'm finding in bright
sunlight that highlights are blown out. The metering w/ my d2h
seems to underexpose by at least 2 stops, both in matrix and center
weighted. So I add some exposure compensation. Results pretty much
suck.

I'm wondering if a neutral density filter would help with the blown
highlights. As far as the underexposure problem, what would be a
good test? How do I know if the camera has a problem or is the
problem behind the viewfinder?

I'm looking for some criticisms. help, suggestions, input, you name
it I'll take it.

Kind Regards
Fred









Full EXIF Info
Date/Time 25-Jul-2004 00:52:29
Make Nikon
Model NIKON D2H
Flash Used No
Focal Length 190 mm
Exposure Time 1/2000 sec
Aperture f/2.8
ISO Equivalent
Exposure Bias +1/3
White Balance
Metering Mode center weighted (2)
JPEG Quality (6)
Exposure Program aperture priority (3)
Focus Distance
Click to expand...
 
Fred,

I too am suffering blown highlights on D2H pictures

I was very interested to read the others comments. These issues didnt seem to affect me when using the D1X.

cheers,

--
  • Simon, Sydney
 
Hi Peter,

No these were Jpeg. Processed in PS7, Adjusted levels, sharpened, Used FM web prep action, Converted to SRGB.

Fred
PeterDove said:
Cheers

Peter
Fred Braun said:
I'm greatly struggling triing to succeed in the area of capturing
sharp action shots w/ the d2h. [70-200 vr] I'm finding in bright
sunlight that highlights are blown out. The metering w/ my d2h
seems to underexpose by at least 2 stops, both in matrix and center
weighted. So I add some exposure compensation. Results pretty much
suck.

I'm wondering if a neutral density filter would help with the blown
highlights. As far as the underexposure problem, what would be a
good test? How do I know if the camera has a problem or is the
problem behind the viewfinder?

I'm looking for some criticisms. help, suggestions, input, you name
it I'll take it.

Kind Regards
Fred









Full EXIF Info
Date/Time 25-Jul-2004 00:52:29
Make Nikon
Model NIKON D2H
Flash Used No
Focal Length 190 mm
Exposure Time 1/2000 sec
Aperture f/2.8
ISO Equivalent
Exposure Bias +1/3
White Balance
Metering Mode center weighted (2)
JPEG Quality (6)
Exposure Program aperture priority (3)
Focus Distance
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Hi Fred,

If you want to get decent highlight information you will have to use NEF.

Peter
Fred Braun said:
Fred
PeterDove said:
Cheers

Peter
Fred Braun said:
I'm greatly struggling triing to succeed in the area of capturing
sharp action shots w/ the d2h. [70-200 vr] I'm finding in bright
sunlight that highlights are blown out. The metering w/ my d2h
seems to underexpose by at least 2 stops, both in matrix and center
weighted. So I add some exposure compensation. Results pretty much
suck.

I'm wondering if a neutral density filter would help with the blown
highlights. As far as the underexposure problem, what would be a
good test? How do I know if the camera has a problem or is the
problem behind the viewfinder?

I'm looking for some criticisms. help, suggestions, input, you name
it I'll take it.

Kind Regards
Fred









Full EXIF Info
Date/Time 25-Jul-2004 00:52:29
Make Nikon
Model NIKON D2H
Flash Used No
Focal Length 190 mm
Exposure Time 1/2000 sec
Aperture f/2.8
ISO Equivalent
Exposure Bias +1/3
White Balance
Metering Mode center weighted (2)
JPEG Quality (6)
Exposure Program aperture priority (3)
Focus Distance
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Thanks all for some very good advice. I love this forum. You guys are great. I went out today and shot with some new settings. I did have contrast set to normal. I will try low next time.

These shots were metered off the grass. Set camera on manual. Just triied to watch the meter and would adjust aperature when needed. I'm still a little confused that I have a 3000.00 camera, a 1500.00 lense and I'm having to shoot in manual. Still makes me think that the metering system on my camera isn't right.

I have a Nikon Rep comming to town next week I may try to bend his ear.

No one commented on the need for a neutral density filter?? Wonder why?

Thanks
Fred







 
in "APERTURE PRIORITY"??? at f2.8, are you kidding me? All you need to do is shoot in "SHUTTER PRIORITY" and put the metering on "MATRIX". Shoot at 320 or 400 ISO. And thats it, seems to work for me and all of my shooting buddys.
Fred Braun said:
Thanks all for some very good advice. I love this forum. You guys
are great. I went out today and shot with some new settings. I did
have contrast set to normal. I will try low next time.

These shots were metered off the grass. Set camera on manual. Just
triied to watch the meter and would adjust aperature when needed.
I'm still a little confused that I have a 3000.00 camera, a 1500.00
lense and I'm having to shoot in manual. Still makes me think that
the metering system on my camera isn't right.

I have a Nikon Rep comming to town next week I may try to bend his
ear.

No one commented on the need for a neutral density filter?? Wonder
why?

Thanks
Fred







Click to expand...
--



Hookt on Fonix rilly wurkt fer mee!!
 
you can also shoot manual with auto ISO at 200 for outdoors, 640 indoors. Metering will adjust ISO automatically.

"Custom Setting b1: ISO Auto

If On is selected for this option, the camera will automatically adjust sensitivity (ISO equivalency) if the limits of the camera exposure system are

exceeded at the sensitivity selected by the user (exposure modes P, S, and A) or if optimal exposure can not be achieved at the shutter speed and
aperture selected in manual exposure mode." p.180

"Custom Setting b2: ISO Step Value

This option determines whether adjustments to sensitivity (ISO equivalency) are made in increments equivalent to 1/3 EV (1/3 step, the default option), ½ EV (1/2 step), or 1 EV (1 step)." p.181

For indoors helps reduce noise greatly, as camera uses intermediate ISO values that cannot be dialed in manually.

--
no text
 
Fred Braun said:
Thanks all for some very good advice. I love this forum. You guys
are great. I went out today and shot with some new settings. I did
have contrast set to normal. I will try low next time.

These shots were metered off the grass. Set camera on manual. Just
triied to watch the meter and would adjust aperature when needed.
I'm still a little confused that I have a 3000.00 camera, a 1500.00
lense and I'm having to shoot in manual. Still makes me think that
the metering system on my camera isn't right.

I have a Nikon Rep comming to town next week I may try to bend his
ear.

No one commented on the need for a neutral density filter?? Wonder
why?
Click to expand...
The ND filter would seem to me to have the opposite desired effect to me... it would require longer exposures thus blurring your action, right? Unless you look at it as "allowing" longer exposures. When I think ND filter I think daylight fill flash and feathery waterfalls... not sports action.

I think you are struggling wth the bane of sports shooters... the high sun in the sky. The differences in dynamic range make it really tough to get a pleasing shot. You wouldn't think of shooting an outdoor portrait in that light, but you gotta shot events when they happen. For example, I just went to Yahoo and searched today's MLB shots from the wires... I don't consider this shot any worse than the soccer ones you posted earlier:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/040802/483/ans10508020048&e=13&ncid=706

his jersey looks "blown" to me... but it still captures a moment. Here's another:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/040801/483/cali10608012334&e=3&ncid=706

and again, look at Daly's glove:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/040801/ids_photos_sp/r4088235938.jpg&e=7&ncid=706

and finally:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/040801/ids_photos_sp/r635128384.jpg&e=5&ncid=706

All the examples were from pros.... so waddaya gonna do? If the lighting is harsh, ya just follow the advice of the previous posters and try to capture the moment. I believe that sometimes the light is so bad that NO meter can compensate--you just do your best.

As an aside, I helped a friend shoot a barrell racing event and people bought prints from him at the event that I thought weren't my best efforts... but they enjoyed what the shot captured, not the technical merits. And btw, sometimes blur MAKES the shot, if it conveys a sense of speed or power.

Keep shooting... you have great tool there, I am a little envious! ;-)
--
  • hockalees
Pbase supporter http://www.pbase.com/hockalees
 
Iliah Borg said:
For indoors helps reduce noise greatly, as camera uses intermediate
ISO values that cannot be dialed in manually.
Click to expand...
This is what Ron Frank was talking about (will have to search on his thread) but it was his secret to good low light shots and I remember seeing an EXIF ISO of like 1400 or something odd from one of his shots!

It never registered with me that the camera could use intermediate values not selectable by me. WOW!

Kind Regards,

David Anderson
 
IMHO it was Ron Gallegos :)

For me the most important thing is that I choose both aperture and shutter speed and just change the film. Good ol' times :)
--
no text
 
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